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 English Forums - Hardware
 Smartphones and PDAs with built-in GPS
 [TOPIC] HTC Kaiser/TyTn II, 8925/Tilt - Reviewed
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 17 sept. 2007 :  20:20:09  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
TESTING - GPS PDAPhone : HTC TyTnII - Kaiser
Qualcomm AGPS - 3G+/HSDPA - WiFi - Keyboard - Geocoded Photos


UPDATED 20080101 - A new tool is available to experiment with the Qualcomm GPS module inside the Kaiser, more details on on page 4 of this topic

UPDATED 20071220 - An interesting USB to USB/Audio out adapter is available at Semsons, see details on on page 4 of this topic

UPDATED 20071123 - Full Review is available on the portal


Kaiser goes for a hike with nonigpsplot

Full review available in the portal >> LINK <<

ORIGINAL POST BY REM : Just got the Kaiser, Great PDA/Phone with integrated GPS. It's not Sirf, it uses a Qualcomm integrated chipset, but it gets 6-10 sats, 4-6 in the house. With their GPS Quickstart prog, it gets sat data via internet via phone or activesync. This speeds acquisition to about 5-10 seconds average.

I'm running iGuidance 4.0 and Google Maps mobile with GPS locator and it's and awesome combination! I can turn the phone off, and back on and the apps just start running again with no hangs.

The phone came bundled with TomTom "Taster" edition with 1 free map download of your choice. I played with it, then deleted it, I prefer iGuidance.

There is a slight bug in that the GPS data stream will pause every once in a while for a few seconds, the Nav app just freezes with a Red Status indicator then continues, but it's not very often maybe once during a 1 hour trip.

Overall 2 thumbs up on this all-in-one phone.

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Edited by - rem on 20 sept. 2007 21:44:46

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 18 sept. 2007 :  00:20:29  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Interesting, thanks for sharing. I added a stock picture ;-)

It uses the new Qualcom MSM7200 chip, so hopefully the GPS performance has been improved compared to the MSM6275 used on the HTC P3600 as seen in this comparison. It only had problems in dense urban areas and road navigation software would likely "hide" most of the errors.

Can you give some details on the "GPS Quickstart" program? Is it a separate program or does it launch itself automatically when an app connects to the GPS module? If it's the former then it looks like these other "offline AGPS" solutions (see topic) and will need to be added there. If you can make screenshots that would be great!

I heard the TyTnII was a bit on the "heavy" side due to the complexity of the keyboard design, what do you think? Did you have another PDAPhone before?

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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  08:09:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had the HP hw6945 with integrated GPS briefly but it was unstable and got returned (the PPC was bad, the GPS was good). I then went with a Cingular 8525, aka HTC TyTn/Hermes. It was WM5 based with no integrated GPS, I used Holux BT GPS Rx's with good results on iGuidance 3.1 Thru XDA Forums I learned to flash the phone's OS Rom and went to WM6pro which then pushed me to iGuidance 4 for compatibility. The Kaiser\Tilt\8925\TyTn II is the replacement successor to the 8525 and incorporates all of the wishes from the 8525, faster processor, more memory 128mb, more storage 256mb, smaller, integrated GPS, tilting keyboard, 3 megapixl autofocus! camera (rear), 2nd 640x480 camera for video calls (front).

Fit and finish is excellent, it weighs 190g with battery and feels really good, not heavy to me at all. The tilt display is nice, the GPS is solid so far.

The GPS Quickstart program comes loaded in the programs folder and it has only 3 settings, 1-Remind Me when data expires, 2-Auto download when data expires, 3-Auto download when connected to a PC via activesync. The prog downloads about 6 days of satellite data from the internet to speed the fix and is basically invisible. I believe that when the GPS is turned on by any GPS application, the GPS receiver looks to the data file provided by the quickstart app first so that it doesn't have get this data from the satellites, speeding the acquisition process. The HP 6945 also had this program (I believe that HP 6945 model was OEM'd by HTC, hence the same scheme). I looked at you post topic about A-GPS and that's what this is, TyTn II's QuickGPS screen now only shows how many days are remaining, no more bar graph like the HP's had. Every time I dock the phone to the PC the data is updated, it doesn't wait until the data is expired. I believe if you only use GPRS to update, that it will download only when the data expires.

I have found that I can have several GPS apps open and they all seem to share the GPS information without issue, it just works! If the prog needs to know where the GPS is, you enter Com 4, 4800 baud. Google Maps didn't even need to be configured to find the GPS.

I use my Jawbone BT Headset while driving and can divert all Nav sounds thru it, use the phone while the Map is moving and so far, no hangs!

This is simply the best PDA phone I've seen to date and the integrated GPS made it a must have for me. It was expensive $800, as I didn't wait for the AT&T subsidized version to release (any day now), but I couldn't be happier. This is truely a all-in-one device. I have SlingBox Streaming Video, about 4 Full Length movies, some music, maps of all the US, Canada, Hawaii all on the 4gig micro SDHC card. It's cool :)

Edited by - rem on 20 sept. 2007 08:33:19
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  09:56:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the details about the agps app, it seems qualcomm have seen the value of offline agps too then! I'll add their version to the list. Could still use some screenshots if you can grab some.

I should get a hold of a test unit at some point and will check to see if the quality of tracking has improved compared to the P3600.
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riuster

139 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  19:10:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just got this phone and cant get the GPS running, I have no clue on how to get this thing running. and how to even manage the internal GPS with the software TOM TOM. Does anyone else have any issues?
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  19:52:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Visit this site, it's a wealth of info on PPC phones, here's the Kaiser section;
http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=376

I loaded the TomTom package from the CD and it worked out of the box. You could check settings, select Built-in GPS and it should work. Check your defaults in Start/Settings/System/External GPS > in that app it should say "Com 4" in the Programs tab. It should say "None" for the GPS hardware port, baud rate "4800". It should have "Manage GPS automatically" Checked in the Access Tab.

When a GPS application starts up the GPS radio, the right hand LED at the top of the phone will begin to blink Amber. You can't turn the GPS on manually, you need a GPS app to open it. On the XDA forum that I mentioned above has links to simple GPS viewer apps (Holux 1.5) that you can load to play with the GPS. You really need to run the Quick GPS app located in the programs folder as well to download the latest Sat data to speed up the initial GPS Fix.

Good Luck!
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  20:33:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's some screen shots, the Quick GPS pages and two shots from a GPS viewer app at initial start and after 10-15 seconds, sitting on my desk indoors.






Edited by - rem on 20 sept. 2007 20:57:45
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  20:40:14  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's explained here http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14251 ;-)

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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2007 :  20:40:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For Dan in the "Should I buy the Kaiser vs 8525" thread. Absolutely, the Kaiser is better in every way. Sell and get the AT&T version which will probably sell for $499! It won't have the front camera, but the GPS should be unlocked to be able to use any GPS software that you want. Check the XDA forum I mention above to keep tabs on the AT&T "Tilt" release and commentary on it's price and performance/features. It should be out any day now.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 21 sept. 2007 :  00:35:30  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the pictures. This is odd, the screens look exactly like those of the other HTC devices that use a...SiRFstarIII chipset (see this article (screens in French) ! I wonder if they didn't end up including one after all, or HTC reused the same applications but downloading from a different spot...or it's the SiRF app and its not functional on the Kaiser's Qualcomm MSM7200 chipset...

The way to test AGPS is to let the GPS module off overnight (or at least 6 hours) and try to get a fix in the morning in an open space. If AGPS works you'll get a fix in 10 seconds if not it will be about 30 seconds.

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Balthazar_B

86 Posts

Posted - 26 sept. 2007 :  03:05:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@rem - According to several stories I've seen, the AT&T 8925/Tilt will sell for somewhat to considerably less than $499 (with a 2-year contract).
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 29 sept. 2007 :  15:42:17  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok, so I broke down and got one, I did "need" an HSDPA device after all ;-)
More on that later, but GPS performance is indeed improved compared to the P3600 with the Qualcomm MSM6275, not difficult. I'm still seeing problems with multipath handling though and I haven't found QuickGPS (that indeed taps into Qualcomm servers, not SiRF) to be very effective for fast TTFF, I had the Mio A701 next to it and it locked in 50 seconds vs 12 seconds, might have been 2+ minutes without of course.

On another matter, I'm seeing problems with wifi speed on my Kaiser. It works ok when you're right next to the AP but speed quickly falls as you move away, say 10 meters or walk around the house if you look at the Wifi menu the level quickly falls and the speed drops down to 1Mbps (about 140kbps on dslreports). This is not the case with the old PDAs I have hanging around like the Axim X50, HTC Galaxy, HP 6915 or the Qtek 9000. And yes I pushed the wifi slider all the way left for maximum performance.

I'm suprised that no review (at least those I found) mentioned that or maybe it's my unit that has a problem. The "x" is shot on the keyboard so I need to have it changed, will report back with any improvement. The good news is that HSDPA speed is good, 500+ on dslreports and bursts at 800+ using GPRS Monitor, but that won't help if you're abroad.

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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 29 sept. 2007 :  16:40:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, the AT&T Tilt will be something like $399 with 2 year plan. It does not have the front Cam or free TomTom Taster S/W, or the HTC Home Plug-in which many people like (not me however). There are rumors that they may tie up the GPS to Telenav subscription but no one knows for sure till they surface, perhaps in Oct.

Regarding WiFi, I didn't measure coverage, but I've been using it around the house to stream video via SlingBox Mobile with no issues. Hopefully your's is just a bad one.
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 29 sept. 2007 :  21:10:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's how to to activate the undocumented GPS photo option in Kaiser!
________________________________________

Go to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\HTC\Camerain the folder called P9 change the value "enabled" from 0 to 1.

Now if you launch the camera you will find a new menu called "gps photo".

When you shot a photo in this way the TyTN will write the position (lat and long) in the exif data of the photo.


For a free exif reader
http://www.takenet.or.jp/~ryuuji/minisoft/exifread/english/

If you want to simply view the point in google maps:

with exif reader read the coordinates of the photo i.e

GPSLatitudeRef : N
GPSLatitude : 41 0706 [DMS]
GPSLongitudeRef : E
GPSLongitude : 14 5225 [DMS]

Now open google maps and write in "find" the coordinates in this way
41 07' 06'' 14 52' 25''

Google maps show you the point were you have take the photo!


It's called geo tagging in google.
Use the picassa image software from google. if you load the photo's in there, the tool will recognize the coordinates and by following a menu it will bring you to the location in google earth (which you already have of coarse). It shows the photo (and all other photo's geotagged) indexed by picassa in Google earth.
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 29 sept. 2007 :  21:25:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This is very Cool! Want to find your lost Kaiser? or track it for fun? This app will silently get a fix and send it to another phone when it receives a special text message.

Check out WIMP (Where Is My Phone) It comes with a 10 day trial period.

http://www.wimp-software.co.uk

I loaded it and gave it a spin. Grabbed my daughter's phone and sent the code to my Kaiser. I then watched the Kaiser wake, spark up the orange GPS indicator for about 20 seconds and within about 1 minute my daughter's phone received the text message with Lat/Lon and Google Map Link. I only wish there were a way to do this from a PC, the google link would be a lot easier to work with.

I purchased the prog. Two Issues;

1 - The Wimp web site asked for my IMEI number but their form accepted all but 2 digits of my code. Their site processed my order and emailed me a s/n code which is now not accepted by the prog. I've got an email in to their support folks.

2 - This prog places an icon in the task bar at the bottom of the screen. I don't like any icons there. Is there a way to get rid of that Icon and allow access to the prog thru an Icon/Link placed in "Settings" or "Programs"?

Other than that, I never would have believed that there could be such a clever and small application!

Edit, Tech support sorted the code by re-issuing a new code based on my full IMEI, their site is new and just getting started. Their response was really quick. Also you can enter the app and select "quit", the app will clear from the task bar, BUT, it will still respond to the code request. After a request, the icon will return to the task bar, hmmm a way to know if you've been "Wimped"

I took the Wimp Fix message with the lat/lon/google link and pasted it into an email that I sent to my PC. When I clicked the Google Map link on my PC it opened a blank map telling me that there was no data at this resolution. I backed the zoom slider 1 notch and there was the arrow, over a satellite photo of my street. The point of the arrow was off the street, exactly pointing where my desk is in my house! I mean this was within a few meters at the most. Wow!



Edited by - rem on 29 sept. 2007 21:26:58
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 30 sept. 2007 :  12:41:54  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, WIMP turns a GPS PDAPhone into an SMS tracker and also has safety features in case in gets stolen (SIM card change -> SMS), but won't survive a hard reset.

Nice to see the GPS geocoding tip is back, there is an automated version on modaco (haven't tried it yet) and I'v added the Kaiser to the geocoding guide on the portal.

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the-uki

France
9 Posts

Posted - 02 oct. 2007 :  09:45:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can someone extract the Kaiser / Tytn II quickfix program and post it, so we can try it on the Trinity?
thanks!
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swiftytom

2 Posts

Posted - 03 oct. 2007 :  15:14:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello, I'm thinking about buying this great smartphone, GPS being the #1 feature for me. But I read on some forums that it can't really be used for pedestrian navigation or geocaching, because it can't disable static navigation. Is it true? I would use it mainly to navigate around city on foot, and if that can't be done...
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Balthazar_B

86 Posts

Posted - 04 oct. 2007 :  18:41:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So the current pricing on the Kaiser (Tilt) from AT&T is $299 (with a 2-year contract):

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/10/04/the-atandt-tilt-october-5-for-299-99/

Pretty aggressive for a device with these features...
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 04 oct. 2007 :  23:36:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have no idea what "static navigation" is, I don't see why this would not work with most any GPS application.

Regarding Tilt Pricing, $299 is a STEAL for this phone, I paid full bore $850 for my TyTN II with no regrets, it's that good.
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swiftytom

2 Posts

Posted - 05 oct. 2007 :  09:18:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Static navigation = the GPS won't update your position if you move slowly (<4 km/h). Big problem for geocaching, smaller problem for pedestrian navigation.
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Record1

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 05 oct. 2007 :  15:40:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ATT Tilt came up on the business web sight this morning. Should be Available everywhere next week. Going to order today or Monday.I think I'm going to wait for OCN 8 to come out in Nov or Dec. rather than getting TomTom. Looks like the update will be great. Finally adding text to speech, and saving preplanned routes.

ATT Tilt, OCN 8
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usnrrn

USA
2 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2007 :  17:08:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Question about the AT&T 8925 version of GPS. So is the GPS based on the AT&T subsription or can you use the Tom Tom software?
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Record1

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 09 oct. 2007 :  00:24:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Gps on the ATT Tilt is not locked to Telnav (that's the service Att wants to try to sell you.) Everybody that has used TomTom says it runs great.

ATT Tilt, OCN 8
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Record1

USA
13 Posts

Posted - 09 oct. 2007 :  00:25:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just recieved my Tilt today. Charging.....

ATT Tilt, OCN 8
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chop69

9 Posts

Posted - 09 oct. 2007 :  21:44:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by swiftytom

Hello, I'm thinking about buying this great smartphone, GPS being the #1 feature for me. But I read on some forums that it can't really be used for pedestrian navigation or geocaching, because it can't disable static navigation. Is it true? I would use it mainly to navigate around city on foot, and if that can't be done...



This explains why I never "stop" and why GPS Viewer doesn't show any data when still. On iGuidance, when I come to a stop, it still says I'm going 2-3mph.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 10 oct. 2007 :  00:37:09  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hum...it looks like SiRF's "Static Navigation" setting (see this guide) is being used for every GPS device out there now, but you defined what you meant. I haven't seen any problems so far in pedestrian use even under tree cover as can be seen in the picture on the first page so it's really unfair to compare it to SiRF's "static navigation". I just checked specifically for movements when being still indoors with nonigpsplot and it position is definitely not frozen, there are no big jumps as with a SiRFstarIII, so there must be some filtering but it doesn't appear to be "destructive".

In other news, I should be done with my testing by the end of the week, but so far so good, accuracy is way improved compared to the Trinity and A-GPS helps a lot to get started in the morning (i.e. a "warm start" technically) with 8/10 seconds vs 12/18 seconds on the SiRFstarIII based A701, that's with an open view.



Here are some preliminary test results : TTFF - Data Transfer - Camera - Battery Life, etc...


HP 6915, Kaiser and Mio A701


Indoors the Kaiser doesn't hold the fix as well as the SS3/A701 or the Skytraq (BT GPS connected to 6915)


TTFF testing vs the Mio A701, both have Offline AGPS. With a good view (obtained via reradiating antennat) 8/10 seconds for the Kaised, 12/18 for the A701.


3G+ speed : 450kbps vs 300 with 3G on Orange France, lower than what others are seeing in the US


but "bursts" up to 850 according to GPRS Monitor


Battery Life limited to 3 hours in intensive 3G+ (left) or WiFi (middle) use
GPS does better with Full BL at 4 hours (right)



FX100 on the left (zoomed as it has a 28mmm) and Kaiser on the right
Poor picture quality at 3MP and it doesn't seem to be "native" with the pixels



The full scene in VGA
Hard to compete with a 28mm camera but the result is decent



Photo Geocoding is possible (see below)


Nice rendering with Noni GPSPlot


Stay tuned for more, so far so good!

Those who already have their Kaiser should check out the Kaiser section of Xda-Dev and I highly recommend the KaiserTweak app that contains all the known tweaks including the "GPS Photo" mode.

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rsj9966

1 Posts

Posted - 11 oct. 2007 :  21:11:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone have any idea about the size of the offline AGPS file sent for the QuickGPS?

Has anyone looked at the effect of position error over time with the 7 day file? I must imagine that it becomes useless for turn by turn directions after a couple of days.
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ypiwafe

USA
37 Posts

Posted - 11 oct. 2007 :  23:50:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can someone comment on the screen visibility? I want to get one but heard people saying it's not transreflective and horrible to read outside. So, how does it compare to Mio A701, HP 6945 or HTC Hermes? ... Some pics to compare them will be nice. thanks.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 12 oct. 2007 :  00:57:12  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well there hasn't been a real transflective screen on a PDA since the...iPaq 36/37/38xx in 2001 so I wouldn't worry about that too much. Legibility outside is ok, I had no problems using it this afternoon on a bright day.

@rsj9966 - it's about 40KB. Position error is difficult to measure because the synthetic ephemeris data quickly gets replaced by live ephemeris data as it gets downloaded unless of course you're in a GPS hostile environment where they can't be downloaded, but then you probably would have a hard time getting a fix anyway.

I walked around somm small streets in Paris today and other than getting a fast 20s warm fix, I was disappointed as I didn't get very useful guidance using TomTom's 2D/North Up mode, I'll need to analyze the logs to see what might have happened and will take the Mio A701 with SiRFstarIII next monday to see if it does better.

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 13 oct. 2007 :  00:59:27  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here are some tracks I recorded yesterday while using the Kaiser on foot in Paris. In yellow the actual trip, in red or purple the track logged by the Kaiser.

Accuracy is not always very good, hence the problems getting useful guidance with TomTom, but we should keep in mind that GPS use in pedestrian mode is a challenge for any receiver in dense urban areas. The good news is that I got a warm fix in 20 seconds, thanks to AGPS, but it's possible that the Qualcomm software favors TTFF speed over accuracy, which will make most users happy as speed is easier to measure than accuracy. Even in an open area (third capture) the track was quite far from the actual one I followed.

The comparison with a SiRFstarIII datalogger in the bottom shows that the Kaiser does actually perform quite well compared to the competition. I'll do some more testing in Paris on Monday with the SiRFstarIII Mio A701 PDAPhone.





Compared to a SiRFstarIII Datalogger

Kaiser in red Datalogger in green


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danjb

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 18 oct. 2007 :  23:14:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I experimented with the Tilt today for geocaching (using CacheMate/CacheNav, as well as NoniGPSPlot), and found some odd behavior that made it very difficult to use for this activity. Not sure if this is just my setup or a general issue. It does get a 3D fix very quickly.

However I found if your speed dropped below a steady walking pace for long (such as when you are deciding how to get through some underbrush), the Tilt GPS would go into some mode where it would stop accurate reporting of small/short/slow movements. The speed reading on CacheNav would essentially freeze (showing say 1.5mph even when you're standing still, or running), as well as direction to cache, regardless of direction you move in. Distance would drift by a foot at a time in a random manner, unrelated to your own movements. The only way to clear this was to walk briskly (say 3+mph) in one direction for about a minute, at which point the GPS would start reading normally again, at least until you slow down or stop for any period of time. During these "locked" periods it still said it had a 3D fix.

This makes it very difficult to do the "geocaching shuffle" of trying to narrow in on ground zero in difficult to navigate terrain where you need to move slowly. I have a BT GlobalSat 338 GPS which does not have this problem if I use it from the same Tilt/CacheNav rather than the built-in Tilt-GPS. I also have a handheld Garmin unit which of course doesn't have the problem.

I'm hopeful maybe it is just some software incompatability between the Tilt GPS and CacheNav, or is maybe some setting of the Tilt GPS I can tweak. Maybe it goes into power saving mode if you hold still for long, and only wakes up when you move a couple hundred feet in a direction. This would be ok for car navigation, but makes this kind of walking navigation tough.

Does anyone have any idea what this might be, or how I might further diagnose / work around it? Thanks for any suggestions.

- Dan from Flower Mound, TX
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 19 oct. 2007 :  00:38:09  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There is clearly some filtering going on as seen in the logged tracks on the previous page and this it becomes more aggressive as the conditions degrade, i.e. when the signal level goes down in dense urban environments or if you hold the Kaiser "too deep" in your hand, I see a big difference in signal level if my hand goes up to the camera in the back or two inches lower, the antenna must be somewhere in the middle or on the side.

It's one thing to use AGPS to speed up the fix, but for accuracy there's no known workaround for a large patch antenna like the one used on your BT338, a lot of users of the "thin" AIOs are starting to find that out too.

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jerryk

93 Posts

Posted - 19 oct. 2007 :  17:38:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you own a Tilt, you should try Microsoft new Live search application. It now features voice recognition. Coupled with the Tilt's GPS this a great combination. For example, you are walking down the street and hungry for Mexican food. You launch the app and say "Mexican Restaurant" and it will display the locations nearby and provided directions, and a link to the phone number so you can see if they have a table available. Very nice!

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 19 oct. 2007 :  17:42:07  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sounds interesting indeed, here is the direct link http://wls.live.com

Here's another "natural" for the Kaiser, Locr's new WM geotagging application, details >> HERE <<.

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daniel

17 Posts

Posted - 19 oct. 2007 :  18:58:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@danjb - Seems to have filtering at low speed like chipset MTK. It has normally nothing to do with your issue, but you may try workaround given here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=330634&page=4 with GPSGate. It's a shareware but you can use it during 14 days, it's sufficient to see if it solves your issue or not ? I guess no but perhaps it's worth trying !?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 19 oct. 2007 :  19:20:14  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Why not, but I for one have not seen any of the "data burst" problems that the OP of that thread says GPSGate fixes and there's no way an "add-on" can fix something that comes from the "core" GPS software/firmware ;-)

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jerryk

93 Posts

Posted - 20 oct. 2007 :  18:29:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone know if there is an adapter for the external GPS port on the tilt? The MCX plug is the end you usually see on the external antennas cable. So your antenna cable needs to have a different end or there needs to be an adapter.

Edited by - jerryk on 20 oct. 2007 19:10:57
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 oct. 2007 :  01:51:10  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well there is something but it's one of those exotic SSMB connector it seems, can't see too many situations where I'd need one though, an antenna is mostly useful for acquisition and this is taken care of with offline AGPS.

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jerryk

93 Posts

Posted - 24 oct. 2007 :  03:11:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
NO NEED TO QUOTE A MESSAGE DIRECTLY ABOVE YOURS, SERVER SAYS THANKS ;-) GPSPASSION TEAM
So you don't think an external antenna will help the reception of the GPS? I find that if anything blocks a direct sky view, the GPS loses signal.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 24 oct. 2007 :  03:40:48  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Really ? I've found to have excellent tracking sensitiviy while driving, as good as SiRFstarIII (should have a comparison article ready soon), it even holds a lock in my basement. Do you maybe have a coated windhshield? An antenna might help for pedestrian use but then that's not going to be very practical ;-)

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jerryk

93 Posts

Posted - 26 oct. 2007 :  21:02:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes,

My reception is very spotty. My Nuvi 680 seems to work fine. But the Tilt has a lot of problems.

Do you have BT enabled on you Tilt/Kaiser? I wonder if that causes a problem?


Edited by - jerryk on 26 oct. 2007 21:25:59
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 27 oct. 2007 :  18:59:24  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From time to time yes, haven't noticed any interference. How are you placing your Kaiser? I'm still not sure how the GPS antenna is designed, patch, wire...If I hold the Kaiser in my hand up to the camera lens the signal level drops dramatically and could cause tracking issues.

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Robert_H

6 Posts

Posted - 28 oct. 2007 :  17:51:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On GPS and its reception, I just tried it with VisualGPSce and a Wi-Fi connection. I struggled a bit with the GUI. The GPS is built-in, but VisualGPSce does not show the chipset maker. The fix took a few seconds, but was rather precise. I understand from other forums that the quality of the reception depends on where you put your hands: one must not touch the area of the antenna, which is located around the GPS external connector; if you touch it when the GPS is on, the antenna is jammed and you get bad performance (slow fix, false position).

I am looking for a GPS utility that, in addition to VisualGPSce's data, also shows the chipset maker, the chipset model, the number of channels, and if it is A-GPS or not. To avoid struggling with the GUI, it would be nice to also trigger one of various navigators (TomTom, GoogleMaps, etc.) from this single utility. I know I am asking for the moon here, but the technology is already in place. A smart list of GPS utilities would do... :-)

Bob
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 30 oct. 2007 :  02:24:19  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There is no such "utility" as far as I know, in fact there is no utility for Qualcomm based receivers I'm aware of, too bad as it would be interesting to force warm resets without having to wait 4+ hours.

I think the antenna is a "wire" that goes around the device to the "less" you hold the Kaiser the higher the signal level for the chipset and the better the accuracy. Having said that with a current AGPS file this becomes less crucial as the ephemeris data does not need to be downloaded from the satellites to get a fix, more about that here.

I've just finished my lengthy comparisons with the SiRFstarIII equipped Mio A501 and unless you need your GPS PDAPhone for accurate pedestrian guidance on trails (IMHO you're better off with a handheld GPS like a Garmin), the Kaiser's GPS performance will be quite satisfactory. Here is screenshot where the Kaiser only really trails the A501 in underground passages, what could be called "torture" testing. It performs much better than the previous Qualcomm equipped GPS, the HTC P3600, see this comparison.




Can't beat side by side testing !


Signal level analysis with the (likely) wire/PIFA antenna of the Kaiser feeding less GPS signal to the chip than the 12x12 patch antenna of the Mio A501. Otherwise, the numbers are equally good

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jerryk

93 Posts

Posted - 30 oct. 2007 :  04:54:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

From time to time yes, haven't noticed any interference. How are you placing your Kaiser? I'm still not sure how the GPS antenna is designed, patch, wire...If I hold the Kaiser in my hand up to the camera lens the signal level drops dramatically and could cause tracking issues.



When I walk and look at the phone in the palm of my hand that could cover the camera. When I have it in the car it is on a cradle mounted to the A/C vent. (Here in California windshield mounts are illegal.) In both cases the satellite reception level is not great. The Nuvi 680 is on another vent mount next to the Kaiser and does a better job. But its antenna is pointing right to the sky.

jerry

Edited by - jerryk on 02 nov. 2007 18:21:47
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 30 oct. 2007 :  11:26:37  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well as you can see from my testing, the antenna is weaker than on competing devices, but with a current AGPS file you really shouldn't be having problems as it tracks down very low. There might be something wrong with your device.

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jerryk

93 Posts

Posted - 07 nov. 2007 :  01:10:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
With some further testing it looks like the GPS unit is working OK. I took a 60 mile trip today with the Tilt next to the Nuvi 680. The Tilt matched the Nuvi turn for turn. The only strange things were related to the OCN6 software (why is the default scale about 20 feet?).

jerry
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 nov. 2007 :  19:44:39  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Full review is available on the portal http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=237 ;-)

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 20 déc. 2007 :  11:29:25  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Just got a neat accessory for my HTC Kaiser (and Touch Dual too), an audio/USB adapter :

it lets you use any headphones thanks to the standard 3.5mm audio jack and preserves access to USB for connection to a PC or a charger. All for the low price of $5 at Semsons. This is what it looks like on the Kaiser and TD :


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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 01 janv. 2008 :  19:25:05  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
To start the new year on a high note here is a Qualcomm GPS Tool (found on XDA dev) to experiment with the GPS module inside the Kaiser. Mostly interesting for its ability to send cold/warm/hot/agps start commands. Copy the 3 files to the windows directory and click on GPSTool0813.exe.

I've used it without making any damage but as usual this is to be used under your sole responsibility ;-)

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 13 janv. 2008 :  19:56:52  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Feeling a bit lonely here ;-)

For those who want to see the guts of there Kaiser without pulling it apart : HTC_Kaiser_disassembly, a 1.7Mb pdf found on XDA-Dev. Haven't spotted the GPS antenna, can you ?

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Bartman_x50v

42 Posts

Posted - 15 janv. 2008 :  12:59:02  Show Profile  Visit Bartman_x50v's Homepage  Reply with Quote
hi gpspassion
In conclusion you write:
"...The results are mixed with lower performance in pedestrian use..."



but if i look the immage seems that Kaiser is better on pedestrian use and not in car use.

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 15 janv. 2008 :  14:13:19  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No as you will see in car use and as I commented in detail, it only has problems in covered/underground sections, the rest is fine, in pedestrian mode it is always lagging/off. Remember that in the pedestrian example you took above, static navigation is ACTIVATED on the Mio A501, again, check out the detailed comments;

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jerryk

93 Posts

Posted - 15 janv. 2008 :  17:59:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

Feeling a bit lonely here ;-)

For those who want to see the guts of there Kaiser without pulling it apart : HTC_Kaiser_disassembly, a 1.7Mb pdf found on XDA-Dev. Haven't spotted the GPS antenna, can you ?



Isn't the antenna the metal strip coming off the jack in the second image? It looks like it would be on the top of the phone when held to the ear.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 15 janv. 2008 :  18:54:10  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Let's take a look, you mean this :



Quite possibly, but where would the GSM antenna be then, or maybe it's share. That would certainly explain the difficulty in getting a good signal compared to a patch antenna, even a 12x12 like the one used onthe Mio A701 or Mio A501.I wonder if they were able to fit one of these on the HTC Touch Cruise, probably not.

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Bartman_x50v

42 Posts

Posted - 16 janv. 2008 :  13:38:03  Show Profile  Visit Bartman_x50v's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

No as you will see in car use and as I commented in detail, it only has problems in covered/underground sections, the rest is fine, in pedestrian mode it is always lagging/off. Remember that in the pedestrian example you took above, static navigation is ACTIVATED on the Mio A501, again, check out the detailed comments;



Ok.
Tkx
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malvindo

Indonesia
2 Posts

Posted - 06 mars 2008 :  09:13:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I added a stock picture ;-)

It uses the new Qualcom MSM7200 chip, so hopefully the GPS performance has been improved compared to the MSM6275 used on the HTC P3600 as seen in this comparison. It only had problems in dense urban areas and road navigation software would likely "hide" most of the errors.

Can you give some details on the "GPS Quickstart" program? Is it a separate program or does it launch itself automatically when an app connects to the GPS module? If it's the former then it looks like these other "offline AGPS" solutions (see topic) and will need to be added there. If you can make screenshots that would be great!

I heard the TyTnII was a bit on the "heavy" side due to the complexity of the keyboard design, what do you think? Did you have another PDAPhone before?



A GPS too,
performance wise (accuracy n TTFF)
can compare to Global Locate's A GPS @ hw65xx ?
which better? this Qualcom or Global Locate?


hi
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 06 mars 2008 :  11:01:57  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You mean just the AGPS part? A bit difficult to do. As you can see from the comparisons in the articles though, the MSM7200 appears to be more sensitivie than the "old" GL-20000 so TTFF is faster, generally speaking.

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Shinare

71 Posts

Posted - 14 mai 2008 :  22:40:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just bought my daughter a Tilt and wanted to put a GPS software on it. Could someone please recommend to me a good software for it and where I might purchase it? Thanks.

Mio C320, version MioMap V3.3
Firmware: R40+3+9904+0720
Jerry skin DATA 2008.05.12 + Data override
Miopocket 4.0 r66
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 15 mai 2008 :  02:31:46  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Depends on where you are located, in the US iGuidance is a favorite, in Europe that would be TomTom, and you can get them from our friends at semsons.com ;-)

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Shinare

71 Posts

Posted - 15 mai 2008 :  15:03:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, I'm in the US. I'll check out iGuidance for her. She needs something simnple to use but still functional.

Mio C320, version MioMap V3.3
Firmware: R40+3+9904+0720
Jerry skin DATA 2008.05.12 + Data override
Miopocket 4.0 r66
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TzouR

93 Posts

Posted - 29 juil. 2008 :  18:43:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Could someone please confirm the GPS settings (COM # and Baud rate) for IGuidance v4 installed in Tilt to ensure the use of QuickGPS (A-GPS)?

For Eten X500, the settings in my unit are COM2 in Programs, COM4 and 57600 in Hardware, and Managed GPS automatically checked in External GPS. Within Iguidance, Tools->GPS options, in addition, COM7 and 57600 Baud rate are set to utilize A-GPS. What are these settings in Tilt?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 30 juil. 2008 :  02:37:08  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You want to use COM4/4800 normally.

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TzouR

93 Posts

Posted - 30 juil. 2008 :  03:00:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks much, gpspassion. I will use Com4/4800 in both External GPS and IG settings.
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morimoto

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 24 oct. 2008 :  17:08:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello, thanks for the great review of the 8925. I had some questions. Here at work we are looking for a good tracker software that could track people on foot or cars driving in very remote areas of the world. The purpose would be to allow others to be able to retrace the steps. In the review I noticed some nice tracking maps and was wondering what software was used? Also what software would you recommend to use with offline Google maps and/or scanned in maps. This is for a largely nontechnical user base.

Thanks!
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 24 oct. 2008 :  19:00:33  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the forums.
"Tracking" generally means "live tracking" wit the position uploaded to a server, doesn't seem you want to do that? In that case a nice app would be the free NoniGPS would do the trick and you can Google or scanned maps.
For live tracking : http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=101188

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