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 [SINGLE TOPIC] Loox T810/830 - PDAPhone+GPS+3G
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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 12 juil. 2006 :  20:09:13  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
UPDATED20060915 - new pictures of shipping model, see last page
UPDATED20060915 - photo quality here
TESTING - FUJITSU LOOX T810/830
First PDAPhone with GPS, 3G and WiFi





[size=1]The Loox T830 compared to the other GPS PDAPhones


The Fujitsu Loox T810/830 (Fujitsu Siemens Website) is the first GPS PDAphone with a 3G/UMTS chip and it's the fourth GPS PDAphone to become available altogether after the HP hw6515 released in Europe in August 2005 and in January 2006 in the US (reviewed), the Eten G500/TORQ N100 released in March 2006 (reviewed) and the Mio A701 released in April 2006 (reviewed). I have just received a test model and will share my first steps with this exciting device. Feel free to ask questions or make suggestions on what you'd like to see in this article.

    FIRST STEPS WITH THE T830
  1. A Full Bodied Device : as can be seen in the pictures above, the T830 is larger than its competition. Tall, thick and heavy, at first it feels a bit like a "brick", like the Eten G500 did, and in spite of that its square screen (240x240) stands at only 2.6" versus the 3.3" of the HP hw 6515. No surprise in this area and this is what I expected after first seeing the T830 at the 3GSM show in February. Unlike what some thought the screen was not widened. The positive "flipside" of course is the unique combination of features : GSM/3G/WiFi/Bluetooth/GPS/Keyboard (and dual camera) that are going to make it hard to move back to another PDA !


  2. 3G/UMTS Ericsson Chip : the big news on the Loox T830 is the 3G/UMTS/2100Mhz chip and it does not disappoint with peak speeds of 356kbps on the Orange 3G network with an average around 300kbps. While I'd say Edge/2.75G as on the HP 6515 is a minimum to replace a modem, it can't be denied that 3G brings an additional level of comfort and is close to DSL if you don't have to download large files and with some little extra latency too.Updated 07/25 : you can't have 3G and WiFi working at the same time, thanks to lsmith for suggesting the test. According to FSC it will be fixed with the final ROM.



  3. GPS SiRFstarIII WITHOUT AGPS : as expected the T830 is powered by a SiRFstarIII chipset, but it uses the v3.1 formware not the v3.2 required for SiRF's SiRFInstantFix AGPS over the internet implementation. There is no applet either to download the ephemeris data. Let's hope that this very useful feature (makes the "fix" much faster and consistent regardless of the environment - see detailshere and here) will be made available via a ROM upgrade as Eten recently did for the G500


  4. Standard connections : good news, gone are the proprietary connections of the N5X0 series, FSC now uses miniUSB for connecting to a PC and recharging, the MMCX format for the external GPS antenna (previously the rare SSMB) and a 3.5mm audio/mic jack


  5. Powerful removable battery : the removable Li-Ion battery looks like the one used in the the Qtek 9000/i-Mate JasJar although it is rated at 1530mAh versus the 1600mAh of the JasJar, but associated with the small 2.6" screen the battery life should be quite good, more on that in the next few days. [b]UPDATED 07/15[b] : Ran my usual battery life test (full GPS+full BackLight) and I was a bit disappointed to find it turn off at 5h10' when it still had 30% at 5h00...a bit like on the G500 with the sudden drop. Will give it another try.


  6. GPS Software Compatibility : Ran Route 66 Navigate 7 directly from the SD card but I was disappointed to find that neither TomTom v5 or iGO 2006 run on the T830. TT5 generates a gwes.exe error and the display in iGo is "compressed" to the point where it is not usable. This is odd because it runs fine on the similarly square screened HP hw6515.


  7. PocketPC Software Compatibility: each time I test a PDA I install my "favorite" apps: SPBPocketPLUS, RescoExplorer, Xbar, ScreenshotCE, CE Monitor, VisualGPS, GPRS Monitor and I'm happy to report that there were no problems with either of them


Questions, comments ?

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igalan

Spain
358 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2006 :  09:30:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow! You're getting a lot of new "toys" lately, and before anyone else . I see this post getting a lot of attention .

This PDA phone would be a lot better if it had a standard screen. Apart from that it has all the features one can expect: GPS, WiFi, Bluetooth, 3G, GSM phone. I loof forward the full review (which I expect to take a while, considering the one of the F-S N100 ).

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Qtek 9100, F-S Loox 720, GlobalSat BT338, Haicom HI303III, TomTom Navigator 5
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igalan

Spain
358 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2006 :  09:32:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
BTW, this is a prototype, isn't it? I have read that the final version won't have the black bezel around the screen, it will feature a larger screen.

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Qtek 9100, F-S Loox 720, GlobalSat BT338, Haicom HI303III, TomTom Navigator 5
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admin_0

1 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2006 :  09:40:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry the T810/820 is NOT the first PDAPhone with GPS and 3G! The Motorola A920/925 3G phone with built in GPS was released in the end of 2004 followed by the improved A1000.

The Motorola has AGPS support and is running the Symbian operating system with UIQ graphical interface (like the Ericsson P9xx series).

The only problem beeing lack of programs supporting the built in GPS.

/Stefan

Here is a short list of program supporting the built in GPS
1) Wayfinder
2) nhGPS
3) PowerNavigation 2
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igalan

Spain
358 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2006 :  09:42:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Now that you ask, I'd like to see if it's fast and responsive for GPS navigation, that is, there is no lag on the navigation program. And how is battery life and phone coverage compared to other phones (as good as any other, worse, better?). I hope I'm not asking too much .

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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2006 :  13:45:37  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No, the hardware appears to be final (came in the retail box), the ROM will likely change to include SIF though, see my comment about the screen in the comments, someone made that comment about a "larger screen" after 3GSM in the PPCthoughts forums, but there was nothing to back it up as far as I know.

GPS performance is being tested out, looks good, better than on the N5x0 series, obviously TTFF is not as good as on the A701 that has SIF. Currently testing battery life as with the other PDAPhones (full backlight+full GPS), looking very good, probably around 7 hours, the big battery and small screen are going to help with that.

@dalstorp - I see your point, but technically speaking the Motorola would be a "Smartphone" as opposed to a PDAPhone, like the Siemens SGX 75. As you point out, you can do a lot more with a WM PDAPhone than with either of these two. The A780 might be 3G too, not sure. GPS wise they were designed to get the assistance of an AGPS network, problem is that Europe does not have any operational AGPS GSM networks unlike the USA so using a GPS is pretty frustrating, my SXG 75 often needs 5+ minutes to get a fix outdoors which is unacceptable by today's standards.

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igalan

Spain
358 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2006 :  14:01:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The pictures at http://www.fujitsu-siemens.com/products/mobile/handhelds/pocket_loox_t_series.html show a larger screen with a thiner bezel...

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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2006 :  14:10:11  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Pictures or "rendering" ? Looks like the latter to me. We shall see, but there is certainly no indication that the hardware will change or that they would have launched the T830 at 3GSM with a non final design, my "retail box" test model confirms this logical assumption ;-)

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igalan

Spain
358 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2006 :  14:18:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well It doesn't matter that much. Going from 2,6" to 2,65" or 2,7" isn't big deal anyway. It's just weird thet someone at F-S said that the final model will have a bigger screen, but after all it seems this isn't going to be true.

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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2006 :  16:19:24  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
True and at the end of the day, the smaller the sreen, the longer the battery life.

Ongoing testing : 4h30' = 39% battery left, that compares well with the G500 and A701 that had pretty much run out by that time.

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WDawn

Belgium
7 Posts

Posted - 15 juil. 2006 :  13:35:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Finally a good review on this wonderfull device! Thank you!

One question: in the programs section is there a program called "SAP settings" or "SIM settings"? I'd like to know if the device is "remote sim access" compatible. That is very important for my bleutooth carkit.

Thanks again for the review!
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lsmith

Germany
7 Posts

Posted - 15 juil. 2006 :  17:48:59  Show Profile  Visit lsmith's Homepage  Reply with Quote
thx for the review!

I have a few questions:
1) do you have any way to confirm HSDPA support on the UMTS module?
2) can you confirm that A2DP profile being support by the bluetooth stack?
3) what was the final result of your battery test?
4) i have heard rumors that WLAN and GSM/UMTS cannot be used simultaneously, can you confirm this?
5) do you know if, and if how, you can make use of TMC information with this deveice?
6) do you know if there is any word about a bundle with some navigation software?
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WDawn

Belgium
7 Posts

Posted - 15 juil. 2006 :  18:15:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
2 more questions:

How is the quality of conversations by phone?
How is the camera performing?

Thnx!
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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 16 juil. 2006 :  01:29:21  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
"roger" your questions, I will take a closer look tomorrow.
On the battery life (full GPS+full BL) I was a bit disappointed to find it turn off at 5h10' when it still had 30% at 5h00...a bit like on the G500 with the sudden drop. Will give it another try.

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lsmith

Germany
7 Posts

Posted - 16 juil. 2006 :  09:49:54  Show Profile  Visit lsmith's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hmm, seems odd considering that WM5 does not need such precautions.
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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 17 juil. 2006 :  16:20:27  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, bad calibration it seems.

Anyway, here we go:

@WDawn -
1. no such SIM related programs I'm afraid, keep in mind that this is not the final ROM though
2. Phone quality appears to be normal, no problems mentioned by the people I talked to.
3. Camera, haven't tried, judging by the "lens" usual crappy quality I would think.

@lsmith
1. No access to HSDPA sorry
2. They are using the WidComm stack (v1.71) and I can't see any BT Stereo/ADP profile I'm afraid
3. see above, a disappointing 5 hours
4. Correct, if WiFi is active you can't dial out and if you are connected via GPRS/3G, using WiFi will disonnect you
5. Not natively, no, will requite a BT GPS with TMC like the GNS 5843
6. They show Navigon 5 on their site.


OTHER : noticed that the 3G connexion tended to "freeze" (no more connetivity) and it requires a soft reset.

Here's another pic, 2.6" square vs 4" 16/9




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