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 English Forums - Hardware
 GPS Receivers for PDAs and PCs
 [TOPIC] Garmin GPS10X Bluetooth GPS - Reviewed
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 26 juil. 2006 :  17:37:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
UPDATED BY GPSPASSION 20070303

TESTING - NEW GARMIN BLUETOOTH GPS - GPS 10X
New SiRFstarIII CHIPSET INSIDE ?




The MobileXT software is discussed >> HERE <<



Updated 200702 : Side by side comparison with other Bluetooth GPS receivers >> HERE <<

Updated 20070126 : Had a problem today while doing some pedestrian testing, it turns out the Bluetooth range on the GPS10x is quite limited and it loses the signal if you put it in a backpack while holding your PDA normally in your hands. The Globalsat, iBlue and Qstarz I had for the ride had no problem. That's maybe one of the ways Garmin are getting such amazing battery life out of the GPS10x. I had to clip it to my belt and it seems this created a performance hit. Will analyze the logs in the next few days.

Updated 20070115 : I have been able to confirm with 4 battery test runs that the battery life is indeed exceptional, with 3 coming at 28+ hours and the fourth at 23, possibly due to a charging problem. This is what the satellite tracks and mask angle look like over 28 hours of logging :




Garmin's PC utility does not provide much in the way of controls compared to the older GPS10 model



Updated 20070106 : Finished my first battery test...and I'm stunned, 28h38' of continuous use ! Amazing, that's a time to power ration of 1.56, versus 1.4 on the MTK based iBlue 737 and 0.7 on the SiRFstarIII SC BT-359. I wonder if Garmin are not using the new SiRFlink BT+GPS chipset that SiRF announced last year to get that type of amazing battery life.

Updated 20070103 : just received a test unit from Semsons as seen above.
    FIRST COMMENTS:
  1. Small and sleek !

  2. Uses a 1100mAh battery, so it's still anyone's guess how it can achieve the announced 22 hours of battery life since on SiRFstarIII v2 receivers like the Globalsat BT-359 that would yield about 12 hours - UPDATED : see above

  3. Powers on automatically when you connect it via USB

  4. Bluetooth passcode is 1234

  5. To be continued...



THE GPS10x FROM THE INSIDE


A very thin patch antenna that sits above the SiRFstarIII chipset


More components, likely the Bluetooth chips










News Item on the portal

Updated 12/20 - The GPS10x/MobileXT bundles have arrived !

Updated 09/12 - The GPS10 has now been officially announced by Garmin on their site and it does indeed have the powerful SiRFstarIII chipset on board for a better overall user experience compared with the previous generation of chipsets. The question is how are they getting 22 hours from a SiRFIII chipset, as that would require a huge 1900mAh battery based on the requirements of the latest single-chip SiRFstarIII chipset used on the Globalsat BT-359...maybe they've moved to the yet unreleased SS3-LP version that was launched at 3GSM, something lo look forward to !

Posted 07/26 - After making a beta of the new "Mobile XT" software available a couple of months ago (see below), Garmin are preparing a new Bluetooth GPS Receiver, the GPS 10X, a slick device that recalls the Globalsat BT-359.

Some concern about the chipset inside though as the preliminary manual available on the FCC's site specifies "12 channels", no trace of the SiRFstarIII "20 channels" or "high sensitivity", a term Garmin generally uses when they rely on that chipset. Still let's hope the performance is improved compared to the weak GPS10.


Hi All,

ALRIGHT! Garmin's finally going to release an update to the GPS 10 called the GPS 10X. It just received approval from the FCC. I'm assuming that it will be SiRF Star III and include the new Mobile XT app. SWEET!

Here's a PDF document containing photos of the new receiver:

Garmin GPS 10X Photos

And here's the preliminary User's Manual:

Garmin Mobile 10 User's Manual

-- MIKE

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gpspassion

94687 Posts

Posted - 26 juil. 2006 :  17:59:19  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good catch, I've extracted a few pictures from the PDF, judging by the manual though and its "12 channel" descriptiong for the GPS module, I'm concerned it might not be a SiRFstarIII chipset in there as it is generally described as a 20 channel, and Garmin have referred to a "high sensitivity chipset" when they use one. We'll have to wait.

PS - Moved to the "news" section where you had posted a link already.

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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 26 juil. 2006 :  18:21:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, you're probably correct. Although, I couldn't really see the need for Garmin to update the GPS 10 unless they made it SiRF Star III. Also, if you take a look at the technical specifications document for the Mobile 20 (which we all know is going to be SiRF Star III), it also mentions 12 channel. Here's a quote:

"High sensitivity SiRFstarIII GPS receiver; WAAS-enabled; Tracks and uses up to 12 satellites to compute and update your position"

Maybe it's just a typo???

Here's a link to that document on Garmin's web site:

http://www.garmin.com/specs/garminmobile20_0406.pdf
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gpspassion

94687 Posts

Posted - 26 juil. 2006 :  18:27:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good point and yes I wasn't too "worried" about the 12 channels as that's the effective number of channels being used, but the lack of "High sensitivity" does make me wonder. The "X" could go either way as the 60Cx has SS3, but not the Etrex Cx.

I was looking at the power consumption, but can't make out much of the "15W Max @13.8V DC"

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MidnightMapper

6 Posts

Posted - 27 juil. 2006 :  06:57:46  Show Profile  Visit MidnightMapper's Homepage  Reply with Quote
There seems to be an intersting trend in these consumer chip sets in that the OEM (Garmin) may buy the silicon (SirfStarIII) and then load its own position calculation software to save on cost. As Garmin has many years of code development for their 12-channel silicon, the 12 versus 20 channel issue might lie here. As for which is better 12 or 20, well that is a technical one. While a device might indeed be able to "track" lock on upto 20 satelites, it may not actually use any more than the best four for the calculation of a 3D position - the minimum. This creates a jerky (aka GPS-jump or jitter) navigation as the system selects the best geometic satelites in and out of the position solution (PDOP is optimized rather that position repeatabilty). If on the other hand more than four satelites are used in the position solution, this is termed an over-determined solution. In my experiece over better than decade now, is that over determined solutions are far smoother and generally more accurate (smaller CEP or RMS statistics). An over-determined solution needs smarter math and a faster processor.

To sum, I would prefer an over-determined solution from an 8-channel or in this case, 12-channel device, than a four satelite solution picked from upwards of 20 satelites. BTW, the largest array of GPS satelites rarely exceeds 10 in-view satelites but that may change as the next generation of satelites come on line.
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OWG

Canada
5 Posts

Posted - 27 juil. 2006 :  16:04:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm glad to see there is a removable battery and that the magnet appears to be gone. The USB power connector is a plus as well. One thing that Garmin really did well with the GPS10 was its power management capability. It could be set to power on when power is applied (turning on the car) and would power off with no power and 15 minutes of BT inactivity. Because of that I can leave it in my rear window with never having to touch it. Sign me up, I'll get one for sure when it is available!
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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 12 sept. 2006 :  18:10:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi all,

Well, Garmin's just given a press release for Mobile 10 (i.e. the GPS 10x). Thus, it looks like it's now official:

http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/mobile/091206a.html

It says that it will be available in November for around $199. Still no direct mention of SiRF though (at least in the press release).

Here's the official product page link, but I'm currently getting a error when attempting to view it:

http://www.garmin.com/products/garminmobile10/

-- MIKE
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gpspassion

94687 Posts

Posted - 12 sept. 2006 :  18:48:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good catch (again!) page is working for me, doesn't look like SiRFIII (12 channel, 22 hour battery life), guess they're trying to get more mileage out of their homegrown chipset ;-)

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TheOfficeMaven

USA
332 Posts

Posted - 12 sept. 2006 :  18:56:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hold on... Garmin does mention that it's SiRF on this page:

http://www.garmin.com/products/garminmobile10/

The SiRF icon is shown at the top of the page.

EDIT:

Also, the spec sheet is now up and it does indeed claim SiRF Star III

http://www.garmin.com/products/garminmobile10/spec.html

-- MIKE

Edited by - TheOfficeMaven on 12 sept. 2006 18:58:15
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gpspassion

94687 Posts

Posted - 12 sept. 2006 :  19:03:10  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ah excellent, so now, how are they getting 22 hours from a SiRFIII chipset, that would require a huge 1900mAh battery based on the requirements of the latest single-chip SiRFstarIII chipset used on the Globalsat BT-359...maybe they've moved to the SS3-LP version that was launched at 3GSM, something lo look forward to ;-)

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aliensquale

126 Posts

Posted - 12 sept. 2006 :  21:08:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
yeah that battery life sounds crazy...
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Tosty

United Kingdom
12 Posts

Posted - 13 sept. 2006 :  14:40:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

Having had a look at the spec sheet posted, it says the output protocol is NMEA 0183. Does that mean it could be used with say Tomtom Navigator 6? Not saying that I would want to, but it does give some extra options! Also the specs say is has a USB port for charging. Can this USB port be used for sending the gps signals - like a standard USB connected GPS device?

Regards,

Tosty.

Edited by - Tosty on 13 sept. 2006 14:40:50
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aliensquale

126 Posts

Posted - 13 sept. 2006 :  15:06:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would think that you could always us GPSGate and still use this gps with any software package.
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gpspassion

94687 Posts

Posted - 14 sept. 2006 :  23:51:42  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well you woulnd't even need that, NMEA is the standard GPS protocol used by all programs out there so no worries. Unlikley for GPS Data over USB, few units have that, if you need that feature, look at the Wintec WBT-100

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jvivek

Canada
51 Posts

Posted - 19 sept. 2006 :  22:27:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can't wait for this program and hardware to come out.

So far Globsat-358 was a disappointment with auto-shut off feature which they promised to release a new fimware disabling it but never did, also with the new version of TomTom being a disappointment, this will be a welcome change, someone should post the preview that theofficeman created here.


Thanks

Vic J
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jvivek

Canada
51 Posts

Posted - 04 oct. 2006 :  08:08:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
any updates to the possible release?

Thanks

Vic J
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