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 English Forums - Hardware
 Smartphones and PDAs with built-in GPS
 [TOPIC] HTC Kaiser/TyTn II, 8925/Tilt - Reviewed
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gpspassion

93785 Posts

Posted - 17 sept. 2007 :  20:20:09  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
TESTING - GPS PDAPhone : HTC TyTnII - Kaiser
Qualcomm AGPS - 3G+/HSDPA - WiFi - Keyboard - Geocoded Photos


UPDATED 20080101 - A new tool is available to experiment with the Qualcomm GPS module inside the Kaiser, more details on on page 4 of this topic

UPDATED 20071220 - An interesting USB to USB/Audio out adapter is available at Semsons, see details on on page 4 of this topic

UPDATED 20071123 - Full Review is available on the portal


Kaiser goes for a hike with nonigpsplot

Full review available in the portal >> LINK <<

ORIGINAL POST BY REM : Just got the Kaiser, Great PDA/Phone with integrated GPS. It's not Sirf, it uses a Qualcomm integrated chipset, but it gets 6-10 sats, 4-6 in the house. With their GPS Quickstart prog, it gets sat data via internet via phone or activesync. This speeds acquisition to about 5-10 seconds average.

I'm running iGuidance 4.0 and Google Maps mobile with GPS locator and it's and awesome combination! I can turn the phone off, and back on and the apps just start running again with no hangs.

The phone came bundled with TomTom "Taster" edition with 1 free map download of your choice. I played with it, then deleted it, I prefer iGuidance.

There is a slight bug in that the GPS data stream will pause every once in a while for a few seconds, the Nav app just freezes with a Red Status indicator then continues, but it's not very often maybe once during a 1 hour trip.

Overall 2 thumbs up on this all-in-one phone.

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Edited by - rem on 20 sept. 2007 21:44:46

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gpspassion

93785 Posts

Posted - 18 sept. 2007 :  00:20:29  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Interesting, thanks for sharing. I added a stock picture ;-)

It uses the new Qualcom MSM7200 chip, so hopefully the GPS performance has been improved compared to the MSM6275 used on the HTC P3600 as seen in this comparison. It only had problems in dense urban areas and road navigation software would likely "hide" most of the errors.

Can you give some details on the "GPS Quickstart" program? Is it a separate program or does it launch itself automatically when an app connects to the GPS module? If it's the former then it looks like these other "offline AGPS" solutions (see topic) and will need to be added there. If you can make screenshots that would be great!

I heard the TyTnII was a bit on the "heavy" side due to the complexity of the keyboard design, what do you think? Did you have another PDAPhone before?

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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  08:09:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had the HP hw6945 with integrated GPS briefly but it was unstable and got returned (the PPC was bad, the GPS was good). I then went with a Cingular 8525, aka HTC TyTn/Hermes. It was WM5 based with no integrated GPS, I used Holux BT GPS Rx's with good results on iGuidance 3.1 Thru XDA Forums I learned to flash the phone's OS Rom and went to WM6pro which then pushed me to iGuidance 4 for compatibility. The Kaiser\Tilt\8925\TyTn II is the replacement successor to the 8525 and incorporates all of the wishes from the 8525, faster processor, more memory 128mb, more storage 256mb, smaller, integrated GPS, tilting keyboard, 3 megapixl autofocus! camera (rear), 2nd 640x480 camera for video calls (front).

Fit and finish is excellent, it weighs 190g with battery and feels really good, not heavy to me at all. The tilt display is nice, the GPS is solid so far.

The GPS Quickstart program comes loaded in the programs folder and it has only 3 settings, 1-Remind Me when data expires, 2-Auto download when data expires, 3-Auto download when connected to a PC via activesync. The prog downloads about 6 days of satellite data from the internet to speed the fix and is basically invisible. I believe that when the GPS is turned on by any GPS application, the GPS receiver looks to the data file provided by the quickstart app first so that it doesn't have get this data from the satellites, speeding the acquisition process. The HP 6945 also had this program (I believe that HP 6945 model was OEM'd by HTC, hence the same scheme). I looked at you post topic about A-GPS and that's what this is, TyTn II's QuickGPS screen now only shows how many days are remaining, no more bar graph like the HP's had. Every time I dock the phone to the PC the data is updated, it doesn't wait until the data is expired. I believe if you only use GPRS to update, that it will download only when the data expires.

I have found that I can have several GPS apps open and they all seem to share the GPS information without issue, it just works! If the prog needs to know where the GPS is, you enter Com 4, 4800 baud. Google Maps didn't even need to be configured to find the GPS.

I use my Jawbone BT Headset while driving and can divert all Nav sounds thru it, use the phone while the Map is moving and so far, no hangs!

This is simply the best PDA phone I've seen to date and the integrated GPS made it a must have for me. It was expensive $800, as I didn't wait for the AT&T subsidized version to release (any day now), but I couldn't be happier. This is truely a all-in-one device. I have SlingBox Streaming Video, about 4 Full Length movies, some music, maps of all the US, Canada, Hawaii all on the 4gig micro SDHC card. It's cool :)

Edited by - rem on 20 sept. 2007 08:33:19
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gpspassion

93785 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  09:56:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the details about the agps app, it seems qualcomm have seen the value of offline agps too then! I'll add their version to the list. Could still use some screenshots if you can grab some.

I should get a hold of a test unit at some point and will check to see if the quality of tracking has improved compared to the P3600.
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riuster

139 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  19:10:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just got this phone and cant get the GPS running, I have no clue on how to get this thing running. and how to even manage the internal GPS with the software TOM TOM. Does anyone else have any issues?
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  19:52:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Visit this site, it's a wealth of info on PPC phones, here's the Kaiser section;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376

I loaded the TomTom package from the CD and it worked out of the box. You could check settings, select Built-in GPS and it should work. Check your defaults in Start/Settings/System/External GPS > in that app it should say "Com 4" in the Programs tab. It should say "None" for the GPS hardware port, baud rate "4800". It should have "Manage GPS automatically" Checked in the Access Tab.

When a GPS application starts up the GPS radio, the right hand LED at the top of the phone will begin to blink Amber. You can't turn the GPS on manually, you need a GPS app to open it. On the XDA forum that I mentioned above has links to simple GPS viewer apps (Holux 1.5) that you can load to play with the GPS. You really need to run the Quick GPS app located in the programs folder as well to download the latest Sat data to speed up the initial GPS Fix.

Good Luck!
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  20:33:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's some screen shots, the Quick GPS pages and two shots from a GPS viewer app at initial start and after 10-15 seconds, sitting on my desk indoors.






Edited by - rem on 20 sept. 2007 20:57:45
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gpspassion

93785 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  20:40:14  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's explained here http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14251 ;-)

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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  20:40:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For Dan in the "Should I buy the Kaiser vs 8525" thread. Absolutely, the Kaiser is better in every way. Sell and get the AT&T version which will probably sell for $499! It won't have the front camera, but the GPS should be unlocked to be able to use any GPS software that you want. Check the XDA forum I mention above to keep tabs on the AT&T "Tilt" release and commentary on it's price and performance/features. It should be out any day now.
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gpspassion

93785 Posts

Posted - 21 sept. 2007 :  00:35:30  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the pictures. This is odd, the screens look exactly like those of the other HTC devices that use a...SiRFstarIII chipset (see this article (screens in French) ! I wonder if they didn't end up including one after all, or HTC reused the same applications but downloading from a different spot...or it's the SiRF app and its not functional on the Kaiser's Qualcomm MSM7200 chipset...

The way to test AGPS is to let the GPS module off overnight (or at least 6 hours) and try to get a fix in the morning in an open space. If AGPS works you'll get a fix in 10 seconds if not it will be about 30 seconds.

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Balthazar_B

86 Posts

Posted - 26 sept. 2007 :  03:05:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@rem - According to several stories I've seen, the AT&T 8925/Tilt will sell for somewhat to considerably less than $499 (with a 2-year contract).
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gpspassion

93785 Posts

Posted - 29 sept. 2007 :  15:42:17  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok, so I broke down and got one, I did "need" an HSDPA device after all ;-)
More on that later, but GPS performance is indeed improved compared to the P3600 with the Qualcomm MSM6275, not difficult. I'm still seeing problems with multipath handling though and I haven't found QuickGPS (that indeed taps into Qualcomm servers, not SiRF) to be very effective for fast TTFF, I had the Mio A701 next to it and it locked in 50 seconds vs 12 seconds, might have been 2+ minutes without of course.

On another matter, I'm seeing problems with wifi speed on my Kaiser. It works ok when you're right next to the AP but speed quickly falls as you move away, say 10 meters or walk around the house if you look at the Wifi menu the level quickly falls and the speed drops down to 1Mbps (about 140kbps on dslreports). This is not the case with the old PDAs I have hanging around like the Axim X50, HTC Galaxy, HP 6915 or the Qtek 9000. And yes I pushed the wifi slider all the way left for maximum performance.

I'm suprised that no review (at least those I found) mentioned that or maybe it's my unit that has a problem. The "x" is shot on the keyboard so I need to have it changed, will report back with any improvement. The good news is that HSDPA speed is good, 500+ on dslreports and bursts at 800+ using GPRS Monitor, but that won't help if you're abroad.

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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 29 sept. 2007 :  16:40:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, the AT&T Tilt will be something like $399 with 2 year plan. It does not have the front Cam or free TomTom Taster S/W, or the HTC Home Plug-in which many people like (not me however). There are rumors that they may tie up the GPS to Telenav subscription but no one knows for sure till they surface, perhaps in Oct.

Regarding WiFi, I didn't measure coverage, but I've been using it around the house to stream video via SlingBox Mobile with no issues. Hopefully your's is just a bad one.
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 29 sept. 2007 :  21:10:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's how to to activate the undocumented GPS photo option in Kaiser!
________________________________________

Go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\HTC\Camerain the folder called P9 change the value "enabled" from 0 to 1.

Now if you launch the camera you will find a new menu called "gps photo".

When you shot a photo in this way the TyTN will write the position (lat and long) in the exif data of the photo.


For a free exif reader
http://www.takenet.or.jp/~ryuuji/minisoft/exifread/english/

If you want to simply view the point in google maps:

with exif reader read the coordinates of the photo i.e

GPSLatitudeRef : N
GPSLatitude : 41 0706 [DMS]
GPSLongitudeRef : E
GPSLongitude : 14 5225 [DMS]

Now open google maps and write in "find" the coordinates in this way
41 07' 06'' 14 52' 25''

Google maps show you the point were you have take the photo!


It's called geo tagging in google.
Use the picassa image software from google. if you load the photo's in there, the tool will recognize the coordinates and by following a menu it will bring you to the location in google earth (which you already have of coarse). It shows the photo (and all other photo's geotagged) indexed by picassa in Google earth.
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 29 sept. 2007 :  21:25:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is very Cool! Want to find your lost Kaiser? or track it for fun? This app will silently get a fix and send it to another phone when it receives a special text message.

Check out WIMP (Where Is My Phone) It comes with a 10 day trial period.

http://www.wimp-software.co.uk

I loaded it and gave it a spin. Grabbed my daughter's phone and sent the code to my Kaiser. I then watched the Kaiser wake, spark up the orange GPS indicator for about 20 seconds and within about 1 minute my daughter's phone received the text message with Lat/Lon and Google Map Link. I only wish there were a way to do this from a PC, the google link would be a lot easier to work with.

I purchased the prog. Two Issues;

1 - The Wimp web site asked for my IMEI number but their form accepted all but 2 digits of my code. Their site processed my order and emailed me a s/n code which is now not accepted by the prog. I've got an email in to their support folks.

2 - This prog places an icon in the task bar at the bottom of the screen. I don't like any icons there. Is there a way to get rid of that Icon and allow access to the prog thru an Icon/Link placed in "Settings" or "Programs"?

Other than that, I never would have believed that there could be such a clever and small application!

Edit, Tech support sorted the code by re-issuing a new code based on my full IMEI, their site is new and just getting started. Their response was really quick. Also you can enter the app and select "quit", the app will clear from the task bar, BUT, it will still respond to the code request. After a request, the icon will return to the task bar, hmmm a way to know if you've been "Wimped"

I took the Wimp Fix message with the lat/lon/google link and pasted it into an email that I sent to my PC. When I clicked the Google Map link on my PC it opened a blank map telling me that there was no data at this resolution. I backed the zoom slider 1 notch and there was the arrow, over a satellite photo of my street. The point of the arrow was off the street, exactly pointing where my desk is in my house! I mean this was within a few meters at the most. Wow!



Edited by - rem on 29 sept. 2007 21:26:58
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gpspassion

93785 Posts

Posted - 30 sept. 2007 :  12:41:54  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, WIMP turns a GPS PDAPhone into an SMS tracker and also has safety features in case in gets stolen (SIM card change -> SMS), but won't survive a hard reset.

Nice to see the GPS geocoding tip is back, there is an automated version on modaco (haven't tried it yet) and I'v added the Kaiser to the geocoding guide on the portal.

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