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 Mobile XT Vs. nüvi - You Decide
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 14 août 2006 :  21:22:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All,

I've put together a "work in progress" document comparing the user interface in the nüvi 350/360 with the one in Garmin's new Mobile XT Pocket PC/Smartphone application. The document focuses on the user interface elements in Mobile XT that are missing from the nüvi.

Currently the document has well over 100 full color screen shots taken from the Mobile XT application running on my VGA-based Dell Axim X51v Pocket PC (hence it's large size). Therefore, the document can also be somewhat viewed as a review for the new Mobile XT application as well.

I'll continue to update the document over the next few days (e.g. with the live traffic features, etc.) as my time permits.

I hope you enjoy it.

-- MIKE

Edit: Sorry guys... I've had to remove the document from my site as it's killing my bandwidth. If anyone else wants to host it, please feel free to do so.

Edited by - TheOfficeMaven on 22 août 2006 16:23:56

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Taz-Man

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 14 août 2006 :  22:33:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike,

Great info. I knew Garmin really blew it on the Nuvi in the UI area. This is more like what the Nuvi should have been! Thanks for all the effort you put into compiling this info. This is the level of detail I want and need in the Nuvi not the dumbed down interface they gave it! There are many things I've grown to like about the Nuvi but the lack of user control and info it gives me is truling hurting my user experience.

Now if Garmin would just get it and update the Nuvi. Heck I'd even be willing to pay a few $$$ to upgrade the UI. I don't want to go back to having a PDA and carrying a GPS receiver and all the clutter that entails and it is a PITA on a bicycle too.
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RedRover1

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 15 août 2006 :  01:47:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agree I think the nuvi is way too dumbed down, but with record sales of the nuvi I don't think that Garmin feels they need to do anything. Our only hope is if existing owners keep bugging them on it.

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Taz-Man

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 15 août 2006 :  04:26:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sure it keeps selling because the idiot news media has no clue about GPS units. Most of the reviews gush about this or that yet it is seriously lacking some features or functions that should be enable in the user interface. I've read a lot of the Nuvi reports on mags like PC World and it almost makes me want to choke. So much of their focus seems to be on the OTHER things like the dictionary, MP3 player, etc. I am not buying an MP3 player but a GPS that does routing. So many of the features seem to have been gutted and it is really REALLY sad. I really hope Garmin wises up soon. I'd give it 6 out of 10 points. It could have been a 9 with some tweaking. The Mobile XT interface would have helped it alot. If they can put it on a cheap PPC handheld then they should easily be able to port it to the Nuvi. So Garmin, when are you going to wake up? I've bought probably 7 Garmin PCs in the last 5 years out of my last 10 GPS units. I was hoping the Nuvi would be at least up the level of my TomTom GO with respect to the interface and it isn't even the current model. I will think twice before I buy another Garmin product based on my experience with the Nuvi.

The Nuvi is becoming a love/hate relationship that is turning more sour as I see what they could have done. I know mostly Nuvi fans are here but if you get a chance go check out a TomTom product and see how they have a more streamlined interface than the Nuvi. I think they tried to make it too simple and way over did it. At the price they charge I want all the bells and whistles even if they set it up to have both a simple and advanced user interface. Then we all could be happpy. The clueless computer magazine writes could have the dumb interface and the rest of us could get what we can really use.

Again I wanted to thank Mike for his time in putting this all together. I know how much work it takes to do this kind of thing and it is often a thankless job. At least it gives me some hope for Garmin.

Edited by - Taz-Man on 15 août 2006 04:28:36
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RedRover1

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 15 août 2006 :  05:38:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
The Nuvi is becoming a love/hate relationship that is turning more sour as I see what they could have done.
This is right on except in my case I would say they should have done. Garmin is playing the size of the nuvi as if it's the only play in their playbook. Are they building a user community around Garmin that lets people share routes around, or post custom roadblocks for cities? Nope and I really think this will turn out to be a mistake in the long run.

What helps Garmin is that unless you have another brand of GPSr or read forums like this you have no idea what other capabilities are truly out there. There are too many features that the Zumo has that are missing from the nuvi which kind of leaves me feeling like a second-class customer.

It will be interesting as a lot of users get the V8 update DVD if it will have Mapsource, and if they see all the functionality intentionally left out to the nuvi because there you can see how roadblocks, surface street/highway preferences, routes and tracks can easily work.

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SergZak

USA
1805 Posts

Posted - 15 août 2006 :  16:46:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Good info Mike! Thanks for spending the time putting that together. I've been using Garmins since the eMap & up to the Quest before the nuvi 350 and really found the feature set a letdown compared to all the other Garmin GPSs that I've used in the past. I really hope Garmin does something to improve on the nuvi's feature set but sadly, I have a feeling that the nuvi will continue to stay dumbed down for it's lifecycle.

OT:
BTW, I noticed in your screenshots some very familiar places. Looks like you're in Foothill Ranch...I'm in Whittier/Claremont/Baldwin Park (depending on the time of the week). I vacation on the Balboa Peninsula twice a year.

nüvi 3490LMT, nüvi 3790LMT, nüvi 765T, nüvi 855, nüvi 760, nüvi 750

Edited by - SergZak on 15 août 2006 17:06:44
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dsegel

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 15 août 2006 :  17:47:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RedRover1

Garmin is playing the size of the nuvi as if it's the only play in their playbook. Are they building a user community around Garmin that lets people share routes around, or post custom roadblocks for cities? Nope and I really think this will turn out to be a mistake in the long run.


I'm sure that's coming, but maybe not in time for the Nuvi generation of GPS units.

My thoughts on the matter:
The GPS industry is still in generation 2 - the first generation of GPS units just showed you where you were by giving Lat/Lon coordinates. The second generation added maps. The third generation will integrate some social network functions, like letting locals post corrections or "best routes" somewhere so that other users could download them and use them in their own GPS.

The Nuvi is a G2+ model in that it has maps and routing and a bunch of other functions, but nothing clearly different from any other G2 GPS units.
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SergZak

USA
1805 Posts

Posted - 15 août 2006 :  19:04:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:

Originally posted by dsegel

quote:
Originally posted by RedRover1

Garmin is playing the size of the nuvi as if it's the only play in their playbook. Are they building a user community around Garmin that lets people share routes around, or post custom roadblocks for cities? Nope and I really think this will turn out to be a mistake in the long run.


I'm sure that's coming, but maybe not in time for the Nuvi generation of GPS units.

<snip>



The Street Pilot 27xx series, the Quest, Quest 2 and other Garmin units already allow you to create custom avoidances (or "roadblocks"), either by street or by area as well as let you lay down a simple, savable tracklog (even the lowly Garmin eTrex yellow lets you do this). These are features already available and in use in many other Garmin units, just carefully omitted from the nuvi to keep it dumbed-down & crippled and not exploited to it's full potential. It also reminds me of the fact that the nuvi initially shipped with no satellite status display page and no way to tell your current GPS location in latitude/longitude. If someone broke down in the middle of the desert with the nuvi in their car, how could they tell the authorities/rescuers where they were (aside from "we are on highway xx, about 20 miles from highway yy") without this simple ability? Now that's what I call dumbed-down. I'm glad Garmin smartened up the nuvi to include this in later firmware versions.

nüvi 3490LMT, nüvi 3790LMT, nüvi 765T, nüvi 855, nüvi 760, nüvi 750

Edited by - SergZak on 15 août 2006 19:21:58
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Taz-Man

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 15 août 2006 :  22:06:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not to get off on a rant as each time I think about what Garmin did to the Nuvi, but the best word to describe the Nuvi is it is "crippled" as another forum member put it! For the money I have invested into this, it is fast approaching the cost of the Nav system in my Acura and no where near as good. I wish Garmin would remove their craniums from their rectums and "heal" their crippled Nuvi. Perhaps that is a bit harsh but my frustration is growing daily.

As RedRover1 put it, the small size is its only real play in its playbook and this is very frustrating as other less expnsive Garmin units do more. I have sent a few emails to Garmin linking them to this site and relevant threads. There seems to be a growing backlash against the dumbed down interface and not just on this site.

I took the time to read through ALL the feature enhancement requests on this forum regarding the Nuvi. It appears that a huge majority of them are already available on many Garmin or TomTom nav units costing much less than the Nuvi.

Edited by - Taz-Man on 16 août 2006 01:18:58
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RedRover1

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 16 août 2006 :  00:48:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
SergZak,

After you mentioned the Garmin Quest I looked at its features:
  • insert and sort multiple vias
  • plan and save routes
  • track log/breadcrumb feature
  • customizable road segment and area avoidances.
All for a list price of $495.

Why is Garmin screwing their nuvi customers? I could kinda understand the added features with the Zumo but in a unit half the price of the nuvi.

I'm going to try to call Garmin tomorrow and see what they have to say. The more people Garmin hears from about this the better.

http://www.garmin.com/products/quest/

http://www.garmin.com/support/
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Taz-Man

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 16 août 2006 :  01:21:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Mike- any more updates on the XT? It sure would be nice if they would port it to the Nuvi (that is an understatement).
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 16 août 2006 :  01:54:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Guys,

I'm glad to see that folks are enjoying my document. At the same time, I am a bit sorry to see that it has stirred up such an uproar here. I just thought that folks should know what's up with the nüvi from a user interface perspective is all (and to see what's waiting for them in Garmin's other products).

Anyway...

Taz,

I too would like to see Garmin update the nüvi's user interface with at least some of the options available on their other units. At a minimum, I'd like to see it get the routing, tracking, and better avoidance and detour options. I guess that we'll just have to wait and see what happens (although I'm not holding my breath on this one). Unlike you... I absolutely hate TomTom and wouldn't buy one of their products even if the stinking thing did my dishes for me. I'm a Garmin fan to the end! Always have been and probably always will be.

As for Mobile XT, I'm currently working on getting a set of NT maps working with it so that I can test out the live traffic feature. As soon as I get a chance, I'll update my document with the traffic info and let folks here know when I've done so.

BTW, I'm really loving Mobile XT, but the nüvi sure did spoiled me with its Text-To-Speech (TTS) feature. Thus, I'm somewhat torn between the nüvi and Mobile XT at the moment. Mobile XT looks totally awesome running on a VGA quality Pocket PC screen and so it's really hard to think of ever going back to the nüvi. However, TTS is worth its weight in gold when your driving around in real life and don't have time to stare at the screen.

What I'm really hoping is that Garmin gets it right with the Zumo 550 when it comes out in October. If so, then that unit will probably be a really good "middle ground" between the nüvi and Mobile XT (although it will be the most expensive option for sure).

RedRover1,

As for the Quest... That's EXACTLY the point I was trying to make in my document. I've had a Quest since the day it came out and so I was really looking forward to getting my nüvi. I about fell out of my chair when I saw how limited the nüvi's UI feature set was when compared to the much older Quest.

All-in-all, I still love the nüvi. I'm really hoping that Garmin can make some improvements to its feature set though.

-- MIKE
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RedRover1

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 16 août 2006 :  05:18:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

quote:
I'm a Garmin fan to the end!


I would like to be a Garmin fan also. I've had a yellow etrex for years and am very happy with it and Garmin definitely seems to have the best support out there (at least in North America). But there is the ever so slight stench that seems to be wafting over from Kansas:

  • I'm no expert but Garmin's lawsuit against TomTom seems very weak to me and seems like and attempt to derail the #2 competitor who came out from nowhere.
    http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=48922


  • A lot of the newer Garmin handheld GPSr no longer support NMEA output and while I understand there are some technical issues with USB interfaces but you shouldn't have to buy the most expensive units to get a non-proprietary output protocol.


  • And finally what they are not providing to their nuvi customers. Why do I have to try to build/save a custom route using a bunch favorites as a work around when the Quest/Mobile XT, at half the cost of the nuvi can do it no problem? I think slowly word will get out that while the nuvi is the top seller, in the functionality area the nuvi is the bastard child. Put the features in and the nuvi is a slam dunk 10/10 winner.
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Taz-Man

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 16 août 2006 :  07:03:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I HAD been a diehard Garmin fan until my last 2 units were lacking in some major areas and I felt ripped off on the prices of some of their stuff. So I did look elsewhere. The Mobile XT interface on the Nuvi with the TTS and a better speaker would make me a very ecstatic owner. Officemaven- you didn't cause the reaction to the pluses of Mobile XT vs. the Nuvi. Your post is very illustrative of what Garmin could have done with the Nuvi but to the dismay of some, didn't.

I did finally receive an email back from Garmin regarding some of my not to subtle suggestions. It seemed like a typical form letter. Typical thank you for contacting us, yada, yada, yada. I did find the next line somewhat interesting:

"The highest complement a customer can give a company is to be concerned enough to offer suggestions for improvement of a product. We appreciate you comments & opinions regarding our products."

We'll see what happens.

As for the Mobile XT, I love a VGA screen on my PDA as well. Problem is got tired of using a BT GPS with it. I do have a CF and SD slot though so I went with a CF GPS for my PDA based mapping program. If Garmin would port the Mobile XT to the Nuvi I would GLADLY pay for the upgrade if it was reasonably priced.

Lastly for being a fan of any company to the end, I gladly support a competitive marketplace. Bad products die a quick death and good ones are supported. I am not a TT lover or Garmin lover. I buy whatever is the best product regardless of firm. I found that if I have blind loyalty to any one company, almost assures that there products will not advance as quickly as if there are competitve market pressures. I can't help but remember had badly the US auto companies screwed up in the late 70's and 80's and Japan just killed them in the market place with innovation and responsive changes to customer needs.

I highly suggest that if you want to see the Nuvi improve as I do, then write Garmin and voice your opinion. If more of us voice both the pleasure and dismay of using the Nuvi then maybe the shortcomings will be corrected in future versions.
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 16 août 2006 :  17:22:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by RedRover1
... But there is the ever so slight stench that seems to be wafting over from Kansas: ...



Ha! That's a great one.

And yes, I too feel that all of your points are indeed valid ones.

BTW, I'm just the messenger of the bad news and not the author so please don't shoot me.
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 16 août 2006 :  17:24:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SergZak
BTW, I noticed in your screenshots some very familiar places. Looks like you're in Foothill Ranch...I'm in Whittier/Claremont/Baldwin Park (depending on the time of the week). I vacation on the Balboa Peninsula twice a year.



Yes, FR is indeed my stomping ground. It's good to see another So Cal native here.
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 16 août 2006 :  17:39:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Taz-Man
The Mobile XT interface on the Nuvi with the TTS and a better speaker would make me a very ecstatic owner.


Yes, I couldn't agree with you more.

quote:

Officemaven- you didn't cause the reaction to the pluses of Mobile XT vs. the Nuvi. Your post is very illustrative of what Garmin could have done with the Nuvi but to the dismay of some, didn't.


Thanks for the understanding.

quote:

As for the Mobile XT, I love a VGA screen on my PDA as well. Problem is got tired of using a BT GPS with it. I do have a CF and SD slot though so I went with a CF GPS for my PDA based mapping program. If Garmin would port the Mobile XT to the Nuvi I would GLADLY pay for the upgrade if it was reasonably priced.


Yes, I agree. The separate BT receiver is a bit of a pain. I simply see it as a trade off for now. Maybe the Zumo will be the saving grace for me (i.e. the "middle ground" between the two that I'm looking for).

Also, I too would GLADLY pay Garmin for a UI upgrade on the nüvi. If they added all of the features from Mobile XT to the nüvi, it would be one spectacular GPS unit in my book. I'm all for Garmin making a "reasonable" profit. However, I really hate getting a "dumbed down" unit when I know that they have the capability of making it so much better without any real cost to them (i.e. they already have the code in use on their other units and so it wouldn't have been hard for them to make it work with the nuvi).

quote:

... I found that if I have blind loyalty to any one company, almost assures that there products will not advance as quickly as if there are competitive market pressures. I can't help but remember had badly the US auto companies screwed up in the late 70's and 80's and Japan just killed them in the market place with innovation and responsive changes to customer needs.


True! Microsoft's dominance in the word processor market is a prime example of this. I really like Microsoft Word, but it was so much better when Microsoft had strong competition from WordPerfect, AmiPro, etc.

quote:

I highly suggest that if you want to see the Nuvi improve as I do, then write Garmin and voice your opinion. If more of us voice both the pleasure and dismay of using the Nuvi then maybe the shortcomings will be corrected in future versions.


Agreed! I really hope that Garmin sees my document. I was actually thinking about submitting it to the beta guys myself, but I just haven't got around to it yet.

Thanks for your comments.

-- MIKE
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mr.BeBoT

9 Posts

Posted - 16 août 2006 :  18:06:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Chalk up another thanks to Mike for a great read. Without having to rehash everything that's already been said, I do also hope that they take heart and make the zumo550 a 'nuvi for prosumers' if you will.

Mike (from SoCal too!)
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RedRover1

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 16 août 2006 :  22:00:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I finally talked to a very polite Garmin tech about the missing features in the nuvi when compared to the Mobile XT or the much cheaper Garmin Quest. Specifically mentioned some of the features below:

  • insert and sort multiple vias
  • plan and save routes
  • track log/breadcrumb feature
  • customizable road segment and area avoidances.


As far as why the features where missing the tech said that the Nuvi had features that the Quest didn't have such as an MP3 player, otherwise he said there was no real reason but it was a decision that was done early on in developing the Nuvi.

I explained my frustration with the Nuvi when we recently had severe flooding and many roads and bridges where out and how I could have functioned much better with the missing features. Also mentioned this thread and the frustration of some of the users.

I asked him if he had another other user have requests for any of these features and he said no but that didn't mean that other techs didn't get calls.


He also said if you email Garmin and put Suggestion in the Subject line it should go straight to a supervisor. I still think a phone call is a good idea if you can wait. So it seems our only hope is to get enough nuvi users or prospect buyers to call/email and Garmin and request these additional functions.

http://www.garmin.com/support/

Edited by - RedRover1 on 16 août 2006 22:02:27
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 17 août 2006 :  00:56:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All,

I've just updated my document to version 1.02 in order to include information on the FREE "live traffic" feature in Mobile XT.

It turns out that you do indeed need to have City Navigator NT maps in order to use the traffic features in Mobile XT (I'm using City Navigator North America NT v8). Apparently, there's information stored within the compressed NT maps that is required for the traffic feature to function. This is apparent when you build your maps in MapSource as it displays a status dialog during the build process that reads "Building traffic files...":



The live traffic feature is working great in the current beta of Mobile XT. Here are some screen shots just to show you what it looks like (if you want to see more, you can always download the updated version of my document):







And yes, that is indeed a McDonalds advertisement that you're seeing.

Way to go Garmin!

-- MIKE

EDIT: Removed last three photos (to help ease bandwidth problems)

EDIT: Added "building traffic files" screen shot

Edited by - TheOfficeMaven on 23 août 2006 22:16:46
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RedRover1

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 17 août 2006 :  02:31:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
The traffic services are very similar to what’s on the nüvi with the exception that they are free as long as you have access to the Internet in order to download the traffic reports. On a Pocket PC or Smartphone this is generally done using your mobile phone’s GPRS service (or via a WiFi connection).



Very cool post

When you did your test did you use the GPRS service or a wifi connection?

I've never used my cell for data but wouldn't that get expensive quick unless you had an unlimited data plan?

You may not be able to compare, but does the traffic data look comparable to what is provided by Clear Channel?
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 17 août 2006 :  02:53:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi RedRover1,

I've actually tested it both ways. WiFi is much faster for me since my current cell phone doesn't have Edge capabilities (just standard GPRS). However, you'll more than likely have to rely upon a GPRS connection while you're on the road as WiFi hot spots might be hard to locate when you need/want them.

As for the data plan costs... It's not expensive at all since the weather and traffic downloads are only a small number of KBs each. I'm currently using a 1 MB data plan (that costs $5 per month) and after a full day of playing around with the Garmin Online services (not including the traffic camera downloads of course), I've only used around 100 KB! My provider even has a 5 MB plan for $10 a month if I need it or even an unlimited plan for $20 per month. However, I already had the data plan before Mobile XT. Thus, I don't really see it as Mobile XT is costing me any more money per month per se.

As for the traffic data... I'm afraid that I can't really comment on that as this is actually the first time I've ever used it (well, I did use TomTom's traffic services for a while and they seem to be fairly comparable so far). Personally, I could never get myself to spend the money on one of the RDS FM traffic receivers without knowing how well it actually worked in my area first.
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Taz-Man

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 17 août 2006 :  03:53:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Post moved to Zumo 550 thread in Garmin Advanced Navigation Systems forum as it more properly belongs there:

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=61607

Edited by - NanaimoRick on 18 août 2006 02:02:02
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 17 août 2006 :  06:35:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Post moved to Zumo 550 thread in Garmin Advanced Navigation Systems forum as it more properly belongs there:

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=61607

Edited by - NanaimoRick on 18 août 2006 02:02:23
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Taz-Man

USA
117 Posts

Posted - 17 août 2006 :  06:56:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Post moved to Zumo 550 thread in Garmin Advanced Navigation Systems forum as it more properly belongs there:

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=61607

Edited by - NanaimoRick on 18 août 2006 02:02:47
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 18 août 2006 :  03:15:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Look what I just found out (forgive me if it's already been mentioned somewhere else on these forums)... According to Garmin the new Mobile 20 product (i.e. the GPS 20SM) is going to have a "HotFix™ GPS acceleration" feature added into the Garmin Online component of the Mobile XT software that will be shipping with it.

This is pretty darn cool as that's basically AGPS over the Internet for a Garmin product! I know for sure that the GPS 10 won't support this feature since it doesn't have a SiRF Star III chipset (and hence why we aren't seeing it in the current beta of Mobile XT), but I bet that the new Mobile 10 (i.e. GPS 10X) will! Chalk that up as another totally AWESOME feature for Mobile XT! It just keeps getting better and better as we go along. Way to go Garmin!

Now... If we can just have TTS on Mobile XT I'd be in absolute heaven.

BTW, I found the info about the new HotFix™ GPS acceleration feature on the specifications page for Mobile 20 on Garmin's web site here:

http://www.garmin.com/products/garminmobile20/spec.html
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 18 août 2006 :  03:24:24  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nice find, looks like SIF (SiRFInstantFix) indeed, you probably want to repost that in the Mobile 20 thread ;-)

Haven't had a chance to read your comparison yet, you might want to summarize your conclusion for a quick read in the forums. I've posted some comments on Mobile XT in its thread and not being able to use the new "online" features in Europe can't say that I'm terribly impressed so far even compared to the nüvi, as I miss the one tap access to the 2D north up map and the trip summary information in the trip computer screen, but that may be a beta bug.

The idea of sponsoring the traffic feeds is certainly interesting.

Discounts and Assistance/Réductions et Assistance (Club GpsPasSion) / Où commencer?
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 22 août 2006 :  18:07:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
All,

I'm afraid that I'm no longer able to host the Mobile XT document on my website as the bandwidth is just eating me alive (who would've thought that it would be so popular???). Since I'm now starting to get quite a few e-mails from folks looking for the document, I was just wondering if anyone here has the ability to host it publicly? If so, I'd be more than happy to upload it to your site for you and post a download link here.

Unfortunately, I can no longer host it on my own site and I can't e-mail it to anyone (so please don't ask) since it's way too big.

Personally, it served its purpose as far as I'm concerned and so I'm over it now. Thus, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other at this point. I just thought that I'd make the offer available if anyone's interested.

-- MIKE
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 22 août 2006 :  20:37:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BTW, a hair off topic perhaps, but relating this Mobile XT discussion over to the following one where the nüvi's MP3 player wouldn't display iTunes album art properly:

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=62266

It appears that the Windows Media Player (WMP) Mobile edition (i.e. the MP3 player that you'd most likely be using along with Mobile XT on your Pocket PC or Smartphone) has a similar album artwork display problem. It turns out that WMP won't display album artwork that is embedded within audio files (like MP3s, etc.). Instead, it requires that the album artwork exists as separate JPEG formatted images that are stored within the same folder as the audio files (come on now Microsoft! How cRaZy is that??? ).

Anyway... To make a long story short, just as I did for the nüvi (and other Garmin GPS units that have the built-in MP3 player - like the zûmo, SP 2820, etc,), I've added a new option to my SyncMyPortable program that will fix this behavior for Mobile XT users. In the latest version of SyncMyPortable, there's a new "Set up album artwork for WMP Mobile" setting in the program that, when enabled, will automatically extract the embedded album artwork image out of your MP3 files and store it on the device/SD card as a separate JPEG formatted image. Doing this allows WMP to properly display the album artwork for your audio files. For a download link to SyncMyPortable, see the topic I linked you to above.

Not sure why I have to keep fixing album artwork display problems each time I change GPS devices.
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danham

USA
7448 Posts

Posted - 22 août 2006 :  22:15:07  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Mike:

How big is it? I pay surcharges for extra storage, but not bandwidth, so I might be able to help.

-dan

- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 22 août 2006 :  23:48:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi Dan,

The current version (1.02) in its self-extracting RAR format is compressed down to 5.06 MB (uncompressed as a DOC file it's 8.15 MB).

-- MIKE
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danham

USA
7448 Posts

Posted - 23 août 2006 :  00:27:18  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
If you don't find a more suitable solution, remind me. I'd need to really clean up my web site to accommodate it (to avoid surcharges).

-dan

- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 23 août 2006 :  01:00:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Will do. Thanks!
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admin_0

1 Posts

Posted - 29 août 2006 :  10:44:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
90% of people with a nüvi don't need or even want the advanced features like via points.
If the nüvi had the menu options and system settings of that mobile xt my mom would not have bought it.
There are plenty of GPS choices with advanced features, the masses clearly want a simple dumb GPS.
Good luck but I think your efforts would be better in saving up and buying another GPS.
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danham

USA
7448 Posts

Posted - 29 août 2006 :  14:09:50  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for your comments, but I have to question the "90%" estimate.

While members here do not represent a statistically valid sample of nuvi owners, they do represent people Garmin wants (and needs) as customers, and the consensus among them so far is that nuvi has erred on the side of "dumbing down" the interface a bit too much.

A well-designed interface can work for newbies and experts, keeping the fancy stuff out of the way yet accessible if wanted. Think the opposite of Microsoft Word, for example (sorry, can't resist).

-dan

- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA

Edited by - danham on 29 août 2006 14:12:56
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 29 août 2006 :  16:56:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All,

Rich Owings of gps tracklog (http://www.gpstracklog.com) has been kind enough to host the latest version (i.e. version 1.03) of my Mobile XT vs. nüvi document on his site for us all. Thus, if you haven't yet seen the document you can now grab a copy of it from here:

http://gpstracklog.typepad.com/gps_tracklog/2006/08/garmin_nuvi_com.html

-- MIKE

Edited by - TheOfficeMaven on 29 août 2006 17:05:38
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danham

USA
7448 Posts

Posted - 29 août 2006 :  21:08:25  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
In-car OEM nav system with all the smart features: $1500+

Nuvi: $600-$750.

Do the math.

-dan

- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA
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RedRover1

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 29 août 2006 :  23:12:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another way to look at is the Garmin Quest with advanced nav features: $350 or less

Nuvi $600-700

Do the math.

I'm a dreamer and still holding out that Garmin will do the right thing. Maybe for the one year anniversary of the nuvi.

Edited by - RedRover1 on 29 août 2006 23:16:03
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booyakasha

9 Posts

Posted - 03 sept. 2006 :  03:55:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
http://rapidshare.de/files/31752451/Garmin_Mobile_XT_vs._Garmin_Nuvi.doc

I've uploaded the comparison to Rapidshare. For those who don't know how to use it, here are instructions:

1) Click on the link
2) Scroll down to the "Premium" and "Free" buttons and click "Free"
3) You will see a timer count down. When it hits 0.00, enter the security code that comes up and hit "Download"
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 03 sept. 2006 :  20:53:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi booyakasha,

Cool! Thanks for doing that for everyone.

BTW, do you know what version of the document you've posted? The most current one is 1.04. As long as it's 1.02 or later, it's all good, as that's the one that has the traffic info added to it.

-- MIKE
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Planet GPS

369 Posts

Posted - 18 sept. 2006 :  07:13:22  Show Profile  Visit Planet GPS's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'm starting to think of the Nuvi as somewhat of a prick tease.

Beautiful to look at, promises you a lot, gets you all excited, but in the end it just doesn't deliver
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PaulR

USA
80 Posts

Posted - 18 sept. 2006 :  14:55:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the detailed information on Mobile XT.

I moved from the Mapopolis software on my Treo 650 (to a C550), mainly due to features and usability, but also largely because I didn't want to have to use the phone for my GPS as it didn't do it particularly well. But by far the biggest complaint was the way maps were stored on the SD card. It was complicated by the way Mapoplis stored and read the data, but it was just a pain having to swap counties around depending on where you were. It's great to be able to land in a different city, fire the unit up and let it figure out where it is and be ready to go...without having to load any maps.

Having bluetooth connectivity between the two is definitely a better option. Rather than bringing the GPS to the phone, it brings the phone to the GPS. I can keep my phone in my pocket and have all the features I need.

But I really like some of the features of Mobile XT...namely routing via multiple points (I like to take certain trips via backroads that are usually faster, so rather than routing via waypoints, I have to select a destination of one city, veryify the route, and then once I get close to that city, select another destination that is on the route...then repeat).

I also like the custom avoidances as well as the free live wireless traffic. I've got the integrated receiver, and my traffic subscription is just about up. I'll probably renew. But seeing as I have a bluetooth connection to my phone, as well as a data plan on the phone itself, it seems natural that I would be able to update the information that way. In addition, I bought an extra power adapter so that I don't have to take mine from my car whenever I travel with my wife in hers, or with anyone else. The downside is that it doesn't have the traffic capabilities. So it would be nice to be able to upgrade the traffic as long as I'm with it, wherever that may be...even if on battery power.
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sethm1

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 07 oct. 2006 :  07:17:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What about the Nuvi 660?
But I hear it does not do multisegment routing - what is multisegment routing?
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RedRover1

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 07 oct. 2006 :  16:06:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Multisegment routing can also be known as multiple via routing (aka traveling salesman routing). Basically it means that you can plan multiple stops into a single route. The entire nuvi line only allows one via on a route. This is a feature a lot of people miss.

For the most part the nuvi 660 has the same core navigation limitations that all the other nuvi's have.

Edited by - RedRover1 on 07 oct. 2006 16:07:33
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sethm1

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 07 oct. 2006 :  18:43:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sounds like for the travler that multi routing not terrible important.
will the 660 handle shortest time, shortest distance, most & less use of freeways?
I do not see an altimeter feature on any GPS unit- not deal breaker just curious.
Thx
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NanaimoRick

Canada
7762 Posts

Posted - 07 oct. 2006 :  21:11:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If it's like the 3x0 series the altimeter is on the Satellite page, upper right to the left of the signal bars. Again if it's like the 3x0 units you will get fastest time, shortest distance and be able to set avoidances by highway type etc.

Rick James - Nuvi Forum Moderator
Nuvi 350 - Nuvi 760 - Nuvi 1695LM - Nuvi 3790LMT (with ecoRoutes HD) - Nuvi 2460LMT - Nuvi 3597LMTHD (with ecoRoutes HD) also TomTom 540S for side by side comparison >> Here <<
2014 Chevrolet Equinox 2LT AWD


Edited by - NanaimoRick on 07 oct. 2006 21:12:53
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Bob72

USA
199 Posts

Posted - 07 oct. 2006 :  21:30:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Planet GPS

I'm starting to think of the Nuvi as somewhat of a prick tease.

Beautiful to look at, promises you a lot, gets you all excited, but in the end it just doesn't deliver



It sure makes me feel good to see someone has the same opinion I had.

Nuvi 660 (Ustahave 350)
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wchp

4 Posts

Posted - 07 oct. 2006 :  22:09:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK, did all the reading and had thought I had narrowed it down to the C550 or Nuvi 660 but stumbled on this thread. I read the doc and I'm SOLD, so now I need to get whatever items it is I need to implement this navigation solution. My understanding from the threads and Garmin's site is that:
1) I buy the Garmin GPS-10 (approx $170+/-)
2) I buy the Dell Axium (Cheapest Model is currently $224.00
3) I download the latest Mobile XT software from Garmin

So correct me if I am wrong here... but for sub $400 US I end up with better features, NavTeq Maps and a Pocket PC ?

What is the downside here?
Granted, Its two items rather than one in the car, but couldn't I just Velcro the antenna to the back deck of the car and use the blue-tooth to talk to the Pocket PC?

Does this have TTS or some type of audio prompts?

This just seems like a to good to be true scenario here?

Edited by - wchp on 07 oct. 2006 22:27:29
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  01:00:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi wchp,

Actually, you're better off waiting for Garmin Mobile 10 to be released. The Mobile 10 package contains an updated version of the GPS 10 Bluetooth receiver (the GPS 10X) that has a much more sensitive (i.e. better) GPS receiver. The Mobile 10 package will also include a copy of the final release of the Mobile XT Pocket PC application as well as the latest map set (i.e. Garmin MapSource City Navigator NT North America v8). The package should be available some time in late November or early December. You can currently pre-order it from online sites like TigerGPS.com and they will ship it to you just as soon as they receive their stock from Garmin.

As for the Dell Axim Pocket PC... That is a very good choice as it's a very powerful Pocket PC. However, I'd be sure to get the X51v model and not just the X51 as the "v" version has a bigger VGA display and so it will show much more detail on the screen than the QVGA version will. Also, note that the Dell Axim's, while probably the most powerful Pocket PC's on the market, aren't smart phones. Thus, you'll still need to tether them to your existing Bluetooth enabled mobile phone if you want to use the Garmin Online services (such as traffic, etc.). Alternatively, you could search out another Windows Mobile 2005-based Pocket PC that you like that also contains a built-in mobile phone.

As far as the Mobile XT application is concerned, there isn't another Garmin unit that can match it in terms of features (except maybe Garmin's top-of-the-line 28xx series that is). Thus, if you like the thought of having a Pocket PC be your main navigation device (instead of a dedicated PND like the nüvi or zumo), then the Garmin Mobile 10 (or Mobile 20) package is the way to go for sure.

-- MIKE

P.S. The only real thing lacking on Mobile XT is TTS. It still gives voice prompted turn-by-turn navigation directions. It just doesn't speak street names is all (very few Pocket PC-based navigation programs do).
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sethm1

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  01:38:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The multi-segment routing, is that basically a feature that would allow you to enter a list of destinations and then it figures out the best order to use to minimize the total distance traveled?

Since I am not in Sales, not a big deal for me. With the 660 can you least add waypoints?

I like the 350 & 360, but the 660 has a bigger/wider screen. which is why I am leaning towards the 660.

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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  02:31:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes and yes...
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HeavenSoldier

93 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  02:34:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I really don't see whats the big deal of the nuvi, I mean for me all I need is a strong accurate navigator, all the other stuff doesn't matter. Someone mentioned a 1500+ OEM navigation device, even though they are packed with features, some of the in-dash navigation systems have poor navigation capability(not all), especially if the antenna, etc if installed wrong (aftermarket). But maybe it's just me all the other features just aren't necessary, as long as I can safely get to point A from point B safely and accurate I'm fine. Plus those OEM or aftermarket devices don't have constant updates like the garmin does, you may have to wait a year for a update if there is one at all. In fact someone told me the garmin was a better navigation and the way to go, check here http://avic411.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2083

But one question, what garmin model is the best and most accurate and etc? Nuvi or the 28 etc. I was looking to buy the 660 but this topic has me thinking. Thanks and God Bless
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sethm1

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  03:50:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So, heavansoldier, which model are you leaning to?
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RedRover1

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  05:05:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
as long as I can safely get to point A from point B safely and accurate I'm fine


I absolutely disagree with this and because some of these missing features the nuvi is much less safer than other much cheaper units. Here are two of my examples:

My wife had a baby shower to go to so I plugged the restaurant it was at into the nuvi for her. I checked the route because it had been raining all day and I saw that it was going on a road that tends to be flooded by a nearby creek during heavy ran. No problem I placed a key via to pull her away from that road and onto a safer one. Well as luck would have it on the ride down the nuvi locked up (first and only time so far) and my wife had to reset it. Seemed the route was gone but my wife knew to select the restaurant from recent selections but now the via was gone so it sent her right down the road. Luckily when a truck wake nearly swamped her car she realized she was going down the road I warned. She had to stop the route because it kept trying to send her to the flooded road. Had the nuvi been able to save a route or had the ability to set areas to avoid this wouldn't have happened.

The second time we were meeting an old friend for dinner out in the Midwest. I told him the route I planned to take into the city and he warned me about a rough neighborhood to avoid. I checked the route and the nuvi was not sending us through the neighborhood. We went on the trip and for most of it we didn't use the unit because we knew the way. Activated the route as we got closer and guess what the route was completely different and it send us right through the neighborhood. We got through okay but had the nuvi allowed us to save a route or have areas to avoid none of this would have happened.

Also many nuvi owners get around the lack of route saving or multiple vias by saving numerous favorites at key points along the route to get the route they want. I don't think this is as safe because this causes you to need to interact with the unit while driving much more than if the entire route was created at once since as you get to one favorite you have to activate the next one.

There are many times the incorporation of some local knowledge or common sense can make your trip safer but the nuvi makes it hard if not impossible to use.

So just to make all nuvi owners feel better they are putting all these features into what can run on a smart cell phone but they will not put in units that some people paid $900 for. Also the TomTom One that in some places can be picked up for about $450 has all the possible advanced navigation features, many of them are hidden or exposed depending on if you select the basic or advanced menu choice. You get the best of both worlds.

Edited by - RedRover1 on 08 oct. 2006 05:07:52
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sethm1

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  05:19:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Redrover-
Interesting comments.
Which Nuvi model was this?
Would hope the 660 much better.
I started my GPS research with almost buying the TomTom One- but it does not have text to speech and not so many POI's. Plus the Garmin's and Magellan's have a built in Map- the SD cards are for extra/custom POI's, Mp3,etc.
So which brand/model would you prefer?
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HeavenSoldier

93 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  05:23:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
sethm1 I was going to get the nuvi 660 but I'm still researching. The avic s1 is also nice too.

I understand what your saying RedRover, the block road feature is very helpful, but can't garmin just add that feature and other features through an update?

Rover my only problem is that I don't want to look for another navigation system due to lack of features of the nuvi 660 which I'm considering, and find out other portable systems might have horrible navigation routing, bad estimates of ETA, proximity of landing close to an POI or address is OFF and etc., which from what I hear the garmin is good for. But I understand you guys just want us to be smart with our money and make the right choice to buying the right system.

Also the user reviews of the nuvi 660 are outstanding.

For example compare the TomTom One here http://reviews.cnet.com/TomTom_One/4852-3430_7-32026663.html?tag=sub

To the garmin nuvi 660
http://tinyurl.com/rrbp5

Also the TomTom One use teletlas, which many call inferior to the Navteq which garmin and other successful devices use. But I usually goto google and look at user reviews of the product I'm interested in buying. But I agree the road block feature is necessary. Going through a rough neighborhood and not being able to block it can be destructive if your not able to sustain your cool and poise!
Also sethm1 you may want to consider the avic s1, goto pioneerlectronics.com and check it out.

Anyways I still may go with the nuvi 660 God willing. Thanks and God Bless.

Edited by - NanaimoRick on 08 oct. 2006 15:43:59
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sethm1

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  05:33:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes and the mapping software on the Garmin is supposed to be great.

I have read a number of posts from not just this forum, but reviews from Cnet, etc. And unfortunately the various comparison charts do not compare feature to feature- so those reviews are pointless.

The more I read, the more difficult it is to decide. EVERY GPS unit has its good features and bad. I have yet to come across a unit I would purchase right now hands down. And though I don't care about MP3 and photos on my GPS (unless I can link a photo to a POI)all the top lines have these 2 features. I sometimes wonder if the manufacturers are really paying attention.
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RedRover1

USA
582 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  06:11:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Which Nuvi model was this? Mine was the 350 but the navigation features on the 660 are practically identical so you will have the same issues.

You may not know but Garmin has a history of keeping features out of the nuvi. The first nuvi shipped with no ability to display the coordinates of your current location, only after a large outcry from users was this fixed in a firmware upgrade. If enough people complained or told Garmin they aren't buying the nuvi because of the missing features this would be quickly fixed. Interesting to notice that on units were there is serious competition all the features magically make it in, i.e. Garmin Zumo and Mobile XT. Are motorcyclists that much smarter that they can figure out all the advanced features? No, in the same space the TomTom Rider is a strong seller and they need to match the feature list. Up till recently there was no one that had units the size of the nuvi but that is all changing.

As far as TomTom I know two people that have the 910 and One respectively and they are happy with them but my experience is limited but I really liked what you could do with the units. I would take a look at the TomTom threads to gauge problems, except for the mount problems on the 510 and 910 they are fairly quiet and there are now probably a million TomToms in North America since they have 25-30% market share and most of them are very happy. All that said I don't have much first hand experience with TomTom so you'll have to do your own research.

Before your purchase I would contact Garmin and ask why the nuvi is so stripped down and let them answer you. Let them know this may influence your purchase. I guarantee you if enough complained or sales slowed down they would fix this quickly just like they did originally in adding your current location.

http://www.garmin.com/support/

I initially was very thrilled with the nuvi because it was magic how it routed you from place to place, but the incident with sending my wife down the flooded road even though I tried to avoid it the best way the nuvi could set me off. I was mad that some marketing decision at Garmin affected the safety of my family for no good reason. How can they justify that a cell phone needs these features and not the nuvi? There is no answer to this, Garmin gets away with this because most people don't know any better, like I did in the beginning.

Edited by - RedRover1 on 08 oct. 2006 06:39:28
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  18:16:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another BIG difference between the nüvi and Mobile XT is that Mobile XT (as well as the new Zumo which also has such a feature) allows you to plan your routes on the PC (in the Garmin MapsSource program) and then send them to your navigation unit. For daily "around town" trips this might not matter, but if you're wanting to go on a weekend trip with lots of stopovers along the way, this is an invaluable feature to say the least.

It's much more convenient (not to mention much faster) to plan out the trip sitting at your computer rather than fumbling around with a tiny PND. Your computer's monitor is huge and has much better resolution than any PND does and so it makes planning routes/trips much easier. Thus, the ability to send routes to one's PND is a huge benefit IMHO.

A routing feature like this also would have helped RedRover1's wife out as well. If the nüvi had supported routes, he could have easily stored the route he wanted his wife to take on the nüvi, and then when it crashed, all she would have had to of done is restart the saved route.
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HeavenSoldier

93 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2006 :  20:36:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Okay I see what your saying Rover and all. I'll call garmin about the blocked road, the other features I don't care much about. Thanks and God Bless.
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HeavenSoldier

93 Posts

Posted - 10 oct. 2006 :  17:55:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just got off the phone with garmin, he told me he doesn't see any information that would give him the knowledge of whether engineers are going to add the block road feature to the garmin nuvi. But when I said "is there anywhere I can go to voice my opinion about the block road feature" he said he will reference my call, and that gives engineers something to consider and think about. So maybe we should set up a automatic e-mail thing and e-mail garmin about this feature? Or atleast call them? As the Holy Bible says , "You have not because you ask not," so why not try?
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sethm1

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 12 oct. 2006 :  01:22:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
this from Garmin Tech support:

" Thank you for contacting Garmin International. I'll be happy to pass your request forward to our engineers. I don't know if there will be an addition for a feature like this in the future or not, but I'll be more than happy to pass this request up and see what we can do.
Thank you.

Best regards,
********
Product Support Specialist
Garmin Internation"

I removed his name.
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HeavenSoldier

93 Posts

Posted - 12 oct. 2006 :  02:33:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I didn't email them yet about the block road feature, I need to do that soon.
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