Google
  Web www.gpspassion.com


GpsPasSion LIVE!
www.flickr.com
This is a Flickr badge showing public photos from GpsPasSion Live !. Make your own badge here.

www.NaviBlog.com



Versions

Links/Liens




Portal/Portail
Rechercher

- -

Polls/Sondages
Sondage
Pour vous guider sur la Route :
GPS Mobile (SEM)
GPS Intégré
Smartphone
Autre
Voter  -  Résultat des votes
Votes : 2402




Club GpsPasSion
Soutenez le site!

USA: (US$)
EUROPE: (€)
Guide Paypal


GpsPasSion Forums
Home | Profile | Register/Enregist. | Active Topics | Search/Recherche | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Mapopolis Official Forum
 News
 PPC 4.71 "Fanfare" back up
 Forum Locked
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

lamar@mapopolis.com

USA
2508 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2006 :  18:16:22  Show Profile  Visit lamar@mapopolis.com's Homepage
Hi, folks,

4.71 is back up.

http://www.kudzumonthly.com/mapopolis/PPC/4.71Final/

and download this:

Mapopolis_Pocket_PC_v4.71.05_Setup.exe

Version 4.71.05 or 4.71 Final

* This fixes a memory error that should remove a source of crashes.

Version 4.71.04 "Single Track" 13 June 2006

* Fixes bug with using the Irish major roads map to open county maps
This applies to any region where they use the form "County X" instead of "X County" in naming their counties.

Version 4.71.03 "Sea Train" 27 Apr 2006

All Platforms:
* Fixes cosmetic bug in Color Settings window which failed to consider DST when showing the times of dawn/dusk
* Fixes bug which prevented the satellite display from updating while waiting for a fix
* Fixes bug setting the default value of the "Use GAPI" option which had been incorrectly turned off by default for most users

Pocket PC:
* (Treo 700w) Fixes bug which prevented the use of three POI categories in the Find All Places By Type window on Pocket PCs with square displays (petrol/gasoline stations, tourist attractions, and sports complex)

PPC Diagnostic Edition:
* Fixes bug which made this edition unable to save/load settings due to assertion failures
* Adds diagnostics intended to find the cause of the "GPS Update" crashes (WM 32770 in the crash logs)


Version 4.71.02 "Laika" 25 Apr 2006

* Adds new option to "[X] Use GAPI for Video Performance" in order to turn off GAPI if undesired. It is not possible to turn on GAPI if it is off by default.
* Fixes incompatibility with the WM5 GPS applet control panel so that virtual ports now work in Mapopolis, including GPD1
* Fixes bugs in the data validation for GGA sentences in GPS data
* Fixes GPS dead zones along 1 degree south latitude, and 1 degree east longitude (no longer uses -1 as an error code)
* Fixes bug which caused the PPC title bar to appear at the same time as a Proximity Alert message box
* Improves error handling for GPS "zero" data
* Shows "GPS Not Responding (COMn:)" over the navigation pane, instead of "Not Responding"
* Improves speed of data validation used for setting the clock from GPS data
* Increases diagnostic build life from 14 days to 30 days from when they are built.
* Changes "[X] Blink LED at Index [list]" to "Select LED or vibrator [list]" with the added list option "NONE" to disable the feature in the absence of the removed checkbox
* Changes the Set Clock from GPS Data feature to allow the clock to be out of sync by up to 2 seconds from the GPS (to improve performance/speed issues).
* Fixes incorrect window title on the Sounds Settings window

Version 4.71.01 "Learning to Fly" 6 Apr 2006

FEATURES:

* Restructures backend of Landmark and Street/Address searching (search result data management)
* Enhances Find Contacts
- searches by zip code when possible
- searches by city when possible (fixes bugs)
- automatically searches unopened maps for the address, if not found among open maps
* Enhances alphabetical sorting to sort by distance when names match in Find Address, Find Intersection, Find Place or Business.
* Enhances Text-To-Speech to recognize "Ext" as an abbreviation for "Extension"
* Enhances the speed of Finding Contiguous Maps (from >20 minutes to <4 seconds with 1GB of maps), and replaced the related status window with the standard animated wait cursor.

CHANGES:

* Changes default option for "Set Clock from GPS" This is now OFF by default.
* Moves the Map Colors Settings window contents to the left (cosmetic change)
* Changes the Set Clock from GPS Data feature to do nothing at all if asked to change the current year
* Changes the Set Clock from GPS Data feature to set the clock after 30 seconds has passed, instead of after every 20th GPS data cycle

BUG FIXES:

* Fixes bug with mismatched "On or Near Street" text showing incorrect information in Find Place or Business
* Fixes bug that allowed the last-entered Find Address search to affect the Find Contacts search results and default data shown when Find Contacts fails and opens Find Address
* Fixes bug with horizontal scroll bars not scroll list-view contents
* Fixes cosmetic bug in the display of Dawn/Dusk times to include padding zeros, as is the usual tradition when writing the time
* Fixes truncated text "Show Automatically requires GPS" which should now fit entirely on the display
* Fixes truncated text in the warning message about duplicate map files
* Fixes bug in error message which would incorrectly say that a voice file did not exist when the real problem was something else, such as a lack of memory
* Fixes bug that showed "x/y/z" in the status box window
* Adds data validation for GPS time stamps, to avoid using wildly incorrect time values to set the clock such as all-zeroes, or day 32 of a month, etc
* Fixes potential buffer overrun error in the Set Clock from GPS Data feature
* Fixes cosmetic issues with the size of the list boxes in Hardware Settings and Find Place or Business/Landmark windows
* Fixes bug when starting GPS, either manually or automatically, which failed to honor the option to Retry Failed Connections forever
* Fixes bug which would show the GPS Diagnostic message when tapping on the menubar - it now checks for the upper AND LOWER bound of the Not Responding strip for this screen tap response

Lamar

"Travel is the frivolous part of serious lives, and the serious part of frivolous ones." -- Anne Sophie Swetchine

Edited by - lamar@mapopolis.com on 12 juil. 2006 14:45:40

Ads


AllanHvass

Denmark
396 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2006 :  19:21:37  Show Profile
Is this a PPC only beta release? There was a number of Smartphone specific bugs outstanding, that didn't get fixed for the 4.7 release, that was promised to be taken care of as part of the next beta round.

Other than that, great to see the ball rolling again :-)

And welcome back Lamar!

Best regards
Allan Hvass

Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit
Go to Top of Page

Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2006 :  20:18:13  Show Profile
Hi Allan,

Smartphone is included in the new beta and fixes several bugs. Please check out the Beta thread for the Smartphone beta discussion.
Go to Top of Page

Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2006 :  20:25:03  Show Profile
On second thought, I don't see an updated topic for the new beta under the Beta forum where we usually discuss Smartphone, so here are the Smartphone additions to the list above:

* (Smartphone) Fixes error 5041 on resulting from the presence of duplicate maps in the system
* (Smartphone) Fixes bug in Find Address window which caused the last letter entered in the search text to be ignored
* (Smartphone) Fixes bug which swapped the meaning of the Select Address and Select Intersection commands when finding a route
Go to Top of Page

Dr_StrangeTrick

United Kingdom
379 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2006 :  20:59:16  Show Profile
Hi Ris, not sure weather to post SmartPhone issues here so forgive me if I am wrong.

4.7.01 whenever you press Done on the choose map screen the phone 'doinks'

When not navigating pressing This location now brings up a two line panel. The bottom line has the information for this location and the top line says Not Responding etc in red letters

The search mechanism now works correctly. I.E. it start to search after you press a key (also seems faster )

This was the same in 4.70RC4, when I press my hotkey for GPS it takes me straight to the satellite status screen rather than the gps page

I don't know if this is intentional but when not navigating and after searching for a favourite the crosshair disappears for a few seconds then comes back

Minor cosmetic issue still remains with editing POI's on QVGA screens.

Otherwise looks good


Orange C550, TomTom BT GPS
Go to Top of Page

gordias

United Kingdom
137 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2006 :  22:03:06  Show Profile
Testing 4.71 now - I already checked and the GPS hardware button toggle is still broken like I reported.

Qtek 9090 WM2003SE / GlobalSat BT 338 GPS
Go to Top of Page

Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2006 :  22:25:18  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by gordias

Testing 4.71 now - I already checked and the GPS hardware button toggle is still broken like I reported.

Qtek 9090 WM2003SE / GlobalSat BT 338 GPS

Hi Gordias, I'm sorry, but I'm not able to reproduce this problem. Do you have any other commands mapped to the same button from other software? Do you have the Use As Global Hotkeys option turned on or off?
EDIT: Also, are you able to access the GPS windows using the main menu instead of the hardware button?

Edited by - Ris on 06 avr. 2006 23:00:35
Go to Top of Page

AllanHvass

Denmark
396 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2006 :  22:51:27  Show Profile
I can confirm most of Dr. Strangetricks observations. Though I've not connected to my GPS tonight, so aspects related to that will have to wait for tomorrow.

It's true: Searching is MUCH faster on the Smartphone Unscientific observation would say twice as fast at least. Might as well add that as a feature.

And search dialogue works now - searches as in the old times as soon as keys are pressed.

I have to please please in this area though: Automatically switch input mode to "abc" if it's at "T9" or something else. Someone posted the code for doing here at the forum some months back. And even more importantly: Could we please make the city/zip field to take input rather than just paging up/down?

When I press the button I've mapped to GPS Communication, I go to that screen and not the Satellite screen. So it seems OK to me.

The titles of some of the settings windows are still "crazy" and not identical to what's in the menu. E.g. try going to the Sounds settings screen and whatch what it shows in the window title...

Feels like we're shaking out the last few bugs and getting ready to move towards new improvements. Can't wait...

Best regards
Allan Hvass

Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit
Go to Top of Page

Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2006 :  22:57:07  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Dr_StrangeTrick

4.7.01 whenever you press Done on the choose map screen the phone 'doinks'

When not navigating pressing This location now brings up a two line panel. The bottom line has the information for this location and the top line says Not Responding etc in red letters
Please correct me if I'm wrong...

1) you have Mapopolis set to start GPS at program startup

2) you have started Mapopolis without the GPS hardware available

3) 4.71.01 adds the following change:
* Fixes bug when starting GPS, either manually or automatically, which failed to honor the option to Retry Failed Connections Forever

Maybe I should clarify about this change: it also now tries 3 times automatically before giving up entirely, even without the option to Retry Forever, where previously it only tried once.

4) It shows "Not Responding" over the This Location panel to remind you that GPS is active in Mapopolis but the hardware is not responding. On Pocket PC, tapping on this strip brings up a message with more information and a button to automatically soft-reset which can sometimes fix bluetooth connection death. On Smartphone, there's no touch screen, and the OS doesn't provide the soft reset API, so that feature is unavailable, but it still shows "Not Responding" to let you know there is a GPS problem.

5) I think it bonked at you after choosing maps because GPS was active in Mapopolis, it tried to center on the current position, but it had no fix, so it bonked to let you know there is a GPS problem.

Does that answer your question and solve your problem?

quote:
The search mechanism now works correctly. I.E. it start to search after you press a key (also seems faster )
Yay! Actually it *should* be a little faster for several reasons, so I'm glad that it's noticable.

quote:
This was the same in 4.70RC4, when I press my hotkey for GPS it takes me straight to the satellite status screen rather than the gps page
Ah I'm sorry for not explaining sooner. This is actually a "feature" that the Smartphone edition inherited from the Pocket PC edition somewhere in the 4.6x betas. The hardware button for "GPS" remembers whether you were last viewing Data or Satellites.

To get it unstuck from the satellite display, view the GPS data window by any other mechanism, for example from the Satellite display, go to Menu > View GPS Data > Done ... now when you press your hardware button for "GPS" it should go to the Data display.

quote:
I don't know if this is intentional but when not navigating and after searching for a favourite the crosshair disappears for a few seconds then comes back
Not intentional - I suspect it is confused because GPS is running without a fix. We'll fix that.

quote:
Minor cosmetic issue still remains with editing POI's on QVGA screens.
OK, hmmm, I'm not getting that on my SPVe200. This was one of those things I had hoped was fixed indirectly. Oh well, I'll check the code for anything suspicious. Thanks for letting us know it's still there.

Wait a sec... your C550... is that a square display 240x240, 92-DPI, WM2003SE? The squareness may be the significant detail I was overlooking...

quote:
Otherwise looks good
Great thanks!


Best Regards,
Ris

Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
Mapopolis.com Inc

C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
Go to Top of Page

gdio53

USA
63 Posts

Posted - 07 avr. 2006 :  01:23:05  Show Profile
One small bug.
I have it set to change day/night colors automatically, but the times shown in the Map Colors menu are off by one hour. I live in a time zone that observes DST, Mapopolis shows 18:22 as the time to change, when it should be 19:22

Thanks,

Gary

Dell Axim X50v | BT-338 | Lexar 1gb SD
Go to Top of Page

gordias

United Kingdom
137 Posts

Posted - 07 avr. 2006 :  02:38:24  Show Profile
Hi Ris,
I unreservedly withdraw the complaint After a soft reset I am getting the old, stable behaviour. Click GPS and I see the satellite display; right or left arrows to cycle through the other GPS screens; click GPS again and if not displaying GPS status or satellites then I am taken back to satellites, click once more for back to map, or else straight back to map on the second click. If that all makes sense?!

Either way all is well. By the way, no I do not have use as Global Hot Keys checked. This also means that my OK button (mapped to GPS) functions as OK whenever the title bar shows (I normally do not display it). Thus permitting easier use of Mapopolis menus without needing to poke at corners of the screen, whilst we are waiting for nice chunky on-screen buttons you understand

Many thanks for your continued engagement and support.

Qtek 9090 WM2003SE / GlobalSat BT 338 GPS
Go to Top of Page

Dr_StrangeTrick

United Kingdom
379 Posts

Posted - 07 avr. 2006 :  06:57:41  Show Profile
Hi Ris, thanks for your reply.

I know what the red strip is telling me, perhaps I should have explained that in 4.70RC4 this red strip never appeared. If I went to the satellite page and checked in there it would say not running etc. What I mean to say is this extra line is taking up a chunk of the screen and if possible could this be removed if Mapopolis has been started without an active GPS connection I.E. if you are just browsing your maps.

Thanks for speeding up the searches and for explaining the satellite page (I have been testing external antennas)

With reference to the crosshair I was not complaining I actually like it like that, nothing to clutter up the screen. Maybe this could become permanent and only bring the crosshair back when you press 'This Location' as it serves no purpose without the this location panel open

Also the C550 is QVGA that is 320x220 not square. Check my previous post here but like I said its only cosmetic and does not affect the function of the software at all.

Like Alan I have not tried this version driving yet, but I will today.

Many thanks.



Orange C550, TomTom BT GPS
Go to Top of Page

AllanHvass

Denmark
396 Posts

Posted - 07 avr. 2006 :  09:32:10  Show Profile
So I've found the most crazy set of bugs in the dawn/dusk switching feature! Sorry to even bring this up again

First issue:
When I start Mapopolis without having the GPS turned on, it shows that dawn/dusk switching will occur at 6:12/19:51. Local almanac says sunrise/sunset today is 6.28 / 19:57, so overall that seems quite reasonable.

BUT! As soon as I turn on the GPS - no matter whether there's a satellite link or not - Mapopolis now says it will switch at 5:22/19:01 !!!! It winds back 50 min. (I'm almost certain, but it could also have been 60 min.).

Second issue:
When running without GPS connected and having a stated dawn/dusk switching at 6:12/19:51, I try to verify this by changing the time on my Smartphone and starting Mapopolis. This experiment shows, that it will actually not change the day/night colour at the displayed time, but instead at 7:12/20:51!!!!

I'm in the GMT+1 time zone, and we have changed to Daylight Savings Time (DST). So these bugs is probably related to either one or the other as both is about adding/subtracting 1 hour with regards of displayed time vs. actual time. I haven't been able to test yet, but given that Mapopolis changes switching time back about 1 hour when having the GPS connected and at the same time changes day/night colours 1 hour later than displayed, it would probably mean that it will actually happen at the right time with the GPS connected. But it won't when the GPS is not connected, and the switch time displayed is not the same as what is actually used.

On a side note, I still continue to experience that Mapopolis stops responding when in subscreens from the main screen and I have to kill it from a task manager or even turn off the phone. This bug is getting annoying.

Best regards
Allan Hvass

Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit
Go to Top of Page

pocket1

21 Posts

Posted - 07 avr. 2006 :  15:23:33  Show Profile
Some recent problems with the latest (4.71.01). BTW, great work on support!:
1. checking 'set time from GPS' option causes Mapopolis to use up most CPU. This seems to be low priority as it doesn't seem to slow down any functionality but it does drain battery significantly. To verify CPU use freeware xscalemonitor at http://www.freewareppc.com/utilities/xscalemonitor.shtml
Unchecking the option will bring down CPU usage almost immediately.

2. With 'retry GPS connection forrever', bring up Mapopolis with no GPS connected. Try to type in an address in 'search address', and often, the keyboard will lose focus on the input textbox. This only happens when the GPS is not connected. If you have trouble getting this behavior, try opening an application such as contacts before opening Mapopolis. Also, occassionally, the Mapopolis screen will suddenly switch to another running program -- this also happens only when the GPS is not connected. This problem basically means (for me) that Mapopolis needs to be shut down whenever not connected to GPS.
Go to Top of Page

mswlogo

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 07 avr. 2006 :  18:05:07  Show Profile
[quote
- searches by zip code when possible
- searches by city when possible (fixes bugs)
[/quote]

As you would expect, I'm thrilled you guys started working on this.

I tried several contact addresses and some work excellent (i.e. fast). But some other addresses now no longer work at all.

Here is one that no longer works (remember this is from a contact address and it's under Work). This is in the MiddleSex MA Map.

50 Union Ave
Sudbury, MA 01776

I tried to find it with the normal street finder and it works fine. When using Contacts it pops up the hourglass for what appears too short a time (compared to ones that worked), then shows a map it's searching briefly and then returns to the map view where I last left it. With no error or anything.

Update:

I did some more testing. I tested more addresses near where I knew address worked and they worked. Then I tested more addresses near an address that didn't work and they did not work. So I thought perhaps it had to do with order of maps or something. So I loaded only the map of the town that didn't work (Middlesex MA) and the address above (50 Union Ave) now started to work (well I thought it did). This is what's really strange is if I zoom out on the map after a look up. There is a dozen or so of those little purple and blue "location" houses all over the map. Like it found the contact address in a dozen places (different zip codes) and marked them all. And when you click on them they all have the last contact address I just looked up.

So figured out what's going on. If the street address is unique with in all the maps (or map, not sure) it works. But if it's not unique instead of bringing up the list for you to pick from. It marks them all on the map. Now it also appears it's not using the zip code because if it was the address is unique and should only mark one.

One other thing I noticed that when I select my one map, I often went in again to check and another map was selected that I know I didn't select. It so happens to be the first map that gets automagically selected.

Hope this helps.

Update 2:

Wiped everything.
Loaded MiddleSex MA, Worcester MA, Grafton NH and Major Roads NH, MA.
Looked up contact at 50 Union Ave, Sudbury MA 01776. It put a bunch of purple houses in Worcester MA and Grafton NH but not in MiddleSex MA (where it actually was). I unloaded Worcester MA, looked up again and now it found 3 or so in Middlsex MA.

By the way I have switched devices to a PPC-6700 (ROM 2) which is WM5.

Edited by - mswlogo on 10 avr. 2006 18:27:11
Go to Top of Page

twebdonny

10 Posts

Posted - 07 avr. 2006 :  20:25:03  Show Profile
Any idea why my anti-spyware flags the 4.7.01 app as a trojan generic?

I'm sure it's not, but for some reason it flags it.


Using Adelphia's Freedom Anti-Virus

Thanks
Go to Top of Page

Dr_StrangeTrick

United Kingdom
379 Posts

Posted - 07 avr. 2006 :  21:33:04  Show Profile
Hi Ris tried it driving and I got the moving North up mag again. When I pressed Route to Favourite and picked Home the map was track up again.


Orange C550, TomTom BT GPS
Go to Top of Page

Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 08 avr. 2006 :  01:32:42  Show Profile
Hi Dr. Strangetrick,

I see what you mean about the cosmetic issue with the Edit Landmarks icon selector, from your screenshot, I just meant to say it's not happening to me. The weird thing is that my Orange SPVe200 has the same stats as your C550 (portrait mode, VGA, Smartphone WM2003SE, 320x240, 92-DPI) and yet it looks fine on the SPVe200 but not on the C550... It will take time to figure out why.

---

Hi Allan,

Your observations match a previous observation that DST is not recognized by this feature. I think it's just a simple cosmetic problem of showing the wrong values in the Color Settings window.

The clock inside the Pocket PC keeps time in units of GMT/UT time, and the calculations we use for dawn and dusk times are also calculated in GMT units, so the local time zone and DST don't normally apply. However, the Color Settings window shows the equivalent LOCAL time, which is more useful to you, even though the underlying calculations don't really care what time zone you are in. This means I expect 4.71.01 to change colors at the correct time (when it gets dark around you), instead of an hour early as reported on the Color Settings window.

Apparently, we have neglected to check the DST flag and adjust the resulting time accordingly - only for what we SHOW on the Color Settings window - not for the actual switching of the colors. This will be easy to fix, and I thank you for bringing it to our attention.

quote:
Any idea why my anti-spyware flags the 4.7.01 app as a trojan generic?

I'm sure it's not, but for some reason it flags it.

Using Adelphia's Freedom Anti-Virus
The previous version was also reportedly flagged as a trojan.generic by an anti-virus program... maybe by you? I'm sorry I don't remember now. It's really hard to say why. I see several possible reasons...

1) Maybe the file has been corrupted between leaving my hands and reaching yours. I doubt this is the case because this was reported with the previous version as well, and it's very unlikely that a randomly roving internet program would infect the file again (or is it?) I scanned the kudzu files last time this was reported, and they were fine.

2) Maybe you have a trojan virus on your computer which is corrupting all downloads, or all files with "setup.exe in the file name". Does your anti-virus complain about any other files you have downloaded recently? Have you performed a full system scan?

3) Mapopolis may have some harmful side effect or flaw which your anti-virus software has identified. This might normally manifest as a bug of any kind, like maybe some of the crashing conditions that we're already talking about. If your anti-virus saw something suspicious, then I would certainly like to know what it was that it found. In fact, I was so interested that I googled it. Alas, all of the Adelphia websites lock this information behind login credentials, and I'm not an Adelphia subscriber, so I can't search the Adelphia websites for their definition of a "trojan generic" to see what kinds of suspicious programming practices they might be looking for. If you have a "more info" link or anything available to you when your anti-virus tells you that Mapopolis is a potential trojan.generic, please follow it and give us any information you find about what they might be looking for. It might help is answer this question.

4) Maybe Adelphia's Freedom Anti-Virus is just overzealous. A lot of the free anti-virus programs suffer from overmatching like this as well, like the very oldest anti-virus programs, where they flag completely safe programs as viruses because they found something just very slightly suspicious.

Having been the victim of some very painful data-loss viruses in the past, I would urge you to take any anti-virus warnings very seriously and take every step to ensure that the file you have is safe before using it. I can assure you that the files we distribute are virus-free. I scan then with Norton Anti-Virus 2006. I'm not sure if Lamar scans them. Kudzumonthly.com might have an automated daily scan in place, which is a common practice for web hosts. But it's possible that you are pre-infected from an unrelated source if other downloads are also reported as infected. But if Mapopolis is the only thing it's flagging as a trojan, then it's probably just picking up on something in our software that it thinks is suspicious. I really couldn't guess what, exactly, it's responding to, but I really don't think Mapopolis 4.71.01 poses any threat to your system.

If it helps, the setup.exe for the standard Pocket PC installer should be exactly 8,651,269 bytes. (due to segmenting, on disk this is 8,654,848 for me)
Go to Top of Page

Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 08 avr. 2006 :  01:43:26  Show Profile
Hi mswlogo, thanks for going to so much trouble to acquire and post all this info. I am processing it and looking for the problem
Go to Top of Page

Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 08 avr. 2006 :  01:55:08  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Dr_StrangeTrick

Hi Ris tried it driving and I got the moving North up map again. When I pressed Route to Favourite and picked Home the map was track up again.

Awwww Maaaannnn. Well, I'm disappointed, but not too surprised... Since you seem to encounter this problem more than anyone else, would you mind running a diagnostic build to find more info for us? If you're up for it, then please email support to get in touch with me, because we don't have a standard diagnostic build for Smartphone, which means I'll have to make a custom diagnostic build for you and this bug.
Go to Top of Page

Larrysabo

Canada
138 Posts

Posted - 08 avr. 2006 :  04:24:32  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by twebdonny

Any idea why my anti-spyware flags the 4.7.01 app as a trojan generic?

I'm sure it's not, but for some reason it flags it.

Using Adelphia's Freedom Anti-Virus

Thanks

To check the file against almost all anti-virus scanners, send a copy to www.virustotal.com. Their server will analyze it and post the results.

Cheers,
Larry

Edit: I just submitted my file and got back the following report:

Results of a file scan

This is a report processed by VirusTotal on 04/08/2006 at 04:32:16 (CET) after scanning the file "Mapopolis_Pocket_PC_v4.71.01_Setup.exe" file.
AntivirusVersionUpdateResult
AntiVir6.34.0.2404.07.2006no virus found
Avast4.6.695.004.03.2006no virus found
AVG38604.07.2006no virus found
Avira6.34.0.5604.07.2006no virus found
BitDefender7.204.08.2006no virus found
CAT-QuickHeal8.0004.06.2006no virus found
ClamAVdevel-2006020204.07.2006no virus found
DrWeb 4.3304.07.2006no virus found
eTrust-InoculateIT23.71.12304.07.2006no virus found
eTrust-Vet12.4.215304.07.2006no virus found
Ewido3.504.07.2006no virus found
Fortinet2.71.0.004.08.2006no virus found
<

I also submitted it to http://virusscan.jotti.org and all of its virus scanner found no virus. They have the best scanners available, including Kaspersky and NOD32, so if they don't find a virus, there is none.

Axim X51V 624MHz WM5 A06, Haicom 303III SiRF III, Mapopolois 4.71.01 Beta, Gomadic mount

Edited by - Larrysabo on 08 avr. 2006 05:03:51
Go to Top of Page

Dr_StrangeTrick

United Kingdom
379 Posts

Posted - 08 avr. 2006 :  08:17:57  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Ris

The weird thing is that my Orange SPVe200 has the same stats as your C550 (portrait mode, VGA, Smartphone WM2003SE, 320x240, 92-DPI)


Hi Ris, you are wrong there, the E200 (I still have one) is not QVGA and the screen size is 176x220 so thats probably why the page looks fine on your device.


Orange C550, TomTom BT GPS
Go to Top of Page

AllanHvass

Denmark
396 Posts

Posted - 08 avr. 2006 :  17:29:31  Show Profile
Hi Ris - I think you missed my praise, status and error report on page 1, as I posted just a few minutes before your reply to Dr. Strangetrick. So I repeat a couple of the issues again together with a few new bugs:

  • Occasional hangups when in subscreens of the main program. I still suspect this is related to change of state in e.g. GPS which occassionally moves focus to another window without updating the screen. The program is not really dead, it will still update the screen, but the shown window no longer react to input.
  • Search for County as a category returns nothing - this would otherwise be highly useful as it would help locate the "diamonds" to load each county map
  • In all category lists the word "Place" appears - also in Danish, i.e. it´s not translated either. But I think there was some debate about some months ago, however I forgot what the conclusion was. But wasn't it supposed to get removed? What would searching for "Place" signify. In any case a search for "Place" returns nothing
  • Title for several of the Settings screens doesn't match the name used in the Settings menu, and in a few cases haven't even got any relation to the settings. E.g. try going to the Sounds settings screen and watch the title...
  • The split highway bug is still there as I'm sure you know
  • Your explanation about displaying dawn/dusk times certainly explain one of the two bugs I reported in this area, but not the other one about the displayed time changes 50 min. back when connecting the GPS versus not having it connected. Any ideas for that one?
  • Selecting Language in the Program Options screen by moving the joystick sideways instead of pressing the action button to get to the list of languages leaves a "Language" text in the input field instead of the actual language. After that, the you can't move left/right with the joystick on that input field.


These are really the only bugs I'm aware of at the moment on my platform, so we're really getting close to a very solid version that makes it possible to focus on the bigger feature improvements

A few improvements I beg for:
  • The City/Zip box in search windows are made searchable with character input rather than just page up / down
  • Switch to Abc input mode rather than T9 for all inputs in Mapopolis, I see no places where T9 is helpful. Someone posted the code to do it in the forum a few months ago
  • Ability to change zoom level of map when driving with GPS on but not active route, just as it's possible when guidance is active. Right now it switches back to the default zoom level after approx. 5 sec.


Best regards
Allan Hvass

Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit

Edited by - AllanHvass on 08 avr. 2006 17:42:41
Go to Top of Page

Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 08 avr. 2006 :  23:23:04  Show Profile
Hi Allan, thanks I've noted your bug reports.

quote:
  • Search for County as a category returns nothing - this would otherwise be highly useful as it would help locate the "diamonds" to load each county map
  • In all category lists the word "Place" appears - also in Danish, i.e. it´s not translated either. But I think there was some debate about some months ago, however I forgot what the conclusion was. But wasn't it supposed to get removed? What would searching for "Place" signify. In any case a search for "Place" returns nothing

  • Counties are listed under either the Place or Named Place category, depending on whether you are looking in a county detail map or a major-roads map. This is how Navteq does it. We are considering various options for how to make it more user-friendly.

    quote:
  • Your explanation about displaying dawn/dusk times certainly explain one of the two bugs I reported in this area, but not the other one about the displayed time changes 50 min. back when connecting the GPS versus not having it connected. Any ideas for that one?

  • By turning on the GPS, you gave entirely new input to the dawn/dusk calculation including your global position and the date and time (if the set clock feature is on). The date and time probably did not change enough to make a difference, but I suspect that your last-stored GPS position was far enough away from your new position that they have dawn/dusk 10 minutes sooner. Then, I suppose something related to DST must have kicked in to offset it by another hour, resulting in a net 50 minute change.

    quote:
    A few improvements I beg for:
    • The City/Zip box in search windows are made searchable with character input rather than just page up / down
    • Switch to Abc input mode rather than T9 for all inputs in Mapopolis, I see no places where T9 is helpful. Someone posted the code to do it in the forum a few months ago
    • Ability to change zoom level of map when driving with GPS on but not active route, just as it's possible when guidance is active. Right now it switches back to the default zoom level after approx. 5 sec.

    These are good suggestions, and are all planned for a future version as soon as time allows.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    mswlogo

    USA
    109 Posts

    Posted - 09 avr. 2006 :  00:59:55  Show Profile
    quote:

    The City/Zip box in search windows are made searchable with character input rather than just page up / down



    This would be very slick indeed. When you have a lot of maps loaded the the scroll list is very difficult to use.

    Go to Top of Page

    AllanHvass

    Denmark
    396 Posts

    Posted - 09 avr. 2006 :  16:26:18  Show Profile
    Hi Ris,

    You're right that counties are indeed in the maps, if I search by "All Categories" I will find them. However, I don't find them under either the County, Named Place or Place categories, so they're categorized differently. Oh well...

    Regarding the dawn / dusk switching: The displayed time to switch changes backwards 50min. as soon as I connect the GPS, and changes forwards again 50min. as soon as I disconnect the GPS. This can be done totally consistently in an endless loop. So I think there's more to it than just a question of 1 hour off due to DST and 10 min. off due to last time since a GPS fix. Possibly it could be related to that Mapopolis does not use the last position for calculating dawn / dusk but rather switches back to the GMT longitude when there's no GPS fix?

    Also - the time displayed, is that supposed to be the time the switching will take place or just when dawn / dusk is calculated to occur? Are they supposed to be the same? In any case, I think there's still some bugs left in this area, but let's solve them one at a time, starting with the fix for DST correction in the displayed time. I will report back other issues during the next betas, when that has been fixed.

    Notice I uses the Smartphone, so local change of time is not a feature, but it may also mean that not all the same fixes as in the PPC platform has made it to the Smartphone version?


    Best regards
    Allan Hvass

    Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit
    Go to Top of Page

    irishjohn

    Ireland
    141 Posts

    Posted - 09 avr. 2006 :  16:56:10  Show Profile
    Hi Ris

    Just back from the sticks, downloaded 4.7.01 still have the problem that when I go down that new motorway it will try to reroute from roads beside me about 10 times and then give up when I rejoined the original road there is no route to follow. Another one miner thing I noticed since 4.7 I have the window title bar Hidden and when I go past a Proximity Alert the title bar comes back

    Regards

    John

    Dell Axim x50v / 1gb sd card / Europe Ireland Mapopolis 4.7
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 09 avr. 2006 :  23:23:24  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by AllanHvass

    Hi Ris,

    You're right that counties are indeed in the maps, if I search by "All Categories" I will find them. However, I don't find them under either the County, Named Place or Place categories, so they're categorized differently. Oh well...
    My last answer about this question was off-the-cuff, so because I was apparently wrong, I loaded it up to try my own advice...

    First I found that the program was running pathetically slow and the search window was taking forever to respond to any input. That will have to be improved. (I'm testing on the Axim for convenience in this case, because the map data is the same). So anyway, after stopping GPS, turning off the feature to Set Clock from GPS, and unloading all the maps down to ONLY the Ohio MRM, it ran smoothly (not sure which of those actions was the most significant factor) and I got back to the searching issue in question...

    In the Major Roads Maps (MRMs), I verified that the star-icon county POIs are indeed in the "County" category. The MRMs appear to list cities and townships in the Place category, and nothing in the Named Place category.

    Then I changed my map selection to ONLY county detail maps, WITHOUT the MRM. The County category is empty, understandably because these POIs only make sense in the MRMs. The Place category is empty, apparently because this category is only used for cities and townships in the MRMs. The Named Place category lists miscellaneous named places that don't belong to other categories.

    It's possible that the European maps do not offer all the same data as the US maps. I have not checked.

    quote:
    Regarding the dawn / dusk switching: The displayed time to switch changes backwards 50min. as soon as I connect the GPS, and changes forwards again 50min. as soon as I disconnect the GPS. This can be done totally consistently in an endless loop. So I think there's more to it than just a question of 1 hour off due to DST and 10 min. off due to last time since a GPS fix. Possibly it could be related to that Mapopolis does not use the last position for calculating dawn / dusk but rather switches back to the GMT longitude when there's no GPS fix?
    OK, that's really weird. I have not tested it yet on the Smartphone, but I definitely do not see that kind of behavior on the PPC and will check it out on my phone.

    It seems reasonable to think that either with or without GPS enabled, it is reverting to longitude zero, and given your location in GMT+1 (right??), it seems like a 50 minute change in dawn and dusk could be justified by that distance of imaginary travel from where you are to the Grand Meridian. This only makes sense if you are at the western end of GMT+1 or eastern end of GMT+0 where dawn and dusk occur about an hour later than in Greenwhich England.

    However, there is another oddity here in that both the dawn and dusk times moved 50 minutes earlier. If this problem occurs because both longitude AND LATITUDE are erased to zero, then it should be calculating for the equator as well, which would mean a longer day, so the dawn and dusk times should have changed by different amounts, rather than both changing the same exact 50 minutes. So that's just an odd observation I noticed in what you're reporting.

    Hmmm... well, I'll have to try it on my Smartphone and get back to you.

    quote:
    Also - the time displayed, is that supposed to be the time the switching will take place or just when dawn / dusk is calculated to occur? Are they supposed to be the same?
    Let me try to answer these questions with a more extended FAQ...

    What exactly are the 24-hour times displayed after "[X] Switch Automatically" on the Color Settings window?
    Mapopolis displays the time of dawn and dusk, as calculated for your exact lat/lon on the current date.

    So is this the time when it's going to switch the colors?
    Yes, Mapopolis will try to change the colors at exactly the time of dawn and dusk.

    Why is it different from my Almanac?
    Keep in mind that these values change with both time and location, both of which are known to Mapopolis with GPS. The Almanac gives predictions based on the same basic formulas, but must limit its results to limited global reference points such as major cities, where dawn and dusk will occur at a different time than for exactly where you are.

    OK, so my Color Settings window says it's going to change to night colors at 18:53, but it didn't change until 18:57. Is this a bug?
    The actual time when it switches between day and night colors may be up to 5 minutes late from the times reported in the Color Settings window because we only check on it once every 5 minutes (actually we slightly more than 5 minutes will pass between checks).

    So for example, if we check your time and position and find that it will still be day where you are for one more second, then we will leave it on day colors and wait for another 5 minutes before checking again and finding that it is now night time.

    OK that makes sense, but today while I was driving west I saw it happen much later. Mapopolis said dusk was 18:53, but it didn't change colors until 19:01. That's more than 5 minutes, so now is it a bug?
    No, there are other factors to consider. Since it changed at 19:01 and it checks on 5 minutes intervals, we can look at its decision making each time it checked, at 18:51, 18:56, and 19:01. The first case, at 18:51, was clearly still day time. By the time it checked at 19:01, it finally had accepted that night has fallen and changed to night colors. The additional delay comes because of the decision made at 18:56. You might think it should realize it is night time at 18:56 because that is after its reported 18:53 dusk calculation. However, there are two factors to consider:

    1) It's Spring now, so today dusk is later than it was yesterday.
    2) You were driving west, so you moved to a location where dusk occurs later.

    Because of change in both your time and location, the actual time of dawn/dusk changed for your current location/time between the location/time where/when you last viewed the Color Settings window, and the location/time where/when it became night where/when you were where/when it happened. If you were to look at the Color Settings window again immediately after it switches to night colors, then I'm sure you would find that it shows a calculated dusk time within the past 5 minutes, such as 18:57 in this example.

    So what's the bottom line, when is it supposed to switch to day colors? How do I know if it's working correctly?
    Our goal is that it changes colors at the moment when it is getting dark around you, wherever you are, on any day of the year, regardless of anything else the UI might have told you. This much seems to be working correctly for me.

    That sounds like a pretty good feature as it is, but I'm having a different problem. It said dusk was 18:53, but night time fell around me much earlier at about 18:30 and Mapopolis didn't switch until about 19:01. What happened?
    Our calculation is based on a perfectly smooth, spherical globe with an elevation at sea level. In reality, the world is not smooth and your elevation is not at sea level. It will be common for the sun to dip below the true horizon before it dips below the lower sea-level horizon. This means it will become dark sooner than predicted by Mapopolis.

    OK that makes sense, but I've been meaning to ask about that calculation, because there are a lot of definitions for dawn and dusk. Which one are you using? Exactly how do you calculate the time of dawn and dusk, and is that the time when the sun first touches the horizon, or when it completely disappears, or what?
    First we calculate the time of solar noon for the current date and longitude.

    Then we calculate the Longitudinal Horizontal Azimuth (LHA) for your current latitude. The LHA is the arc angle from the sea-level horizon to the sun, at its peak at solar noon. By geometry, if we (incorrectly) assume a spherical globe, then by the properties of symmetry, the LHA is also the same arc that the sun traverses between noon and dusk, or noon and dawn.

    Finally we calculate dawn and dusk by taking Solar Noon +/- the LHA. So this is theoretically the time when the center of the sun is aligned with the sea-level horizon.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 09 avr. 2006 :  23:26:43  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by irishjohn

    ...downloaded 4.7.01 still have the problem that when I go down that new motorway it will try to reroute from roads beside me about 10 times and then give up when I rejoined the original road there is no route to follow.

    Another one miner thing I noticed since 4.7 I have the window title bar Hidden and when I go past a Proximity Alert the title bar comes back

    Noted both issues, thanks, we'll work on them.
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  02:22:24  Show Profile
    Hi Ris,

    The following is the latest crash I had with the new beta, on my very first test run.

    A few things:

    It would be nice to have the crash/attempted error recovery play some sort of really significant sound(s), to get your attention and warn you that you are not actively routing anymore and attention is needed immediately. Maybe a Homer Simpson type of "DOH"?

    When doing an attempted error recovery and its sucessful, I've noticed that it goes into a north up mode with the "tap here ..." message although I haven't invoked the orientation polygram. Is it possible that the tapping on the error screen "bleeds through" to the main screen.

    And finally, it seems to take a while before your position on the screen starts updating once a sucessful error recovery has taken place.

    Hope this is helpful, regards, Joshua



    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-09, 19:23:27
    WM message 32770
    WM Parms 0, 0
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 33197652
    XR Parms 0, 573104128
    GetLastError: 120
    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-09, 19:23:41
    WM message 513
    WM Parms 1, 16908682
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 33194784
    XR Parms 0, 573104384
    GetLastError: 120

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    Larrysabo

    Canada
    138 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  03:57:14  Show Profile
    quote:
    It will be common for the sun to dip below the true horizon before it dips below the lower sea-level horizon.
    Good write-up, but I think you meant the opposite. If I'm at sea level at sunset and shoot up in a rocket, the sun will not have yet set.

    Cheers, and keep up the good work. Larry

    Axim X51V 624MHz WM5 A06, Haicom 303III SiRF III, Mapopolois 4.71.01 Beta, Gomadic mount
    Go to Top of Page

    lbendlin

    USA
    482 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  05:05:35  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris If this problem occurs because both longitude AND LATITUDE are erased to zero, then it should be calculating for the equator as well, which would mean a longer day


    Not true now that we have passed the Spring Equinox.

    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  05:42:22  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Larrysabo

    quote:
    It will be common for the sun to dip below the true horizon before it dips below the lower sea-level horizon.
    Good write-up, but I think you meant the opposite. If I'm at sea level at sunset and shoot up in a rocket, the sun will not have yet set.

    If you were actually at sea, then that would be true: if you went up in a rocket or a hot air balloon, the sun would not disappear as soon behind the sea-level horizon due to your elevation, because the sea-level horizon IS the visual horizon.

    However, inland, in most places, the visual horizon is elevated above sea-level more than you are, because of the presence of hills, trees, and buildings, which means the sun will disappear behind the visual horizon before it actually sinks to the lower sea-level horizon. This is most notable in a deep valley, but the same effect applies to a smaller degree on flat ground covered with trees, provided the trees are taller than you are...

    EDIT: maybe in my original post I should have said VISUAL horizon instead of TRUE horizon to make it more clear what I was trying to explain. I hope the distinction is understandable.

    Edited by - Ris on 10 avr. 2006 05:57:25
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  05:56:07  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by lbendlin

    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris If this problem occurs because both longitude AND LATITUDE are erased to zero, then it should be calculating for the equator as well, which would mean a longer day
    Not true now that we have passed the Spring Equinox.
    OK, good point, thanks for correcting me. The day would indeed be longer on the equator in this case.

    However, I think my original point still stands that the day would be a different length at the equator, and thus if erased or zeroed-out data is to blame for the oddities in dawn and dusk time calculations, then it must be happening to the Longitude without also happening to the Latitude.

    Since it seems unlikely that we would erase the longitude without also erasing the latitude, or get a correct non-zero value for one but not the other for any other reason, I doubt the erasing of data is really having an impact on the time of dawn and dusk as it relates to the 50-minute offset I was discussing.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  06:09:42  Show Profile
    Hi Joshua, thanks for the bug report. It looks like the same fatal "GPS Update" crash we've had from several users. I think a lot of the behavior after the error recovery was the result of incomplete error recovery. It's not doing a complete program restart when you attempt error recovery, it only resets a few key variables, so there are many elements of the program state which may remain corrupted after such an error, and may continue to cause further crashes or other odd behavior in the program. But those details are useful to know, because they provide clues about exactly what has gone wrong and why, so I thank you for providing the details, even though I couldn't say yet exactly what those clues mean at this time.
    Go to Top of Page

    AllanHvass

    Denmark
    396 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  10:39:37  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris

    quote:
    Originally posted by AllanHvass

    Hi Ris,

    You're right that counties are indeed in the maps, if I search by "All Categories" I will find them. However, I don't find them under either the County, Named Place or Place categories, so they're categorized differently. Oh well...
    My last answer about this question was off-the-cuff, so because I was apparently wrong, I loaded it up to try my own advice...

    First I found that the program was running pathetically slow and the search window was taking forever to respond to any input. That will have to be improved. (I'm testing on the Axim for convenience in this case, because the map data is the same). So anyway, after stopping GPS, turning off the feature to Set Clock from GPS, and unloading all the maps down to ONLY the Ohio MRM, it ran smoothly (not sure which of those actions was the most significant factor) and I got back to the searching issue in question...

    In the Major Roads Maps (MRMs), I verified that the star-icon county POIs are indeed in the "County" category. The MRMs appear to list cities and townships in the Place category, and nothing in the Named Place category.

    Then I changed my map selection to ONLY county detail maps, WITHOUT the MRM. The County category is empty, understandably because these POIs only make sense in the MRMs. The Place category is empty, apparently because this category is only used for cities and townships in the MRMs. The Named Place category lists miscellaneous named places that don't belong to other categories.

    It's possible that the European maps do not offer all the same data as the US maps. I have not checked.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!


    Hi Ris,

    I doublechecked with the European maps. Counties are NOT listed in the County category in the European MRMs. As a matter of fact, they're not listed in ANY category in the European MRMs, you can ONLy find them if you search in the "Any Category", but not in any of the individual categories - I tried them all (and yes, that took a little while to test). So they must be mapped to a category number, that doesn't have a descriptor and search profile.

    Otherwise, you're observation about Named Place and Place across maps and MRMs are the same for European maps. And I also noticed that "Hamlet" (small town?) category don't have any content either.

    Any you're absolutely right - Category search is dog slow right now also on the Smartphone platform. Not quite sure why.

    Best regards
    Allan Hvass

    Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit
    Go to Top of Page

    Larrysabo

    Canada
    138 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  14:34:51  Show Profile
    quote:
    Ris wrote...which means the sun will disappear behind the visual horizon before it actually sinks to the lower sea-level horizon.
    Ah, that clarifies it... "visual" instead of "true." Thanks.

    Axim X51V 624MHz WM5 A06, Haicom 303III SiRF III, Mapopolois 4.71.01 Beta, Gomadic mount

    Edited by - Larrysabo on 10 avr. 2006 14:35:11
    Go to Top of Page

    mswlogo

    USA
    109 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  18:37:43  Show Profile
    Ris,

    Any thoughts on adding WAAS status and ability to toggle it in Mapopolis?

    There is a seperate tool for it but seems it would make sense to build it in.

    http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/download.asp?dl=17 (GPSTweak).
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  21:30:53  Show Profile
    Hi Allan,
    thanks for the testing, I'll talk to our map data people about it.

    Hi Larry,
    you raised a good point too, and I'm glad we understand each other.

    Hi mswlogo,
    WAAS status is reported by Mapopolis already. If you are getting the benefit of WAAS, or EGNOS, or any other Differential GPS system, then Mapopolis will say you have an "Enhanced" fix. If it's just a 2D or 3D fix, but not "Enhanced", then WAAS is not functioning.

    We will consider a toggle checkbox for WAAS on/off.
    Go to Top of Page

    lbendlin

    USA
    482 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  22:05:04  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
    Ris,

    WAAS is another of these gimmicks that will cost you lots of development time without delivering benefits.

    WAAS is useless for road navigation, and is known to even worsen position accuracy in SiRF III chipsets.

    I think the current functionality (display of enhanced 3D fix status) is entirely sufficient.

    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
    Go to Top of Page

    paulkbiba

    USA
    5064 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  23:01:55  Show Profile
    Regarding WAAS, here is a copy of a posting from one of our members from SiRF Customer Support:

    Hope I can shed some light here for people. When SiRFstarIII receivers say they are applying SBAS corrections (when the navigation mode reports DGPS used, either in binary message 2 or NMEA GGA message) it is using the corrections. However, unlike SiRFstarII receivers, it does not output the actual corrections.

    The impact of using the corrections is rather small. If you could connect your receiver to an antenna located on top of one of the tallest buildings around (to reduce multipath), and if this was in a location with minimal jamming signals, and if you collected data over a 24-hour period (to average out the variations due to the changing satellite constellation), you would normally see a wander pattern with an average, or 50% probability) of below 2.5 to 3 m. Repeat that test and you would probably see 50% probability drop to maybe 1 or 1.5 m, for a 1 to 2 m improvement. The improvement is due to better satellite clock corrections, and ionospheric correction improvement. Not a lot to write home about, but that isn't SBAS system's primary goal -- integrity monitoring is where SBAS systems shine. An aircraft on final approach will be warned much sooner if one of the satellites he is using should go bad, so that that satellite can be dropped from the solution before the error causes a position fix that would make the pilot correct for an non-existent altitude change.

    Now, take your same receiver, and instead of an ideal antenna location, put it in a car driving around among all sorts of reflectors and jammers, or carry it on your person in the same world, and that average error blossoms out to 10 or 20 m due to local issues in your environment. Turn on SBAS and you still get 1.5 to 2 m improvement, and among the noise of real-life situations, you probably won't see it. Remember, any type of DGPS can only correct for errors that are common between the reference receiver and the receiver using the corrections. It cannot correct for factors unique to the remote receiver.

    Carl - SiRF Customer Support


    Moderator
    Don't forget the GPSPassion Club!
    Go to Top of Page

    welmoed

    USA
    32 Posts

    Posted - 10 avr. 2006 :  23:23:29  Show Profile
    Tried the new release today... no good. I got an error message I never saw before: rather than the red bar at the bottom of the map saying "running -- no fix" it said "not responding". And the GPS lock kept going up and down (as it has done with previous versions too, when it's first turned on, so that's nothing new) it would give a "double beep" and show the "not responding" message. No idea why; it was plugged in properly.

    Also, I tried navigating a route and wanted to change it to route through two specific roads. It rerouted for the first one just fine, but when I tried to reroute through the second one, the program froze and I had to soft-reset.

    Rolling back to RC4.

    --Welmoed


    iPaq 2215, Pharos GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 11 avr. 2006 :  04:54:25  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by lbendlin
    WAAS is another of these gimmicks that will cost you lots of development time without delivering benefits.
    That was essentially my thinking as well, though I am still undecided. Actually, we implemented this feature at one time as a checkbox labeled "[X] Enable WAAS" and it's sort of a funny story...

    A long time ago, we did a project for a corporate client who packaged a modified version of Mapopolis with some add-on software pre-installed on a Pocket PC, with maps, in the same box with a GPS receiver ... We created several features for that client, including the Traffic Detour feature, and a few other changes we were able to roll into our standard software at the same time. However, that client also provided us with some of the implementation of several additional features, in exchange for which, Mapopolis agreed not to use those features in our standard software for at least one year. There were 4 of these features:

    1. automatic day/night color switching
    2. set clock from GPS data
    3. blink LED
    4. toggle WAAS on/off in the GPS receiver

    You may recognize the first three as new features added in Mapopolis v4.64, and the fourth is mswlogo's suggestion. I find it ironic that these were supposed to be easily-added, ready-to-go features, which had already been thoroughly tested and released, and should be too insignificant to the primary function of the software for anyone to notice a bug or complain even if they did ... yet these have been the three most troublesome features we have dealt with since their introduction in 4.64!

    Like items 1-3, by all sense of logical reasoning, item 4, a WAAS feature, should be something we could add as easily as turning on a light switch, because the feature was already created, tested, debugged, and released ... However, in this case, the main problem I foresee is compatibility. I think that most GPS receivers will probably not answer to the same commands, each requiring us to speak their own proprietary language in order to say "turn on WAAS", so implementing this feature for a general audience could easily snowball into creating a universal GPS controller: much more work than flipping a switch. However, I could be wrong about that, so we might try our existing old feature in an upcoming beta, just to try it. If it works, then it will be a nice little bonus feature. But if it has problems, then it will most likely be removed instead of debugged.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 11 avr. 2006 :  04:59:29  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by welmoed

    Tried the new release today... no good. I got an error message I never saw before: rather than the red bar at the bottom of the map saying "running -- no fix" it said "not responding". And the GPS lock kept going up and down (as it has done with previous versions too, when it's first turned on, so that's nothing new) it would give a "double beep" and show the "not responding" message. No idea why; it was plugged in properly.
    Previous versions may have shown "Running No/Fix" in the nav pane when it should have said "Not Responding" Recent changes fixed that bug so that the nav pane more accurately reflects the GPS status - so though it's possible there was a bug, it seems more likely there was a real communication error. Maybe you needed to reseat your CF card?

    quote:
    Also, I tried navigating a route and wanted to change it to route through two specific roads. It rerouted for the first one just fine, but when I tried to reroute through the second one, the program froze and I had to soft-reset.
    Sounds like a probable bug, though I can't think of any recent changes to the program which might be related, so it's very unexpected. We will look into it, thanks.
    Go to Top of Page

    welmoed

    USA
    32 Posts

    Posted - 11 avr. 2006 :  14:32:05  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris
    Previous versions may have shown "Running No/Fix" in the nav pane when it should have said "Not Responding" Recent changes fixed that bug so that the nav pane more accurately reflects the GPS status - so though it's possible there was a bug, it seems more likely there was a real communication error. Maybe you needed to reseat your CF card?



    I don't use a CF GPS; mine connects via the serial port on the underside. That was my first thought too, but I rechecked all my connections and it still came back with the "not responding".

    --Welmoed

    iPaq 2215, Pharos GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    mswlogo

    USA
    109 Posts

    Posted - 11 avr. 2006 :  20:59:07  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris

    quote:
    Originally posted by lbendlin
    WAAS is another of these gimmicks that will cost you lots of development time without delivering benefits.
    That was essentially my thinking as well, though I am still undecided. Actually, we implemented this feature at one time as a checkbox labeled "[X] Enable WAAS" and it's sort of a funny story...

    A long time ago, we did a project for a corporate client who packaged a modified version of Mapopolis with some add-on software pre-installed on a Pocket PC, with maps, in the same box with a GPS receiver ... We created several features for that client, including the Traffic Detour feature, and a few other changes we were able to roll into our standard software at the same time. However, that client also provided us with some of the implementation of several additional features, in exchange for which, Mapopolis agreed not to use those features in our standard software for at least one year. There were 4 of these features:

    1. automatic day/night color switching
    2. set clock from GPS data
    3. blink LED
    4. toggle WAAS on/off in the GPS receiver

    You may recognize the first three as new features added in Mapopolis v4.64, and the fourth is mswlogo's suggestion. I find it ironic that these were supposed to be easily-added, ready-to-go features, which had already been thoroughly tested and released, and should be too insignificant to the primary function of the software for anyone to notice a bug or complain even if they did ... yet these have been the three most troublesome features we have dealt with since their introduction in 4.64!

    Like items 1-3, by all sense of logical reasoning, item 4, a WAAS feature, should be something we could add as easily as turning on a light switch, because the feature was already created, tested, debugged, and released ... However, in this case, the main problem I foresee is compatibility. I think that most GPS receivers will probably not answer to the same commands, each requiring us to speak their own proprietary language in order to say "turn on WAAS", so implementing this feature for a general audience could easily snowball into creating a universal GPS controller: much more work than flipping a switch. However, I could be wrong about that, so we might try our existing old feature in an upcoming beta, just to try it. If it works, then it will be a nice little bonus feature. But if it has problems, then it will most likely be removed instead of debugged.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!



    Thank RIS, it's not a huge deal. Other things surely have higher priority. I didn't realize WAAS was so debated. The reason I ask is, I used to have Clip-On Fortuna Sirf II with XT and it used to lock a little slow in XT mode, but was consistent in how long it took and stayed locked in tough conditions. But stupid me had to get the latest toy Sirf-III w/WAAS and I got the Fortuna Slim Sirf-III. It locks very fast sometimes and other times can take 10 minutes. So I wanted to see if shutting WAAS off or on would help make it more lock consistently.

    Also that tool GPSTweak I mentions a few back could not find the bluetooth COM port. But I found a tool called GPS Viewer from Holux that allows me to fiddle, but I'm not sure 100% it's actually changing the setting and does not appear to read it's status (it sends the command blind and I don't know if it's persisted).

    And sorry of I took your thread off topic.

    PPC-6700 WM5, Fortuna Slim GPS Sirf III Bluetooth.

    Edited by - mswlogo on 11 avr. 2006 21:02:47
    Go to Top of Page

    mswlogo

    USA
    109 Posts

    Posted - 11 avr. 2006 :  21:05:11  Show Profile
    Ris,

    Why is setting clock from GPS a good thing? If my device is also a phone that gets its time from Cellular is this something that should be definitely off?

    Edited by - mswlogo on 11 avr. 2006 21:05:47
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 11 avr. 2006 :  22:59:04  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by mswlogo

    Ris,

    Why is setting clock from GPS a good thing? If my device is also a phone that gets its time from Cellular is this something that should be definitely off?

    Hmmm, a very good point indeed. Most Smartphones, if not all of them, synchronize their clocks to the cell network, so yes there's really no point in setting the clock from GPS on a Smartphone and you should leave that feature turned off.

    However... now I could be wrong about this... but it's my understanding that most cell phones only synchronize the time once per day, while Mapopolis synchronizes the time once every 30 seconds. It's the same principle, but with different time intervals and data sources. Given that the cell network is only going to synchronize the time once per 24-hours, I do not foresee that causing a major conflict with Mapopolis. They would come into conflict a maximum of once per 24-hour period, only for a moment, and the time difference between the cell network and the GPS during this conflict should be insignificant because they are both highly accurate.

    So theoretically speaking, it should not cause a problematic conflict if you turn on the Set Clock to GPS feature in Mapopolis, but it would not be very useful since you already have a reliable time synch method built into your Smartphone.

    Switching gears a little bit, we still seem to have some problems with this feature, outside of any potential conflicts with other time sync methods. These include:

    1) In 4.70 RC4/Final, calendar notification events for future events would be shown, and/or the clock would be set incorrectly to a future date and time, such as many years in the future.

    We determined this problem was caused by incorrect interpretation of the GPS data, and added logic to ignore time values which appear invalid. So this problem should not occur in 4.71.01. Please let us know if you encounter this problem in 4.71.01+

    2) In 4.70 RC4/Final, Turning on this feature would cause lockups on some devices.

    The data validation we added to fix problem 1 above should also have fixed this problem. This feature should be safe to use in the latest 4.71.01.

    3) In 4.71.01, Setting clock from GPS data causes high CPU load.

    It's possible we were too thorough in our data validation solution for the problems above, and I see how that could account for a higher CPU load. We're doing a significant amount of analysis on the GPS-reported time before we apply it to the real clock, and this might be eating the CPU. I see how we can safely scale this back for the next beta, which may create some improvement.

    However, the algorithm in this case is linear, Order-N, on a relatively small data set, so it also seems unlikely to be the cause of a VERY high CPU load, which leads me to ponder other theories and other possible solutions... but I will hold off on posting about that kind of speculation until we hear more about the behavior of this feature in the latest version.

    For anyone who was having lockup or calendar notification problems in 4.70 RC4, do you still encounter those problems in 4.71.01 WITH Set Clock from GPS turned ON, or am I correct in saying those problems are both fixed?

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    Dr_StrangeTrick

    United Kingdom
    379 Posts

    Posted - 12 avr. 2006 :  06:56:46  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris

    Hmmm, a very good point indeed. Most Smartphones, if not all of them, synchronise their clocks to the cell network


    Hi Ris none of my phones (SmartPhone or plain old Nokia) have ever synchronised to the cell network ever

    The same applies to my wife, friends and colleagues etc and they all have a variety of phones on different networks and none of them set their time to their network.


    Orange C550, TomTom BT GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    AllanHvass

    Denmark
    396 Posts

    Posted - 12 avr. 2006 :  07:59:20  Show Profile
    I also don't believe it to be a phone feature to sync time from the mobile network.

    However, if you have a Smartphone that syncs data with a corporate Exchange Server over GPRS (not GPS), then the phone will sync it's time with the server. This is how my phone stay absolutely on time.


    Best regards
    Allan Hvass

    Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit
    Go to Top of Page

    rfsmithsr

    USA
    39 Posts

    Posted - 12 avr. 2006 :  08:03:04  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by AllanHvass

    I also don't believe it to be a phone feature to sync time from the mobile network.

    However, if you have a Smartphone that syncs data with a corporate Exchange Server over GPRS (not GPS), then the phone will sync it's time with the server. This is how my phone stay absolutely on time.


    Best regards
    Allan Hvass

    Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit



    My Motorola V600 on T-Mobile has a phone option to allow sync to the incoming Caller ID which includes the date/time. This is a phone and network dependent function.



    Ron Smith

    4.71.01 beta, North America NE Maps, hp iPAQ 5555, WM2003, 1 GB SD Storage, BlueLogger GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    RonW

    70 Posts

    Posted - 12 avr. 2006 :  14:34:07  Show Profile
    My sprint phone sync's with network time, there is no time settings menu on my phone, when DST rolled around I did nothing to my phone to set the new time.
    Go to Top of Page

    Lizard_weasel

    USA
    892 Posts

    Posted - 12 avr. 2006 :  18:33:28  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Dr_StrangeTrick

    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris

    Hmmm, a very good point indeed. Most Smartphones, if not all of them, synchronise their clocks to the cell network


    Hi Ris none of my phones (SmartPhone or plain old Nokia) have ever synchronised to the cell network ever

    The same applies to my wife, friends and colleagues etc and they all have a variety of phones on different networks and none of them set their time to their network.


    Orange C550, TomTom BT GPS



    I use cingular and sprint, a total of 5 phones, and all have the option to synch time with the network.

    Axim x50v, A05 ROM/Globalsat BT-338 Bluetooth GPS/2gb PNY SD card/2gb Kingston CF card/Mapopolis 4.7RC4 with NE maps.
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 12 avr. 2006 :  18:49:00  Show Profile
    The Tmobile cell phones that I have used have a user option to automatically adjust the time. This is handy as I travel between time zones often and it automatically adjusts when I get off the plane.

    Also, had an issue with the latest beta where a street prefixed with the letter "W" was pronounced as "W" instead of "West". Otherwise, I seems to be working well, no gps fault crashes, and I am in a strange city!

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    mswlogo

    USA
    109 Posts

    Posted - 12 avr. 2006 :  19:29:49  Show Profile
    Unexpected routing issue.

    I just got my new PPC-6700 and have been waiting for a new mini sd so, I have loaded minimal maps onto the phone itself.
    I have always been told, just load the major road maps and the starting point map and the destination map.

    So I'm going along our 120 mile trip and it passes the the exit with no notice, I also noticed the estimate seemed about 15 minutes high.

    Well it routed me 2 exits up and then back down again because of the maps it had loaded added about 15 minutes to 2 hr drive (that's a lot).

    So since you can't load all maps and you can't load just the source and destination map what are you supposed to do?

    A stop gap until a more automated map loading comes around (I know you have talked about it before).
    But to be able to add another menu option that when you can click on a County Icon to not allow just that map be loaded but also add another choice to load current map and all adjacent maps.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    PPC-6700 WM5, Fortuna Slim GPS Sirf III Bluetooth.

    Edited by - mswlogo on 12 avr. 2006 19:32:00
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 12 avr. 2006 :  21:05:54  Show Profile
    Hi everyone, about the time sync issues, the differences between everyone's system configurations shows why we made it an option. Though I am surprised to find that not that many phones sync their time from the cell network - I thought they pretty much all did. I always had the impression that my Motorola MPx200 and Orange SPVe200 phones both do this, on the AT&T/Cingular network... but I have never done any diagnostics or explicit tests to see if the time ever changes, or if I just have an accurate clock that doesn't need adjustment... although I have never had to set the time on any of my phones when I first put the battery in, so it MUST get the time from the network, at least after a cold boot, if not on regular intervals afterward such as once per day...

    Anyway, moving on...
    quote:
    had an issue with the latest beta where a street prefixed with the letter "W" was pronounced as "W" instead of "West".
    In general, it should recognize this W as West, so I think you must have found an unusual case. Any chance you could remember the exact name of the road? My hazy recollection is that a road name composed only of "minor words" will have some problems with the TTS handling of abbreviations, for example "W North St." or "N Boulevard Rd."

    Also, I am aware of the opposite problem where the letters N,E,S,W are expanded as full words when they are intended as the letter, in the name of a highway exit. For example "Exit 6E" may indicate the 5th exit after mile marker 6, as opposed to "exit 6-east" which is what Mapopolis will say. In the case of exit 6N, that's probably exit 6-North, as opposed to the 14th exit after mile marker 6, so the bug almost seems appropriate in highway exit names like this - it's just the E case that worries me since it could result in confusion directions where you are supposed to take exit 6E and head West, but the software says to take exit 6-East...

    But anyway, PRECEDING a road name, obviously it should always be the whole word WEST instead of W, so we'll keep an eye out for any holes in the logic which are missing out on that concept, and if you can think of any more details or clues, they'd be appreciated...

    Oh, it also occurs to me that text to speech has a special case of operation to consider: the Route Step Panel. Specifically that one panel, not the Navigation, Pilot Data, or other panels, PLUS the option to [X] Recite Route Step Text... That option uses a slightly different text parsing method to prepare the text for speech, which includes the way it handles abbreviations like W. One time, just recently and for the first time, I heard the Route Step Panel tell me the letters "N-E" instead of "northeast". Unfortunately, I couldn't find a way to reproduce the error, nor any reason for it in the code, so it was strange and it remains a problem... possibly the problem you encountered? Were you looking at the Route Step Panel when you heard it say the W instead of West?

    quote:
    Unexpected routing issue.
    ...
    If I understand your problem... you were missing a county detail map near your destination, in a place where you could have saved 15 minutes by driving a diagnonal route across the missing county, but the roads were unknown because the map was missing, so it had to route you around the missing county, all the way into the destination county in order to find connecting roads...

    For this reason, I always load more than just the start and destination counties, adding the few counties around the edges. I do it manually, visually looking at which counties I might pass through... I don't know why it never occured to me to create a one-button feature to load the selected county PLUS those immediately adjacent to it. That's a good idea which is now on the list, thanks!

    Although... the long-awaited "populate route" feature is likely to be implemented before an "open adjacent maps" feature at this point, and will make an "open adjacent maps" feature somewhat unnecessary because "Populate route" will be a command that automatically opens any available detail maps along your route, and reoptimizes the route to use the new data as applicable. (which would have fixed your problem) One of the later 4.6x betas changed the backend to prepare for "populate route" and the new backend seems to be running fine at this point, so we're getting close to approaching this. Don't get your hopes too high though, we still have a long list of unrelated bugs and important things we need to change or fix, so this is definitely NOT something for the next beta, but hopefully soon.
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 12 avr. 2006 :  23:28:07  Show Profile
    Just a thought (from experience) regarding the misrouting past your exit, going to the edge of a county and then coming right back - its happened to me when I mixed different versions of maps. Bought the latest and got rid of the old and its working fine now. Just an idea.

    Also, Ris, I will try to reproduce the "W" issue on my way back to a hotel in downtown Orlando tonight. It was noted during the active guidence TTS and not the reciting of directions (which I don't have active right now).

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10

    Edited by - joshua362 on 12 avr. 2006 23:33:29
    Go to Top of Page

    mswlogo

    USA
    109 Posts

    Posted - 13 avr. 2006 :  14:23:48  Show Profile
    Thx for the tip, I only had 3 maps on the whole device because I didn't have my SD card yet. 2 of those maps were source and destination. And they were new maps. Ris, summarized it correctly.

    I still question if the "populate route" algorithm Ris described which is a form of what lamar said to do manually for long trips and basically what I was doing. If it loads counties along the "draft route" and reoptimized it may still be missing a county map with the "shortcut". It's less likely to happen but I think it can. Maybe the new algorthm might want to have an option to automatically load adjacent maps to source and destination and it will probably get the optimum route on the first try. It could probably unload unessessary adjacent maps that don't intersect the route after to keep map count down before it loads maps along the route.


    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    PPC-6700 WM5, Fortuna Slim GPS Sirf III Bluetooth.
    Go to Top of Page

    deichenlaub

    USA
    127 Posts

    Posted - 13 avr. 2006 :  23:48:04  Show Profile
    I loaded the most recent Beta on my PDA and took it for a "little" test drive - 2 days in New Mexico, followed by 2 days in Ohio.

    Mapapolis stopped routing twice in New Mexico. Once I was walking, with the PDA in my shirt pocket. The other time I was close to the airport. Both times, it stopped routing without warning (no sounds, no interrupted instructions, etc.)

    Everything was fine in Ohio. The strange thing was, reception conditions in NM were absolutely ideal. While I was in Ohio, I drove through a strong thunderstorm. Between the moisture, clouds, and the fact that the GSP receiver was on the seat beside me (not near the window), the receiver lost the synch, and took a long time to re-establish the synch. I mention this because of RIS' theory that a "0" data item was causing the routing to stop. If ever the receiver sent out funky data, I would think it would be during a thunderstorm with the lost signal and all the electrical activity.

    The other thing I noticed is that Mapapolis seems to be sensitive to the sequence in which I start the program - enter the route - plug in the GPS card. My preference was to set the route, then plug in the card. I use this sequence because I sometimes have to "reverse" the route, which is not possible after the GPS is running. When I used this sequence, the GPS refused to start. I had to remove the receiver and stop the program (closing the task with VBAR) before I could get the GPS to start. Then it was stop the GPS, recall the rout from the file, reverse the route, and start the GPS. It was not tne fastest time on the road.

    HP iPAQ 2490 / WM5 / Mapopolis / GlobalSAT BC-337 (Holux CF GPS)
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 14 avr. 2006 :  15:40:52  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris
    Anyway, moving on...
    quote:
    had an issue with the latest beta where a street prefixed with the letter "W" was pronounced as "W" instead of "West".
    In general, it should recognize this W as West, so I think you must have found an unusual case. Any chance you could remember the exact name of the road? My hazy recollection is that a road name composed only of "minor words" will have some problems with the TTS handling of abbreviations, for example "W North St." or "N Boulevard Rd."

    But anyway, PRECEDING a road name, obviously it should always be the whole word WEST instead of W, so we'll keep an eye out for any holes in the logic which are missing out on that concept, and if you can think of any more details or clues, they'd be appreciated...

    Oh, it also occurs to me that text to speech has a special case of operation to consider: the Route Step Panel. Specifically that one panel, not the Navigation, Pilot Data, or other panels, PLUS the option to [X] Recite Route Step Text... That option uses a slightly different text parsing method to prepare the text for speech, which includes the way it handles abbreviations like W. One time, just recently and for the first time, I heard the Route Step Panel tell me the letters "N-E" instead of "northeast". Unfortunately, I couldn't find a way to reproduce the error, nor any reason for it in the code, so it was strange and it remains a problem... possibly the problem you encountered? Were you looking at the Route Step Panel when you heard it say the W instead of West?



    Hi Ris, I was able to track this down. Its in downtown Orlando, Orange county, FL and as you suspected, it was on a road call "South Street". I noticed that as I traveled along it, the road named changed from "East South Street", which TTS pronounced properly, to "West South Street", of which TTS used the W only. If you need more details, let me know. Also, here is the only crash I've had on the trip. Regards, Joshua

    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-13, 08:59:02
    WM message 32770
    WM Parms 0, 0
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 33196980
    XR Parms 0, 573104128
    GetLastError: 120

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 15 avr. 2006 :  00:39:11  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by deichenlaub

    Mapapolis stopped routing twice in New Mexico. Once I was walking, with the PDA in my shirt pocket. The other time I was close to the airport. Both times, it stopped routing without warning (no sounds, no interrupted instructions, etc.)
    When you say it stopped routing... did it completely delete the route? This is definitely caused by a GPS cycle in which your current position is suddenly so far from your route that a reroute fails, whether because of "0" data or some other reason. We must have some safeguards malfunctioning or not being used that are meant to prevent random one-second trips to places hundreds of miles away, which is clearly impossible in reality though the GPS can say anything it wants to...

    quote:
    Everything was fine in Ohio.

    Ohio-based company... go figure...

    quote:
    The strange thing was, reception conditions in NM were absolutely ideal. While I was in Ohio, I drove through a strong thunderstorm. Between the moisture, clouds, and the fact that the GSP receiver was on the seat beside me (not near the window), the receiver lost the synch, and took a long time to re-establish the synch. I mention this because of RIS' theory that a "0" data item was causing the routing to stop...
    4.71.01 should already be ignoring any "0" data but there may be a problem in the way it's doing that. The arrangement of the satellites is more significant than the weather when it comes to making your GPS receiver do funny things, so really, you are almost as likely to experience a problem under the clear desert sky of New Mexico as under a typical Ohio thunderstorm.

    quote:
    The other thing I noticed is that Mapapolis seems to be sensitive to the sequence in which I start the program - enter the route - plug in the GPS card. ... When I used this sequence, the GPS refused to start.
    So it remained on Not Responding?
    quote:
    I had to remove the receiver and stop the program (closing the task with VBAR) before I could get the GPS to start.
    Before you exited and restarted Mapopolis, did you try anything else to get it working? In particular, my suggestion if this happens again would be to stop GPS in Mapopolis and wait for it to say "Not Running", then remove and reseat the CF card, then start GPS in Mapopolis. That is usually enough with any CF card GPS. What you did is a more drastic form of the same basic thing, but it also resets any additional program state data which may have been messed up and causing a bug before you exited/restarted the program.

    I don't see any obvious reasons why creating the route first would make any difference, and it should be fine. In fact, I often create a route before I start GPS and I never have a problem with a Holux GM-270 CF GPS on a Dell Axim x50v/WM5. So it's unexpected and I'll have to think about it some more.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    deichenlaub

    USA
    127 Posts

    Posted - 15 avr. 2006 :  01:21:49  Show Profile
    Ris,

    Thanks for your reply.

    quote:
    When you say it stopped routing... did it completely delete the route?


    That's exactly it. It wasn't a big deal, because I have taken to saving routs in a file every time. It's just a few clicks to restore the route. One of the really good things about Mapapolis is that when you do this, Mapapolis doesn 't complain that you aren't at the starting point, but just picks everything up right away.


    quote:
    quote:The other thing I noticed is that Mapapolis seems to be sensitive to the sequence in which I start the program - enter the route - plug in the GPS card. ... When I used this sequence, the GPS refused to start.

    So it remained on Not Responding?


    I wish I could say I had been methodical about this. But in fact I was trying to get into the rental car and get to my destination. What I remember is that Mapapolis said the GPS was not responding. THe GPS light was not on. I had the impression that Mapapolis had decided it couldn't start the GPS. I couldn't find a way to make it go back and try to start from the beginning (open the port, see if the GPS is there, etc.) I don't remember for sure, but it is pretty likely I had set up the PDA well ahead of time, then left Mapapolis active (with the route) and turned the PDA power off. When I got to the car, I most likely either turned the PDA power on and inserted the GPS; or else inserted the GPS which turns power on for me. This could be a dead state in the GPS driver.

    quote:
    Before you exited and restarted Mapopolis, did you try anything else to get it working? In particular, my suggestion if this happens again would be to stop GPS in Mapopolis and wait for it to say "Not Running", then remove and reseat the CF card, then start GPS in Mapopolis.


    You are quite correct. This is not necessarily a Mapapolis problem but could be a stuck GPS receiver. I assumed the light on the side of the GPS simply meant that power was applied to the CF port, but it might be more complicated than that. I didn't consider the GPS receiver being the problem because Mapapolis never said it was scanning the serial port, or indicat in any way it was looking for the receiver.

    I wouldn't worry about starting the GPS receiver too much. In the end, it's not a big deal. The other point is that using the WM5 GPS driver has a high probability of changing this behavior.

    Regards,

    Dennis

    HP iPAQ 2490 / WM5 / Mapopolis / GlobalSAT BC-337 (Holux CF GPS)
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 15 avr. 2006 :  02:00:20  Show Profile
    Hi deichenlaub, thanks for the nice reply. We have discussed a similar issue over at the Questions forum, which may interest you...

    "Mapopolis loses COM4 on WM5?"
    http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=49593

    Edited by - Ris on 15 avr. 2006 02:01:33
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 20 avr. 2006 :  03:04:16  Show Profile
    Hey, where did everyone go! Here is some error log entries from tonight while simply routing home on a known route.

    Are there any guidelines as to what the "GetLastError" codes mean? I wonder if my problems are GPS or memory error related (or both). Is it a good idea to do a soft reset before using Mapopolis, I think that would help memory errors, assuming I am getting them.

    Regards, Joshua

    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:40:05
    WM message 32771
    WM Parms 0, 0
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 33195716
    XR Parms 0, 573046784
    GetLastError: 6
    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:46:17
    WM message 512
    WM Parms 1, 21758169
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 33194840
    XR Parms 0, 338165760
    GetLastError: 0
    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:46:53
    WM message 512
    WM Parms 0, 22937889
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 33194840
    XR Parms 0, 338231296
    GetLastError: 120
    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:47:05
    WM message 512
    WM Parms 0, 23396595
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 33197052
    XR Parms 0, 338231296
    GetLastError: 120
    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:47:27
    WM message 513
    WM Parms 1, 21430607
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 33197052
    XR Parms 0, 338231296
    GetLastError: 120
    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:47:30
    WM message 513
    WM Parms 1, 22216932
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 33196380
    XR Parms 0, 338231296
    GetLastError: 120

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    irishjohn

    Ireland
    141 Posts

    Posted - 20 avr. 2006 :  21:53:14  Show Profile
    They are all working very hard at 4.71.02 it will be great wont it Riss and Lamar

    Dell Axim x50v / 1gb sd card / Europe Ireland Mapopolis 4.7
    Go to Top of Page

    RixPDA

    USA
    44 Posts

    Posted - 20 avr. 2006 :  23:27:24  Show Profile
    I noticed that after choosing tools/navigation/find route, when I select choose destination and a drop down menu appears. The top half is select, etc and the bottom half is a list of recent selections or favorites, not sure. Anyway if I select an item from the bottom half that is a landmark that I gave a location name, it doesn't transfer to the destination field. In other words I can't select it from the favorites list. However, if I select a favorite that I didn't create myself as a named landmark it is transferred to the destination field. It doesn't seem to have a problem with points of interest that are defined by the map data.

    If I go directly to the landmark on the map and select route to then it places the name I gave it along with the address in the destination field.

    Rick
    Dell X50v, ROM A03, 1GB CF&SD, WM2003SE, Std Video, Mapopolis v4.7RC4, NE Maps, Dell BT309 GPS

    Edited by - RixPDA on 21 avr. 2006 02:24:46
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  00:16:02  Show Profile
    Your log shows 6 crashes over the course of 8 minutes. Since you asked about GetLastError, I will break down all the info in the first crash report, as an example to explain what this log information shows us...

    quote:
    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:40:05
    The meaning of this much should be obvious.

    quote:
    WM message 32771
    The WM message shows the highest level command Mapopolis was processing when it crashed. Up until now, all of the crash logs I have seen since later 4.6x betas have begun with WM message 32770 which is defined as WM_GPSUPDATE, which means that the background task which reads and processes GPS input has posted some updated data to the main window procedure, and now the main window procedure is making use of the new data, i.e. to repaint the map at the new position, etc. However, this one was WM message 32771, which is a NAVIGATION update, which means that GPS data has NOT changed, but something else has changed to necessitate redrawing the navigation panel.

    Which panel mode did you have showing?

    I see that the time was 7:40pm. Maybe that is pertinent. One of the cases where it can trigger a navigation update is after redrawing the map for night colors when automatically switching from day to night (or vice-versa). Was it the exact moment of dusk when this happened? Do you have the option turned on to automatically switch colors?

    It's possible this gives us a clue about the GPS Update crashes. When a GPS Update is running, it also has to perform a navigation update if a nav panel is showing, but it just does it - that is, it does not post a WM message to have it done later, so that part of the GPS Update process does not appear as a separate event under the crash log if something goes wrong. It's possible you have just narrowed down our problem to an error while repainting the navigation panel... for example, one obvious thought that jumps to mind is that if we try to draw past the bottom of the screen, then we are writing to a memory address that is past the end of the display buffer, which is a memory access violation, code 5...

    quote:
    WM Parms 0, 0
    These are the windows message parameters, and their meaning depends on the WM Message. The problematic WM messages for us have been WM message 32770 (GPS Update) and now 32771 (Navigation Update) both of which are application-defined and do not use the parameters for anything.

    All WM message codes less than 32769 (hex 0x8000 or binary 1000000000000000) are defined by Microsoft and most of them use the parameters, for example WM message 273 is WM_COMMAND which tells us there was a user command generated by executing menu commands and/or pressing toolbar buttons, in which case the WM parms indicate a numeric code for which command, for example Zoom In, Zoom Out, Show GPS Data Window, etc. This sometimes helps us narrow down what part of the program was running when it crashed, but not in this case.

    quote:
    Code 5
    This is the "exception code" also defined by Microsoft to describe what kind of Fatal Exception occured. A Fatal Exception occurs when an application program like Mapopolis breaks the laws of programming and tries to do something it is not allowed to do (almost always because of a programmer's error). By far the most common is code 5 which is a "memory access violation" which means that Mapopolis tried to use a memory address it did not own. (I think I saw a code 6 once a long time ago, but I forget what code 6 means...) Memory access violations are critical in a multi-tasking operating system, otherwise the different programs you run at the same time would accidentally overwrite each other's memory and they would BOTH crash instead of just one.

    quote:
    Flags 0
    These are the exception flags and can indicate more detailed information about the exception. I've never seen them non-zero, but hey, some day it might provide some useful clue.

    quote:
    Address 33195716
    This is the memory address Mapopolis was running in when it crashed. One might think you could use this to find the line of code that failed, but alas no. The OS loads the program to a different "random" memory address every time you start the program, so without knowing the start/load address for this session, this memory address is not useful. Even with the starting address, the memory address of the exception is usually inside a library function which was CALLED incorrectly.

    For example the statement "memcpy(0,0,0);" calls a library function to copy memory. It says to copy zero bytes of memory from address zero to address zero. Memory address zero belongs to the OS, not Mapopolis, so this will cause a memory access violation, code 5 exception, but the memory address of the last line of code to be executed before the exception will be inside the memcpy function, which may have been called from hundreds of different places throughout the Mapopolis code base... so even if we could use this memory address to find that it crashed inside memcpy, that doesn't tell us the critical logical error that happened some time before the crash in our own code...

    quote:
    XR Parms 0, 573046784
    More extended information about the exception that may some day tell us a useful clue, but in general do not provide useful information.

    quote:
    GetLastError: 6
    GetLastError is a Windows API (Application Programmer Interface) which returns the last error code encountered by any other Windows API. In this case, GetLastError 6 means "the handle is invalid" and later on you got GetLastError 120 which means "this operation is not supported on this system."

    Unfortunately, in most cases, the GetLastError code in one our crash log reports is completely irrelevent because MOST Windows API functions are EXPECTED to fail under certain situations, and we have already checked for this failure and taken appropriate steps without always calling SetLastError(0) to clear the result from any future call to GetLastError().



    After the first crash, it crashed 5 more times, most likely as a direct result of the first crash. After it crashes the first time, we give you a chance to "attempt error recovery" Let me explain briefly what that means... We reset a few critical pieces of data, and then we pretend than the error never happened. But we do not fully reset the entire state of the program, and it's likely that something is still messed up, because when it crashed, it never finished what it was in the middle of doing at the time, which leaves loose ends untidied... these loose ends are likely the cause of the subsequent 5 crashes you received.

    quote:
    Is it a good idea to do a soft reset before using Mapopolis, I think that would help memory errors, assuming I am getting them.
    In theory a soft reset should not prevent memory errors because the complete memory usage state of a program is supposed to be wiped out, cleaned, and any problems fixed by the OS when it exits. In practice, sometimes programs leave the OS in a permamently broken state until you soft-reset. So unless you've had a crash in some program since the last time you soft-reset, it's unlikely that a soft reset would prevent memory errors, though it is very slightly possible that it can help. Sorry that's kind of a vague answer...

    Anyway, bottom line here is that I think the 32771 may be a critical clue and we're going to take a good hard look at the nav pane code to see if we're going past the bottom of the screen in some cases or something like that. If you have had a crash like this, please let us know which Panel To Show was showing when it crashed.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  02:10:05  Show Profile
    Hi Ris, thanks for the very detailed explanation. I certainally did not mean to cause you this much work!

    Hopefully something good can come from the 32771 error explaination - I am fairly certain since I always use the smaller "navigation pane" almost 100% of the time and that was what was displayed at crash time. But doesn't it automatically go "large" size (about 1/2 the PDA screen) when a manuever is coming up (can't recall)? Maybe this is a clue since my crashes seem to always occur just before/after a turn (when needed most!). And the map certainally zooms in automatically near an upcoming turn (unrelated?).

    I'll certain pay much more attention to it now. I always leave it on the small navigation pane when routing since it just make sense to me (to show the next manuver and display as much map as possible).

    Finally, I do not use the auto day/night color switching so you can rule that out.

    Thanks and regards, Joshua

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  16:00:32  Show Profile
    PS - since I seem to get these on a regular basis, would it be benefical for me to run the diagnostic version? Is the detail contained in that log of greater help to you ? (Downside - I know its a lot to weed through to find the crash when it occurs). I'm glad to help in any manner. Joshua

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  20:24:03  Show Profile
    Hi Joshua, thanks for the continued info. I want to make sure I understand... When you say the "smaller navigation pane" do you mean literally the "Panel to Show > Navigation Pane" in the not "[X] Large Format" (i.e. small) format? Or do you mean the smaller "Panel To Shown > Turn Reminder" panel, which is like a smaller version of the Navigation Panel?

    quote:
    But doesn't it automatically go "large" size (about 1/2 the PDA screen) when a manuever is coming up (can't recall)?
    The [X] Large Format option does NOT turn itself on when a maneuver is coming up, however the option to "[X] Show Automatically" will switch it from the smaller Turn Reminder panel to the larger Navigation Panel when a turn is coming, and then back to Turn Reminder when the maneuver is complete.

    So I have the idea that you run it in Turn Reminder panel mode most of the time (also my favorite mode) and then occasionally when it switches to Navigation Panel mode because of [X] Show Automatically and a turn coming up ahead, it will crash.

    Are you using the "[X] Large Format" option ON or OFF?

    If you're getting the problem on a regular basis, then YES, the diagnostic version would be very helpul.
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  22:07:19  Show Profile
    Thanks for the message - Yes, I have "[X} Large Format" always OFF and navigate primarily using the "Panel To Show > Turn Reminder" mode most of the time. I just get to it differently, by using the hat switch to cycle through the various panel views (which I love). And the "[X] Show Automatically" is always enabled.

    quote:

    So I have the idea that you run it in Turn Reminder panel mode most of the time (also my favorite mode) and then occasionally when it switches to Navigation Panel mode because of [X] Show Automatically and a turn coming up ahead, it will crash.



    This pretty much sums my normal navigation mode although I can't swear that the crashes are always triggered by upcoming turns. They seem to occur around "manuvers", most notably AFTER a turn and the resulting positive routing on course "ding" sound. But I've also had one in recent memory along a expressway some 20 miles in between turns, so go figure.

    I will gladly install the diagnostic version, I have done so in the past but had problems with the version expiring in the middle of business trips.

    Thanks & regards, Joshua

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  22:35:26  Show Profile
    Ooops - I just intstalled the diagnostic version from the link on page 1, the PC installer version, installed it over the normal beta. When I went to run it, I got a wierd error message about an unexpected log (?) and then a "debug build expired" message, then termination.

    Edit - did a fresh install of the cab version and got the same "debug build expired" message. Going back to the normal beta for the weekend.

    Help?

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10

    Edited by - joshua362 on 21 avr. 2006 22:53:18
    Go to Top of Page

    lamar@mapopolis.com

    USA
    2508 Posts

    Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  23:00:58  Show Profile  Visit lamar@mapopolis.com's Homepage
    Hi, Joshua,

    I'm sorry I didn't catch this sooner. The debug builds have a short expiration life. I usually tell folks to wait until the NEXT beta version is posted to try it.

    Lamar

    "A journey is like marriage. The certain way to be wrong is to think you control it." –- John Steinbeck
    Go to Top of Page

    cgavula

    USA
    230 Posts

    Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  23:08:58  Show Profile
    I have a question that I've seen at least partially mentioned, but it's a bug I've been running into for the last few revisions and I didn't see an answer in the forum yet, so I suspect there aren't a lot of us with this glitch.

    The problem is that I get a GPS connection (I'm using an Emtac S3 BT Receiver and an HP 4705 running WM5) and once the connection is made I can ONLY get a N up view. Looking at the GPS page, I can see LAT/LON and altitue but nothing for heading and nothing for speed, no matter how fast I'm going. The icon on the map follows my position, but, as I said, the display is N up only and there is no arrow/pointer bulge to my icon - only the blue circle. Any idea what might cause this? This doesn't happen in TomTom or OCN 5 (among others) so I don't think it's a receiver problem/

    Also - in earlier versions the fix was reported as Enhanced 3D (I'm assuming for DGPS support or WAAS support) but now it only ever shows 3D, the Enhanced never appears. Nothing has been changed on the receiver and other apps seem to use it correctly.

    Anyone else seen this?

    Thanks for any help you can provide.
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  23:11:01  Show Profile
    Oh yeah, sorry about that. This expiration issue comes up a little too much, so we'll extend it from two weeks to a month. I don't want to extend it further than that because after much time passes, we've usually made enough changes to the program that the older diagnostics are not useful anymore.
    Go to Top of Page

    RixPDA

    USA
    44 Posts

    Posted - 22 avr. 2006 :  01:41:25  Show Profile
    "Find" doesn't seem to work with named landmark favorites but does work with poi favorites from map data. Similar to my previous post concerning "Navigation". Can you confirm?

    Rick
    Dell X50v, ROM A03, 1GB CF&SD, WM2003SE, Std Video, Mapopolis v4.7.01, NE Maps, Dell BT309 GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 22 avr. 2006 :  01:48:38  Show Profile
    We are still at least a few days from .02, but I just want to post a few words to clarify about two upcoming release notes in the works for .02 before they come up as bug reports...

    * Changes "[X] Blink LED at Index [list]" to "Select LED or vibrator [list]" with the added list option "NONE" to disable the feature in the absence of the removed checkbox

    Users who are upgrading will have to adjust the selected device if you have this feature turned on, because the option may get bumped down one from your previous selection when upgrading due to the addition of the new "NONE" option to the list. That is, if you had this feature turned on with LED2 selected, and you upgrade without deleting the mapopts.bin/bak files, then it will show LED1 (LED2 - 1), and likewise it will go from LED0 to NONE for the same reason. This might cause it to switch from an LED to a vibration control when upgrading.



    * Adds new option to "[X] Use GAPI for Video Performance" (this option was previously on automatic control)

    GAPI, or the Game API, or gx.dll, is only available on some devices. Of the devices on which it is available, it is only compatible with certain modes of operation and does not always work with Mapopolis. A prime example is the Treo 700w which offers gx.dll, but causes cosmetic display problems with Mapopolis if GAPI is used.

    The new version of Mapopolis 4.71.02 will offer a manual override to turn this feature on or off after the automatic decision making already available in 4.71.01 chooses a default setting. Most users should not change this option from the default.

    However, this will be useful for VGA "hack program" users who want to run Mapopolis in an emulated QVGA state using a program like SEVGA - if you disable GAPI, then Mapopolis should run OK in this mode. It may also be useful for users of very new Pocket PCs that become available after this release, which for some reason or another do not work with GAPI, but the Mapopolis default is to use GAPI (as was the case on the Treo 700w prior to 4.6x which disabled GAPI on square displays)

    Because of the Treo 700w, this option will be OFF by default on all Pocket PCs that have a square display. Some square display users may be able to get a video performance improvement in the map window in Mapopolis by turning this feature ON, if it is available and happens to work on your device.

    Turning this feature ON may cause display problems in the map view.

    Turning this feature OFF may degrade performance and create a sluggishness in the map view.

    The checkbox will be disabled if GAPI is not available on your device.
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 22 avr. 2006 :  02:01:57  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by RixPDA

    "Find" doesn't seem to work with named landmark favorites but does work with poi favorites from map data. Similar to my previous post concerning "Navigation". Can you confirm?

    Rick
    Dell X50v, ROM A03, 1GB CF&SD, WM2003SE, Std Video, Mapopolis v4.7.01, NE Maps, Dell BT309 GPS

    This is a known bug. Sometimes a favorite cannot be found when using the favorites list, usually after closing and restarting the program. This only happens with favorites that are references to POIs. Favorites which are references to street addresses or intersections do not appear to have the bug. The POI can still be found by a normal search, but something has become broken in the reference data that is the Favorite and the REFERENCE cannot be found, so it says something about not being able to find the map for this favorite. We've been trying to solve this bug for a long time with unfortunately little success.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    lbendlin

    USA
    482 Posts

    Posted - 22 avr. 2006 :  02:13:36  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
    Ris,

    the Treo 700W runs on Windows Mobile 5. I thought GAPI has been discarded as of Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition. You don't need the DLL any more, and have to use ExtEscape instead to obtain the address of the framebuffer.

    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 22 avr. 2006 :  02:39:30  Show Profile
    That's true Lutz, and yet, they still put the DLL there, which tricked us into using it, requiring some additional logic to shut it off again... The distinction of square displays was admittedly expedient, as is making it a user option for that matter.

    Also, that Microsoft documentation about using ExtEscape to replace GAPI is incorrect or incomplete - I was never able to get that to work. All I got was a black screen. Looking into it closer, I learned that it is up to the OEM to implement ExtEscape correctly, which means they usually don't. They would have to use a linear frame buffer for ExtEscape to work with Mapopolis anyway, and we can't depend on that to be the case.

    At present, we use slower DIB routines in the absence of GAPI, and it's fast enough on most devices where it's required.

    Anyway, performance is not really the key issue for us, because our video requirements are not that extreme compared to most games. The issue for us is compatibility. Since there's this code in place to use GAPI and it generally works for a lot of people, I don't want to throw it away entirely in the name of optimal compatibility, so that's why it's becoming a user option.
    Go to Top of Page

    lbendlin

    USA
    482 Posts

    Posted - 22 avr. 2006 :  04:31:16  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
    I see.
    Talking about games - we are currently beta testing iGO, the new star on the navigation horizon (erm... whatever). It's an offspring of PDAmill.com .
    Their graphic engine is fantastic so you could ask them a thing or two. On the other hand they struggle with the hardware key assignments, and I told them that you have solved that issue long ago. Might be an idea to get in contact with those guys to trade some experience.

    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
    Go to Top of Page

    CColtManM

    USA
    55 Posts

    Posted - 22 avr. 2006 :  20:00:25  Show Profile
    iGO is fantastic, i wish they had a US version of their maps and programs.
    Go to Top of Page

    lbendlin

    USA
    482 Posts

    Posted - 23 avr. 2006 :  02:51:49  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
    They do have US maps, I am beta testing them now. But please, let's focus on Mapopolis here.

    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
    Go to Top of Page

    polycloud

    USA
    2 Posts

    Posted - 24 avr. 2006 :  19:42:23  Show Profile
    Pardon my ignorance, but will there (or is there) a way to selectively turn off certain types of POI's? I just have having my screen cluttered with dots when there are certain POI types I just don't care about.
    I know I can turn them all off, but I really just want selected types turned on.

    BTW, the POI database was amazing while I was in Hawaii! Found restaurants and gas stations so easily.
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 24 avr. 2006 :  20:11:18  Show Profile
    Hi polycloud, welcome to the forums! Unfortunately, Mapopolis does not currently offer any way to selectively show some POIs but not others. We plan to add that feature in the future.
    Go to Top of Page

    cellneuron

    36 Posts

    Posted - 24 avr. 2006 :  20:48:20  Show Profile
    Hi Ris,

    can you leak some info to us about which version will have some new interface change, like finger input?

    From your previous posts, you guys are inverstigating a lot of finger input UI? any results?

    TT5 has a very good finger input UI.

    Thanks
    Go to Top of Page

    admin_0

    1 Posts

    Posted - 25 avr. 2006 :  00:47:07  Show Profile
    I have a Treo 700, and for the most part mapoplis works great. One problem I have found is when you go to find all places by type, there are 3 icons across and 3 down. I tried clicking on one and changing the category to fuel station, but it tells me "Petrol/Gasoline Station already used". I'm assuming the Icon is already there but is not showing up in the short treo screen, but there are no scoll bars to get to it. I would really like to be able to use this option. Thanks

    Kevin
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 25 avr. 2006 :  01:03:47  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by cellneuron

    Hi Ris,

    can you leak some info to us about which version will have some new interface change, like finger input?

    From your previous posts, you guys are inverstigating a lot of finger input UI? any results?

    TT5 has a very good finger input UI.

    Thanks

    We don't have a specific version or date planned so there's really no info I can give you right now. I can say it will probably NOT be any time before June of this year, although I'm sure that's rather disappointing.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 25 avr. 2006 :  01:08:30  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by kevrowe

    I have a Treo 700, and for the most part mapoplis works great. One problem I have found is when you go to find all places by type, there are 3 icons across and 3 down. I tried clicking on one and changing the category to fuel station, but it tells me "Petrol/Gasoline Station already used". I'm assuming the Icon is already there but is not showing up in the short treo screen, but there are no scoll bars to get to it. I would really like to be able to use this option. Thanks

    Kevin

    I know intuitively why this happens and the fix will be very easy. Unfortunately, 4.71.02 is already built and working its way towards the forum, so its too late to include this fix in 4.71.02, but it will definitely be fixed in .03 which should become available within the next 2 weeks.

    OK, so I leaked that 4.71.02 is done and heading for the forums... PLEASE do NOT go looking for downloads until the official announcement and release notes are posted, or you might get an incomplete file.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    brobinson

    USA
    101 Posts

    Posted - 25 avr. 2006 :  19:38:16  Show Profile
    Just took 4.71.02 out for a test drive on my way home for lunch. When trying to create a route before the GPS had a fix, I got an error and attempted recovery. A few seconds later, I got another error and exited. Here is the text from errlog.txt:

    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.02 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-25, 12:35:00
    WM message 32770
    WM Parms 0, 0
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 209384
    XR Parms 0, 1266790097
    GetLastError: 0
    Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.02 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-25, 12:35:13
    WM message 32770
    WM Parms 0, 0
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 209384
    XR Parms 0, 1266790097
    GetLastError: 0

    When I restarted, the GPS then had a fixed and all worked normally.

    The good news is that Mapopolis was able to open the virtual GPS port correctly.



    Dell Axim X50v, Motorola MPx220, Haicom 303E with bluetooth slipper, Royaltek RBT-3000
    Go to Top of Page

    cellneuron

    36 Posts

    Posted - 25 avr. 2006 :  20:54:04  Show Profile
    All those bug fixes are nice. All those small improvements are OK.

    I just feel that the progress is a little slow. GPS app is a HUGE market in the next 10 years. Some people said the fist wave of cell phone is every cell phone comes with a camera and the second wave is every cell phone comes with GPS (Not A-GPS which is already included). The first wave is almost over and the second one is coming. I really hope Mapopolis can see the market and sqeeze itself to some of cell phones.

    The data and algorithum of Mapopolis are perfect and don't really need much tweaking. But the UI of mapopolis is too out-of-state. There is no hope to get into any cell phone if current UI will exist forever.

    Thinking about your competitor, tomtom5, which is already included in a lot of smartphones. The map data and the features of Tomtom 5 are much worse than that of Mapopolis, but they have a good UI, which is almost idiot-proof operation experience.

    Carry up, guys.

    By the way, Tomtom 6 is around the corner with new version map.
    Go to Top of Page

    welmoed

    USA
    32 Posts

    Posted - 25 avr. 2006 :  21:06:46  Show Profile
    New version installed and whoohoo, no more problems recognizing my Pharos. Picked it up within about two seconds and never dropped. We have a winnah!

    --Welmoed


    iPaq 2215, Pharos GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    lbendlin

    USA
    482 Posts

    Posted - 25 avr. 2006 :  21:49:39  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
    @cellneuron,

    your comments regarding the smartphone version are not entirely correct. Smartphones do not have touchscreens, and have a different data entry paradigm (menu buttons/ number keys only). The Mapopolis UI works much better on the Smartphone than it does on the Pocket PC, and is on par or even better than the TomTom UI.

    The only advantage of TomTom that I can see is that they have a version for Symbian.

    Did you know that TomTom Mobile isn't actually sold in the US?



    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
    Go to Top of Page

    cellneuron

    36 Posts

    Posted - 25 avr. 2006 :  22:41:15  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by lbendlin

    @cellneuron,

    your comments regarding the smartphone version are not entirely correct. Smartphones do not have touchscreens, and have a different data entry paradigm (menu buttons/ number keys only). The Mapopolis UI works much better on the Smartphone than it does on the Pocket PC, and is on par or even better than the TomTom UI.

    The only advantage of TomTom that I can see is that they have a version for Symbian.

    Did you know that TomTom Mobile isn't actually sold in the US?



    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers



    I am talking about the general definition of smartphone, which include treo 600, 650, 700, Pocket PC phone, SYMBIAN or any other smart phone, not the definition from M$. About the touch screen, 99% smartphone in the next 10 years will have the touch screen, including M$ smartphone. The next generation (WM6, Not WM5 second edition) of windows mobile will combine the Pocket PC and smartphone edition into one. I hope at that time, Mapopolis will also combine its two versions into one.

    I don't know TT5 even has a version for MS smartphone, let alone symbian OS.

    As to the availability of Tomtom in US, I am not sure if you are talking about a formal press or not. You can find the Tomtom mobile navigation (software or package) online (www.buygpsnow.com, www.amazon.com, and so on.) and local (Palm local store).

    What I want to explain here is not about Tomtom 5, it is all about Mapopolis. Adding the features like vibrate and LED reminding, clock setting from GPS signal or even compatiable with hacked toshiba e800 are nice and will please the current customers, but in the long run (except mapopolis has another team designing the next generation mapopolis), it will do harm to the future of Mapopolis. The top priority of Mapopolis is make it easier using for a common man/women who has no knowledge about ppc, palm or GPS at all.
    Go to Top of Page

    Lizard_weasel

    USA
    892 Posts

    Posted - 25 avr. 2006 :  23:26:08  Show Profile
    Still using the last beta until I load the newest one in a bit. Saw something I hadn't seen for a while today and I thought was gone. I was turnign onto a US route and got a "Switching to long haul mode" message. Now I understood this was something having to do with your licensing, that is no longer a concern. Isn't this a bit of code that could be easily removed and save a bit of space on the program?

    Axim x50v, A05 ROM/Globalsat BT-338 Bluetooth GPS/2gb PNY SD card/2gb Kingston CF card/Mapopolis 4.7RC4 with NE maps.
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  00:33:30  Show Profile
    I downloaded the debug version of the .02 beta and am getting a repeating "assertion failure - check log" message right off the bat. It won't save my personalized settings and the message repeats even after exiting Mapopolis. Help! Thanks

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10

    Edited by - joshua362 on 26 avr. 2006 00:46:51
    Go to Top of Page

    Lizard_weasel

    USA
    892 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  01:28:32  Show Profile
    I have basically the same setup you have, joshua....no problem here with running the program. Haven't tried hooked to a gps yet.

    Axim x50v, A05 ROM/Globalsat BT-338 Bluetooth GPS/2gb PNY SD card/2gb Kingston CF card/Mapopolis 4.7RC4 with NE maps.
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  01:52:28  Show Profile
    Thank you, LW - I did an overwrite of the .01 beta with the .02 DEBUG version - maybe that's the problem? I'll do a full reinstall since none of my settings saved anyway. And I didn't get as far as the GPS either, the error message is immediate. Thanks again.

    Update - did a full, clean install - same problem with the DEBUG version. I'll have to wait for Ris...

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10

    Edited by - joshua362 on 26 avr. 2006 02:11:15
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  02:20:04  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by joshua362

    I downloaded the debug version of the .02 beta and am getting a repeating "assertion failure - check log" message right off the bat. It won't save my personalized settings and the message repeats even after exiting Mapopolis. Help! Thanks

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10

    An assertion failure will only occur in a diagnostic build. If you use the non-diagnostic pocket PC build, then the assertion failure will go away. However, I would very much like to see the assertion failure information from your log, so please send it to support@mapopolis.com

    An assertion failure means that an expected condition of operation was not met. The code for this is like:

    ASSERT(some condition is true);

    The assertion fails if the expected condition is not actually true. Most likely, the program will fail in some other way afterward, because it's logic is based on the premise that "some condition is true" and if that basic premise is not actually true, then all the rest of the logic is actually wrong, and will produce unexpected results, which are what we generically call "Bugs"

    There are two general cases where an assertion failure can occur
    1) We wrote the assertion statement wrong, and defined the expected condition incorrectly, in which case it's really not a problem
    2) You have an unusual situation where you have entered unexpected data into the system, and we did not foresee that case, so we made an assumption that your case would never come up, and it came up anyway.

    Either way I really need to see your log in order to analyze the assertion failures to see how the program logic has gone wrong. And in the mean time, you can get smooth operation back if you reinstall from the non-diagnostic Pocket PC version.

    If you were running the diagnostic version for a specific problem you have been encountering regularly, then the assertion failures probably explain exactly the logical error that was causing the problems you were trying to diagnose.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  02:30:45  Show Profile
    Ok Ris, sending it off right now. Remember, it occured immediately upon first running after a clean install. I was using the diagnostic version to hopefully solve the crashing while navigation but this time I never got further than setting my preferences, with the GPS unattached. Regards Joshua.

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  02:31:08  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Lizard_weasel

    Still using the last beta until I load the newest one in a bit. Saw something I hadn't seen for a while today and I thought was gone. I was turnign onto a US route and got a "Switching to long haul mode" message. Now I understood this was something having to do with your licensing, that is no longer a concern. Isn't this a bit of code that could be easily removed and save a bit of space on the program?

    Axim x50v, A05 ROM/Globalsat BT-338 Bluetooth GPS/2gb PNY SD card/2gb Kingston CF card/Mapopolis 4.7RC4 with NE maps.

    Our licensing restrictions with Navteq have not changed, and they are still a concern.

    I think you are confusing this notice with the population limit, and related error message. The limit of 20 million population is still enforced and applicable to our data license, however, we now take a different approach to it in order to allow unlimited map selections under Choose Maps, while behind the scenes we do not allow more than 20 million population to enter into RAM at the same time, or be processed in the same operation, in accordance with our data license.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    cgavula

    USA
    230 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  06:53:20  Show Profile
    I'm still seeing the problem I reported recently where speed/heading never appear and stuck in north-up mode.

    I also accidently installed the debug version first, then got rid of it and installed the nin-debug version. While the debug version was installed I saw assertion error after assertion error after assertion error - this was right after the application launched and continued until I quit the app.

    --Chris
    Go to Top of Page

    brobinson

    USA
    101 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  14:12:28  Show Profile
    I noticed this morning that in 4.71.02 the GPS satellite screen remains blank until the GPS aquires a fix. This has always shown satellite data in prior versions before a fix is aquired.

    Dell Axim X50v, Motorola MPx220, Haicom 303E with bluetooth slipper, Royaltek RBT-3000
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  15:54:59  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by cgavula



    I also accidently installed the debug version first, then got rid of it and installed the nin-debug version. While the debug version was installed I saw assertion error after assertion error after assertion error - this was right after the application launched and continued until I quit the app.

    --Chris



    Thank you - this is exactly my problem. I've run debug versions in the past without a problem.

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10

    Edited by - joshua362 on 26 avr. 2006 15:58:57
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  21:40:02  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by brobinson

    I noticed this morning that in 4.71.02 the GPS satellite screen remains blank until the GPS aquires a fix. This has always shown satellite data in prior versions before a fix is aquired.

    Oops, thanks for noticing, we'll fix that.
    quote:
    I'm still seeing the problem I reported recently where speed/heading never appear and stuck in north-up mode
    Hmmm, I wonder why it does this... You said older versions of the software reported the speed/heading from the same GPS hardware, right? So it must be a software problem... we're looking into it.

    The diagnostic in .02 had a problem reading/writing the program options file, generating incorrect assertion failures (the condition we asserted would be true was incorrectly defined). For that reason alone, we will be popping out a new .03 shortly for a few quick fixes. Most of the remaining problems will NOT be addressed in .03 because I am under a mandated project from the Big Boss this week (more news on that next week when we ask you guys to start testing it for us) so .03 is only intended to fix a few very simple problems and enable the diagnostic build to be used.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    CColtManM

    USA
    55 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  22:00:23  Show Profile
    Also a reminder, unistall completely before reinstalling. Helped me out more then once.
    Go to Top of Page

    Lizard_weasel

    USA
    892 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  22:34:19  Show Profile
    I haven't done an uninstall in months, and I have very rarely ever had a problem with Mapopolis.

    Axim x50v, A05 ROM/Globalsat BT-338 Bluetooth GPS/2gb PNY SD card/2gb Kingston CF card/Mapopolis 4.7RC4 with NE maps.
    Go to Top of Page

    AllanHvass

    Denmark
    396 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  22:37:36  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by CColtManM

    Also a reminder, unistall completely before reinstalling. Helped me out more then once.


    Unless you're troubleshooting specific issues related to upgrading, that shouldn't really be necessary anymore. Somewhere along v. 4.7 this was a new feature that you could upgrade on top of older versions and keep the settings. I used to do it the old way as well, but I've yet to see an issue that's related to not deleting the old settings file since v. 4.7. And especially for us beta testers it's a huge benefit, because it lowers the barrier to test new beta versions significantly, as there's a number of settings I don't have to repeat for each beta install; my setup is certainly quite different from the default settings

    Best regards
    Allan Hvass

    Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  23:12:58  Show Profile
    This isn't new to the beta as far as I know, but it is an ongoing problem that I'd love to see a fix for...

    Basically, my normal procedure often goes like this: I use Mapopolis to drive to my destination and arrive in a hurry. So, I just hit the power button on my Axim, drop it into it's case, and go to wherever I need to be.

    Often, I'll end up not using my PDA again at all that day. The next morning, it is usually DEAD.

    What I believe is happening is that it activates itself around midnight to update daily tasks, alarms, and such. (That's what I've been told most PocketPCs do, at least -- a midnight temporary power-on.) Since Mapopolis is running (see above where I just hit the power button in the car -- I never closed Mapopolis) and I have the "don't power off" feature selected, it appears to either stay on or otherwise draw normal power! Thus killing my battery by the time I use it the next day.

    Does that seem like it might be the case? Is there a way to detect that the device has powered up only for the nightly update and not manually -- so that Mapopolis would NOT enforce the "don't power off" option when it is in this state?

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4500 Car Mount w/ wired Pharos button GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    irishjohn

    Ireland
    141 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  23:29:08  Show Profile
    Hi Ris

    Loaded 02 not much to report here, went for a spin down the unknown motorway and the same thing, rerouted about 10 times and then gave up. Another problem I have is I have a landmark saved and no mater what I do when I add it to favourite I cant route to it unless I go SHOW MAPLET chick on it and then click route to. Apart form that Mapopolis is Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat.

    Regards
    John

    Dell Axim x50v / 1gb sd card / Europe Ireland Mapopolis 4.7
    Go to Top of Page

    jarredduq

    USA
    27 Posts

    Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  23:37:00  Show Profile  Visit jarredduq's Homepage
    quote:
    Originally posted by irishjohn

    Hi Ris

    Loaded 02 not much to report here, went for a spin down the unknown motorway and the same thing, rerouted about 10 times and then gave up. Another problem I have is I have a landmark saved and no mater what I do when I add it to favourite I cant route to it unless I go SHOW MAPLET chick on it and then click route to. Apart form that Mapopolis is Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat.

    Regards
    John

    Dell Axim x50v / 1gb sd card / Europe Ireland Mapopolis 4.7



    I'm having the same issue with maplets too, you cannot route to a maplet if it is added to favorites.

    Palm Treo 700w - Mapopolis 4.71.02
    Go to Top of Page

    lbendlin

    USA
    482 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  00:20:57  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
    quote:
    Originally posted by jgoggan Is there a way to detect that the device has powered up only for the nightly update and not manually -- so that Mapopolis would NOT enforce the "don't power off" option when it is in this state?


    Not really. How should Mapopolis know that you are sleeping at midnight. You might have switched the device on yourself at 12 am...

    Your only solution/workaround is to uncheck "Disable Auto Power Off" in Mapopolis.

    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  00:30:27  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by jgoggan

    This isn't new to the beta as far as I know, but it is an ongoing problem that I'd love to see a fix for...

    Basically, my normal procedure often goes like this: I use Mapopolis to drive to my destination and arrive in a hurry. So, I just hit the power button on my Axim, drop it into it's case, and go to wherever I need to be.

    Often, I'll end up not using my PDA again at all that day. The next morning, it is usually DEAD.

    What I believe is happening is that it activates itself around midnight to update daily tasks, alarms, and such. (That's what I've been told most PocketPCs do, at least -- a midnight temporary power-on.) Since Mapopolis is running (see above where I just hit the power button in the car -- I never closed Mapopolis) and I have the "don't power off" feature selected, it appears to either stay on or otherwise draw normal power! Thus killing my battery by the time I use it the next day.

    Does that seem like it might be the case? Is there a way to detect that the device has powered up only for the nightly update and not manually -- so that Mapopolis would NOT enforce the "don't power off" option when it is in this state?

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4500 Car Mount w/ wired Pharos button GPS

    Hmmmm... this is a very interesting problem. There's no way to programmatically detect why the device has powered on, so we can't really auto-disable the option to auto-disable power off based on this condition.

    I can suggest two work-arounds: stop GPS and/or exit Mapopolis (Tools>Exit) before powering off the PDA. Then the option will not be applied, and Mapopolis will allow the device to power off.

    I'm trying to think of changes we could make to the feature... suppose it would allow power off if the GPS is running in Mapopolis but the hardware is "not responding"? Presumably in your situation, the GPS is off and unavailable, which implies that you aren't driving with it and don't need it to keep your PPC on, which may imply that we can safely allow the device to turn off in these circumstances. Does anyone foresee pitfalls with this idea? Do we need to make it two options? [X] Disable auto-power off (As-is) vs. [X] Disable auto-power off UNLESS gps is not responding. Hmmm, or this could take a form in the UI like:

    
    [X] Disable auto-power off
        [X] Allow auto-power off if GPS is not responding
    


    ---

    Also, I think your assessment of the problem sounds very reasonable, and is probably correct. However, if you want to verify that is actually what happens, you might try running the diagnostic version (wait for .03). The log would show time stamps indicating when it ran, so you could actually verify whether the device is turning on in the middle of the night or not.

    I can also suggest an alternate theory about why the battery dies: it's not really "off" it's just "suspended". It is not possible to actually turn OFF a WM PPC, only to suspend it. In a suspended state, a WM Pocket PC still draws from the battery in order to keep the RAM powered to avoid the memory getting erased. WM5 improves this so that when the battery eventually dies it behaves like a soft reset instead of a hard/factory reset (avoiding the memory wipe) but my understanding is that it still drains the battery while suspended, if not only to continue feeding power to the RAM and keyboard (the power button). So it's possible that your device does not actually turn itself on in the middle of the night, but rather it could be draining a lot of battery life while suspended.

    Speculating here... maybe it's possible that the PPC continues to power the serial port hardware while suspended, since there is a device physically connected to it (your Pharos), which causes it to drain the battery faster than usual while suspended. Maybe unplugging the GPS from the PPC would make give you a longer battery life while suspended.

    You should normally be able to get at least a few days of battery life to support a suspended PPC, so it's a big stretch to say that it's just draining too much battery life while suspended, but I felt it was worth mentioning.

    Does anyone have any other thoughts about this issue?

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
    Go to Top of Page

    irishjohn

    Ireland
    141 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  01:03:39  Show Profile
    hi jarredduq
    I have a couple of hundrad maplets and there is only one or two I can't add to favourates and then route to that favourate most of them work

    Regards
    john

    Dell Axim x50v / 1gb sd card / Europe Ireland Mapopolis 4.7
    Go to Top of Page

    RixPDA

    USA
    44 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  03:09:17  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris

    quote:
    Originally posted by RixPDA

    "Find" doesn't seem to work with named landmark favorites but does work with poi favorites from map data. Similar to my previous post concerning "Navigation". Can you confirm?

    Rick
    Dell X50v, ROM A03, 1GB CF&SD, WM2003SE, Std Video, Mapopolis v4.7.01, NE Maps, Dell BT309 GPS

    This is a known bug. Sometimes a favorite cannot be found when using the favorites list, usually after closing and restarting the program. This only happens with favorites that are references to POIs. Favorites which are references to street addresses or intersections do not appear to have the bug. The POI can still be found by a normal search, but something has become broken in the reference data that is the Favorite and the REFERENCE cannot be found, so it says something about not being able to find the map for this favorite. We've been trying to solve this bug for a long time with unfortunately little success.

    Best Regards,
    Ris

    Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
    Mapopolis.com Inc

    C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!



    quote:
    Originally posted by IrishJohn
    Another problem I have is I have a landmark saved and no mater what I do when I add it to favourite I cant route to it unless I go SHOW MAPLET chick on it and then click route to. Apart form that Mapopolis is Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat.



    quote:
    Originally posted by jarredduq
    I'm having the same issue with maplets too, you cannot route to a maplet if it is added to favorites.



    Aren't we talking about the same problem I mentioned a page or two back? Old problem, no solution?

    Rick
    Dell X50v, ROM A03, 1GB CF&SD, WM2003SE, Std Video, Mapopolis v4.7.02, NE Maps, Dell BT309 GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  03:29:19  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by lbendlin

    Not really. How should Mapopolis know that you are sleeping at midnight. You might have switched the device on yourself at 12 am...


    Um, that's why I asked if there was a PROGRAMMATIC WAY to tell if the device had powered on from sleep mode to do the daily updates. That is how Mapopolis would know that I didn't switch it on myself. Did you even read what I asked?

    The fact that MS doesn't provide a way to know this programmatically is just poor design on the part of MS.

    quote:
    Your only solution/workaround is to uncheck "Disable Auto Power Off" in Mapopolis.


    No, there are other solutions that COULD be implemented. That is what I wanted to discuss.

    - John...



    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4500 Car Mount w/ wired Pharos button GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    lbendlin

    USA
    482 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  03:32:33  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
    quote:
    Originally posted by RisDoes anyone have any other thoughts about this issue?



    Even if the GPS is responding - you can still safely switch back off if the GPS position doesn't change substantially (let's say 50 meters in one minute)

    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  03:37:58  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris

    Hmmmm... this is a very interesting problem. There's no way to programmatically detect why the device has powered on, so we can't really auto-disable the option to auto-disable power off based on this condition.


    Ok -- that was worth a shot, at least. I think it is crazy that MS hasn't provided a programmatic way to see why a device was activated. They should tell that it was through a power button, awakened from sleep to do automatic tasks, activate by the voice record button, and so on. Oh well...

    quote:
    I can suggest two work-arounds: stop GPS and/or exit Mapopolis (Tools>Exit) before powering off the PDA. Then the option will not be applied, and Mapopolis will allow the device to power off.


    Indeed, I know that would work -- it is just that, once in a while, I just grab my PDA in a hurry and hit the power button thinking I'll close it later. I'll get used to doing it -- just an annoyance I was hoping to avoid.

    Basically, I think the idea that someone might forget to close Mapopolis could mean that their device is dead in the morning is a bad thing in any case though -- even if the user is partially to blame.

    On a side note, my GPS is in the card (in an intergrated Seidio mount). Any chance of an option for Mapopolis to still auto-shutoff if it can't find the GPS after a certain period? I mean, if "stop GPS" would solve it -- shouldn't a GPS not being present forever also solve it?

    quote:
    I'm trying to think of changes we could make to the feature... suppose it would allow power off if the GPS is running in Mapopolis but the hardware is "not responding"? Presumably in your situation, the GPS is off and unavailable, which implies that you aren't driving with it and don't need it to keep your PPC on, which may imply that we can safely allow the device to turn off in these circumstances.


    Exactly. (I should have read all of your post before replying above since we had the same idea. )

    quote:
    Also, I think your assessment of the problem sounds very reasonable, and is probably correct. However, if you want to verify that is actually what happens, you might try running the diagnostic version (wait for .03). The log would show time stamps indicating when it ran, so you could actually verify whether the device is turning on in the middle of the night or not.


    Sure -- I'll test this when .03 is out just to make sure.

    quote:
    So it's possible that your device does not actually turn itself on in the middle of the night, but rather it could be draining a lot of battery life while suspended.


    Indeed -- could be. I don't actually know that WM5 does the "on in the night" thing. I know that my PPC2003 device did -- I could just leave it out and catch it powering up for about 20 seconds a bit after midnight.

    quote:
    Speculating here... maybe it's possible that the PPC continues to power the serial port hardware while suspended, since there is a device physically connected to it (your Pharos), which causes it to drain the battery faster than usual while suspended. Maybe unplugging the GPS from the PPC would make give you a longer battery life while suspended.


    I need to update my profile. I recently switched to a in-the-mount Seidio mount instead of the Pharos -- so, when this happens, there is indeed no GPS present.

    quote:
    You should normally be able to get at least a few days of battery life to support a suspended PPC, so it's a big stretch to say that it's just draining too much battery life while suspended, but I felt it was worth mentioning.


    Indeed -- I normally easily get a couple days of life out of it -- well beyond actually. So, you're right, something different is happening when Mapopolis is left running -- even with no GPS connected. That is why my guess was that it was actually powering up and staying up -- repeatedly retrying the serial port. I figured that would be enough drain...

    In any case, thanks for the reply, Ris. I'll do some more testing (both with the diag version -- and just watching my PDA a few nights to see if it comes on and stays on)...

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4500 Car Mount w/ wired Pharos button GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    guxu

    USA
    132 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  17:27:04  Show Profile
    quote:
    suppose it would allow power off if the GPS is running in Mapopolis but the hardware is "not responding"?


    quote:
    Even if the GPS is responding - you can still safely switch back off if the GPS position doesn't change substantially (let's say 50 meters in one minute)


    This could be dangerous. If the user really is using Mapopolis, but somehow the connection was lost (GPS lost fix and etc., but will recover soon), then will the PPC suddenly power off while the user is trying to restore the connection?

    The second "motion-detect" suggestion is even more dangerous. Assume you never take Mapopolis for a walk, but you must stop at traffic light before. Do you want to restart Mapopolis after each red light?

    So Ris, if you have to implement this "feature", please, PLEASE make it optional.

    iPAQ h6315 + BT 338 + free mount
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  17:38:54  Show Profile
    These could be very extended timeouts, of course. I think the "1 minute" idea is crazy. How about after 1 HOUR? If there is no movement or no GPS signal -- and no user input -- for an extended period (whatever that would be -- but something LONG), then there is no need to continue to override any "auto-shut off" settings of the PDA.

    By doing it that way, I don't see that you'd even have to put the option in there really. I can't think of a reasonable situation where someone that normally has their GPS power off would want that over-ridden and forced to stay on just because they have Mapopolis up, but haven't used it nor received any GPS data for, say, more than an hour?

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4500 Car Mount w/ wired Pharos button GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    lbendlin

    USA
    482 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  18:25:05  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
    jgoggan,

    I'll ignore your snide remarks for a second, but I would think that this interval could be made configurable. For me one hour would be way too long, for you one minute is way too short etc.

    Don't forget the OS timeout - that is normally set to 3 minutes anyhow.

    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
    Go to Top of Page

    rfsmithsr

    USA
    39 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  18:31:28  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by lbendlin

    jgoggan,

    I'll ignore your snide remarks for a second, but I would think that this interval could be made configurable. For me one hour would be way too long, for you one minute is way too short etc.

    Don't forget the OS timeout - that is normally set to 3 minutes anyhow.

    Lutz
    iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers



    Lutz

    I suspect that we would all never agree on a specific timeout so a drop down box with minute increments (5, 10, 15, etc) would be a great option.


    Ron Smith

    4.71.02 beta, North America NE Maps, hp iPAQ 5555, WM2003, 1 GB SD Storage, BlueLogger GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    lamar@mapopolis.com

    USA
    2508 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  19:04:15  Show Profile  Visit lamar@mapopolis.com's Homepage
    4.71.03 "Sea Train" is up. From the front page..

    http://kudzumonthly.com/mapopolis/PPC/4.71.03_beta/

    and download this:

    Mapopolis_Pocket_PC_v4.71.03_Setup.exe

    All Platforms:
    * Fixes cosmetic bug in Color Settings window which failed to consider DST when showing the times of dawn/dusk
    * Fixes bug which prevented the satellite display from updating while waiting for a fix
    * Fixes bug setting the default value of the "Use GAPI" option which had been incorrectly turned off by default for most users

    Pocket PC:
    * (Treo 700w) Fixes bug which prevented the use of three POI categories in the Find All Places By Type window on Pocket PCs with square displays (petrol/gasoline stations, tourist attractions, and sports complex)

    PPC Diagnostic Edition:
    * Fixes bug which made this edition unable to save/load settings due to assertion failures
    * Adds diagnostics intended to find the cause of the "GPS Update" crashes (WM 32770 in the crash logs)

    Lamar

    "A journey is like marriage. The certain way to be wrong is to think you control it." –- John Steinbeck
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  19:22:03  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by lbendlin

    jgoggan,

    I'll ignore your snide remarks for a second, but I would think that this interval could be made configurable. For me one hour would be way too long, for you one minute is way too short etc.


    How can 1 hour be "way too long" for something that is currently infinity? 1 minute seems so short because we are talking about an odd condition where the unit has powered up and no one is using it. You should be able to go much more than 1 minute. 1 minute could easily shut it off when it is actually being used.

    Anything shorter than "normal" timeouts that are already built in as options for the OS don't make much sense is all.

    And, sorry if I came off as "snide" -- it was in response to you basically saying that nothing could be done about it from Mapopolis' point of view -- which really is NOT the case.

    quote:
    Don't forget the OS timeout - that is normally set to 3 minutes anyhow.


    Right -- so going with "1 minute" to have Mapopolis shut off makes very little sense.

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4850S Car Mount w/ integrated SIRF Star III GPSr.
    Go to Top of Page

    rfsmithsr

    USA
    39 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  19:27:41  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by jgoggan

    quote:
    Originally posted by lbendlin

    jgoggan,


    [quote]Don't forget the OS timeout - that is normally set to 3 minutes anyhow.


    Right -- so going with "1 minute" to have Mapopolis shut off makes very little sense.

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4850S Car Mount w/ integrated SIRF Star III GPSr.



    Regardless of the time the "re-enable timeout" would be in addition to the timeout set on the ppc. The default is 3 minutes but I have mine set to 5 minutes. Thus a one minute re-enable would shut mine off in 6 minutes.


    Ron Smith

    4.71.02 beta, North America NE Maps, hp iPAQ 5555, WM2003, 1 GB SD Storage, BlueLogger GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  19:42:46  Show Profile
    Yes, but the point of this is that some weird exception to the norm has occurred which would mean that you don't want Mapopolis to override the "auto shut off" stuff. For that sort of situation to occur, it really should be a much longer timeout, IMO.

    Otherwise, you're basically talking about just changing the situation to basically ignore the override setting if a GPS isn't available. That's really a different option, I think. As is an option to auto-shut-off if no movement occurs for a set amount of time.

    Granted, we can discuss those sorts of options -- but I think they are different than a situation where Mapopolis is suddenly running when you didn't intend it to be...

    In other words, timeouts during normal usage where you aren't moving or no longer have a GPS seem like a different issue than timing out because Mapopolis is running when you didn't intend it to be. In the former case, you mean Mapopolis to be running, but something is wrong. In the latter case, you didn't mean it to be running at all.

    - John...

    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4850S Car Mount w/ integrated SIRF Star III GPSr.

    Edited by - jgoggan on 27 avr. 2006 20:04:36
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  20:02:23  Show Profile
    Just to note it, I believe that WM5 DOES provide a way to determine if you are in "unattended" mode. The Power Management sample of the WinCE 5.0 SDK appears to demo this. But, I'm not sure if any WM5-specific stuff can be used in Mapopolis without breaking backwards compatibility. (Ris?) If it could be used, it might be a convenient way to just go "oh, I'm in unattended mode, so I don't want to do anything or override auto-shut-off"...

    Just a thought.

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4850S Car Mount w/ integrated SIRF Star III GPSr.
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  21:51:29  Show Profile
    There's been some very interesting discussion here so far about the auto shut off. Let's look at it from a perspective of the various cases...

    case 1: normal operation.
    GPS is operating normally. You are moving. You don't normally touch the device in this mode, so it wants to idle-off after the OS-configured timeout (default 3 minutes). So we have the feature to auto-disable power off, which is done through a Windows API function called IdleTimerReset() (or something like that). This works as desired.

    Case 2: automatic power on
    The case that raised this issue... the device turns itself on due to an automatic update or other scheduled event. With Mapopolis already running from the previous session, it's GPS thread is actively trying to re-establish GPS communications, and part of that involves calling IdleTimerReset() to keep the device from auto-powering off due to a lack of user interaction.

    Aside 1: If the GPS is not responding, let's consider the idea of allowing auto-power off in this case, despite the user having turned on the option to prevent this. The concern has been raised that the device would power off while the user is trying to resolve the GPS connection problem. This is unlikely to occur since one may assume that the user will be touching buttons or interacting with the PPC in order to manually reset the idle timer so that Mapopolis does not need to automatically reset the idle timer in order for the device to stay on. Assuming you have configured a reasonable timeout for your tastes in the idle timer option in the OS control panel, then you are likely to interact with the device in some way if you are actually using Mapopolis at that time in an effort to resolve a GPS connection problem, so I think it may be reasonable to skip the IdleTimerReset calls when the GPS is not responding, even if that feature is enabled by the user. We could extend the built-in idle timer by a preset 5-10 minutes to give you additional time to allow the PPC to be idle while you fuss with the GPS hardware, or consult documentation, etc. After reviewing the discussion to this point, this is most likely the solution we will take, but we will not rush into it hastily.

    Aside 2: Not only do we NOT have a reliable way to determine WHY the device has been resumed from a suspended state, but we don't even have a reliable way to determine THAT the device was ever suspended and resumed. A documented method for this exists, in which the program registers a notification event with the OS, asking to be notified when the device is resumed (powered on). This event is called .\\Notifications\\Events\\Mapopolis_Wakeup (or something like that) and you may recognize it from many bug reports a couple of months ago, because it is not universally compatible - some OEMs allow half of this notification to be deleted when suspending so that when it resumes, it TRIES to give the notification, but the Mapopolis end of it is gone, so that it gives an error something like "cannot find the event .\\Notifications\\Mapopolis_Wakeup".

    We have experimented with this for two purposes:

    A) We wanted to be able to know that the device was suspended and resumed so that we could stop and restart GPS automatically for some bluetooth drivers that stop functioning after a suspend/resume cycle. We had to resort instead to a continuous polling method.

    B) We wanted to check if dawn or dusk occured while the unit was suspended, in order to automatically switch colors instantly when the device is resumed. Again, we had to resort to a continuous polling method, leaving up to 5 minutes before the appropriate color scheme takes effect when you suspend the unit during the day and then resume it at night.

    But I digressed...

    case 3: traffic light
    Like case 1, everything has been normal, but now you are stopped at a traffic light. The suggestion has been posed to allow idle-off when not moving (allowing for up to a certain degree of satellite drift since the GPS is rarely stable at a fixed point even if you really are stopped). Any solution along those lines would have to take into account the longest possible time one might be stopped at a traffic light. I have certainly been stopped at a light for up to 10 minutes, even longer in traffic. This is likely to be longer than the OS-configured idle timeout, and we certainly don't want you to have to turn your PPC back on (or interact with your PPC at all for that matter) while you are pulling into an intersection after being stopped at a traffic light for an extended period of time, which could potentially create a dangerous situation. To handle this case, with this proposed solution (allow idle-off while not moving) we would have to extend the not-moving timeout to well beyond the longest possible time you might be stopped at the traffic light. An hour would be reasonable in this case, however, consider the next case...

    case 4: heavy traffic
    Similar to case 3, you are now stopped, but in this case you could be stopped indefinitely. I have personally be stuck in traffic for well over 2 hours, either not moving at all, or very slowly inching forward. If I'm only inching forward a very slow pace, slower even than walking, the small range of GPS movement that we would have to allow to account for satellite drift would easily fool Mapopolis into thinking I was stopped, and allow it to idle-off in a condition where I really want it to stay on (and ideally tell me a more accurate ETA based on my inching-forward speed instead of the expected 70mph... but again I digress)

    Aside 3: I can see how some users might enjoy a feature to allow idle-off when not moving. This would allow me to save battery life automatically while I am stopped or inching through traffic. Unfortunately, what this really begs for is a matching feature to automatically power back on when you start moving again, which is impossible, and we don't want you to have to touch your PPC while driving, especially in the frustrating situation of heavy traffic where you are mad enough at the world around you without added frustration from your PPC turning off on you.

    Conclusion / Solution
    We should allow the device to idle-off if the GPS is not responding for at least 10 minutes + the OS-configured idle timer (default 13 minutes total).

    Let's review this solution as it applies to all of the cases above.

    Solution effect, case 1
    Should the GPS stop responding due to a routine communication error, Mapopolis is likely to recover the connection automatically within 30-60 seconds, well before our built-in 10 minute timer expires, so we would still be calling IdleTimerReset during that time. In this case, even if your OS-configured idle timer is less than 60 seconds, the device will not idle off.

    If the connection is not automatically restored, then presumably, if the GPS hardware continues to fail to respond for close to 10 minutes, you are going to start interacting with your PPC in order to manually resolve the problem, thus manually resetting the idle timer in the OS and preventing the device from idling off. The whole time you try to resolve the connection problem, you are interacting with the device at least once per 3 minutes, so it will stay on.

    Solution effect, case 2
    This is where the solution would apply. The device turns itself on, in the absence of GPS hardware, spends more than 10 minutes failing to create a GPS connection, and then decides it will allow the idle timer to take effect. Since the idle timer is configurable in the OS, the built-in 10 minute timer in Mapopolis would not have to be additionally configurable.

    Solution effect, case 2*
    If you left your GPS hardware physically connected to the PPC, then it will get a GPS communication channel open, the solution will not work because the GPS IS responding, and your batteries will still die. But it would be simpler/easier/faster to unplug the GPS when throwing the equipment into its case, rather than remember to stop GPS and/or exit Mapopolis before turning off the PPC.

    Solution effect, cases 3 and 4
    The solution would have no effect on cases 3 or 4, which would be logically identical to case 1 if we don't care about stopped vs. moving.

    Aside 4: Given the nature of GPS Satellite Drift, it's very difficult to reliably determine whether you are stopped or moving, so I would rather not pursue any feature that relies on any kind of logic that attempts to determine if you are stopped or moving. We do have some logic like this already, used to suppress repeating voice prompts while stopped, but it has a tendency to fail from time to time when satellite drift is unusually large, and as-is also has a negative impact on using Mapopolis at intentionally slow speeds less than 5kmph, such as when walking.

    quote:
    Just to note it, I believe that WM5 DOES provide a way to determine if you are in "unattended" mode...
    Just to address this suggestion separately, there's a difference between what MS defines as "unattended" and what you naturally infer that would mean. If you're driving and Mapopolis is running on your dashboard, and you haven't touched the touch screen or pressed a button or had any user interaction with the device, then by its definition, it is "unattended". By any reasonable person's natural inference, you are certainly there attending the device, LOOKING at it, but the PPC doesn't know when it's being looked at, only when it is touched. So any question of compatibility is irrelevent here, because we actually expect Mapopolis to run in "unattended" mode under normal circumstances.
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  21:56:05  Show Profile
    Well put and explained. I, of course, like it -- because it solves my problem. :)

    I think we could re-visit other issues (auto-offing when the device is actually being used, but we just want to be smarter than "never shutting off") -- but they really are a different concern, IMO.

    Thanks, Ris!

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4850S Car Mount w/ integrated SIRF Star III GPSr.
    Go to Top of Page

    tmuka

    USA
    63 Posts

    Posted - 28 avr. 2006 :  16:53:46  Show Profile  Visit tmuka's Homepage
    oh bummer! i just realized i hadn't subscribed to the new beta thread, so i havent been around for a few weeks... looks like the progress has continued as usual, i'm looking forward to checking it out :) thanks!

    Dell Axim X50 (A05 rom), Garmin Geko 301, Mapopolis PPC 2003 Beta 4.7 RC4
    Go to Top of Page

    lamar@mapopolis.com

    USA
    2508 Posts

    Posted - 28 avr. 2006 :  22:11:19  Show Profile  Visit lamar@mapopolis.com's Homepage
    Hi, tmuka,

    Welcome back. Maybe somebody would like to actually TEST 4.71.03 and make some comments? :)

    Lamar

    "A journey is like marriage. The certain way to be wrong is to think you control it." –- John Steinbeck
    Go to Top of Page

    rfsmithsr

    USA
    39 Posts

    Posted - 28 avr. 2006 :  22:16:19  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by lamar@mapopolis.com

    Hi, tmuka,

    Welcome back. Maybe somebody would like to actually TEST 4.71.03 and make some comments? :)

    Lamar



    I'm testing but have not found anything that needs to be reported (yet).


    Ron Smith

    4.71.03 beta, North America NE Maps, hp iPAQ 5555, WM2003, 1 GB SD Storage, BlueLogger GPS
    Go to Top of Page

    AllanHvass

    Denmark
    396 Posts

    Posted - 28 avr. 2006 :  22:33:04  Show Profile
    Oh, but I tested it and reported back over in the Smartphone section yesterday already

    Everything that was reported fixed in the release notes seemed to me to be fixed correctly. It's cut my list of remaining errors into half.

    Perhaps the big news on Monday, is that ALL my bugs have been fixed Nah, it's gotta be bigger than that

    Best regards
    Allan Hvass

    Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, Holux GPSlim-236, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 28 avr. 2006 :  23:02:25  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by lamar@mapopolis.com

    Hi, tmuka,

    Welcome back. Maybe somebody would like to actually TEST 4.71.03 and make some comments? :)

    Lamar

    "A journey is like marriage. The certain way to be wrong is to think you control it." –- John Steinbeck



    I'm going for a ride later with the diagnostic version. And off to Phoenix on a business trip Sunday. It always crashes on me during business trips in unfamilar places, so I'll be ready with the log.

    Reading between Lamar's lines, I conclude that the on/off power discussion is a bit silly - no offense, but do a file, exit - or live with the consequences - don't spend valuable programming resources doing this when other bug crashes and features go begging. Have a good weekend all!

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 29 avr. 2006 :  01:52:54  Show Profile
    Ok, spoke too soon, 5 minutes into my first trip with the .03 beta, immediately around a turn and very close to the destination - my usual crash MO.

    I terminated immediately, here is the last few entries from the log. I see that error log is repeated in the debug.txt already. I'll send off the entire log.

    Hope this is helpful. Ris, from our "what panes are open during navigation" discussion a few days ago, I noted that I always use the "destination pane" too, the one that always displays the time, mileage and destination address. Maybe this is another clue.

    Regards, Joshua


    18:01:53: 6E1F3D62: OnTurnComing()
    18:01:53: 6E1F3D62: RouteGuide() - checking start time and interval, rtv.trnote:25841537, rtv.lastupdate:25859530
    18:01:53: 6E1F3D62: GPSUpdate() - done with proximity alerts
    18:01:53: 6E1F3D62: GPSMapUpdate() - special mode or popup showing
    18:01:53: 6E1F3D62: AddLogPoint() - starting
    18:01:53: 6E1F3D62: AddLogPoint() - done
    18:01:53: 6E1F3D62: GPSUpdate() - done with all tasks
    18:01:53: 6E1F3D62: GPSUpdate() - complete
    18:01:54: EE32F936: CheckForInput() - Read 406 / Total Used: 408 / Processed 0 / Unprocessed: 408 / Available 592
    18:01:54: EE32F936: GPSReadProc() - out of input, performing periodic tasks
    18:01:54: EE32F936: GPSReadProc() - gpsstatuscode: 6, m_NewData.fix: 6, m_OldData.fix: 6
    18:01:54: EE32F936: GPSReadProc() - CHANGE DETECTED
    18:01:54: EE32F936: NotifyGPSMain() - posting WM_GPSUPDATE
    18:01:54: EE32F936: GPSReadProc() - main loop starting
    18:01:54: EE32F936: CheckForInput() - beginning read loop
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: WndProc() - WM_GPSUPDATE
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: GPSUpdate() - starting
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: GPSUpdate() - have fix now
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: GPSUpdate() - speed check / registry
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: GPSUpdate() - NavUpdate
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: CIntersections::FindClosestRoutePoint() - -6188596 x 04547085
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: FindClosestRoutePoint() - success
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: RouteStep() - current step reset to 5
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: RouteGuide() - new route step
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: OnTurnDone()
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: CLEDs::StopBlinking()
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: SoundPurge() - starting
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: SoundPurge() - done
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: QSound() - 56
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: PlayNextSound() - 0
    18:01:54: 6E1F3D62: PlayNextSound() - playing file: \Windows\Alarm2.wav
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: PlayNextSound() - 1
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: PlayNextSound() - queue is empty
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: NVBRefresh() - forceshow:1, disp.nvbHeight:191, gv.hact 0x0071AAA0, gv.hmain 0x0071AAA0
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: NVBRefresh() - showing the nav pane
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: NVBCompactNav() - starting
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: ShowETA() - starting
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: ShowETA() - text 39, total 43
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: ShowETA() - returning 43
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: NVBCompactNav() - text 41, diagram 61, all 104
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: NVBCompactNav() - y 432, ytext 442
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: NVBCompactNav() - normal
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: ShowETA() - starting
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: ShowETA() - text 39, total 43
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: ShowETA() - y 493
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: ShowETA() - returning 536
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: NVBCompactNav() - done
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: NVBRefresh() - refreshing map
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: WndProcDBG() - Exception!
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
    Program version: 4.71.03 Beta
    Date and time: 2006-04-28, 18:01:55
    WM message 32770
    WM Parms 0, 0
    Code 5
    Flags 0
    Address 33197824
    XR Parms 0, 506040320
    GetLastError: 183

    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: CDialogBase::PreShow() - "Critical Error" 0x000A1D80
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: CDialogBase::PushWindow() - pushed 0x000A1D80, s_nNumWindowsOpen:1
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: CDialogBase::GetDialogObject() - set object 0x000A1D80 to use handle 0x0072D1B0
    18:01:55: 6E1F3D62: ShowTaskbar(1) called, gv.bTaskbarShowing:1
    18:02:09: 6E1F3D62: CDialogBase::DoDialogBox() - DialogBox returned 1385, GetLastError 120
    18:02:09: 6E1F3D62: CDialogBase::Destroy() - this:0x000A1D80, hDlg:0x0072D1B0

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    deichenlaub

    USA
    127 Posts

    Posted - 29 avr. 2006 :  04:23:30  Show Profile
    quote:
    There's been some very interesting discussion here so far about the auto shut off. Let's look at it from a perspective of the various cases...



    There is at least one more case that hasn't been discussed. When I am on the road and stop for lunch, I often leave my PDA on. I have had a lot of problems over the years with program bugs, receivers that don't want to get a fix, etc. If I spend a little more time at my stop than intended, I might want to start driving right away. I don't care about the battery. I use a car charger, the PDA can easily ride through my stop, no matter how long it is.

    The bottom line is that for whatevermy reasons, I want the PDA to be on and running when I come back to the car. "Disable power off" means exactly that. My vote is that these corner cases have to be options, with the default value to have the expected behavior. Those who care can find the option and use it.


    HP iPAQ 2490 / WM5 / Mapopolis / GlobalSAT BC-337 (Holux CF GPS)
    Go to Top of Page

    SirElmo

    11 Posts

    Posted - 29 avr. 2006 :  05:51:09  Show Profile
    Found a problem with map selections. I create maplet files from GPX and then upload them to my PDA. In order for the new maplet to show up on the choose map screen, I have to do a refresh. In past versions, the maps that I had already selected stayed selected. In .01 and .03, when I do a refresh, it deselects the maps that were already selected.
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 29 avr. 2006 :  18:14:05  Show Profile
    I have more to say about this, but little time, so I will cut to one simple observation...

    Please do not confuse the idea of "Auto-disable power off always" with the actual current behavior "Auto-disable power off while GPS is running" The checkbox for this option is listed under GPS settings, as opposed to General Program settings, for a reason: it is tied to GPS. In light of this observation, and in light of the relatively new situation where Mapopolis will continue running GPS in a "Not Responding" status, we have a question to answer:

    Does "Not Responding" qualify as "Running" for the purposes of disabling auto-power off?
    Go to Top of Page

    deichenlaub

    USA
    127 Posts

    Posted - 29 avr. 2006 :  19:09:01  Show Profile
    quote:
    Does "Not Responding" qualify as "Running" for the purposes of disabling auto-power off?
    Go to Top of Page


    Ris, that's a good point. If the GPS is not responding, I cannot think of any situation in which it is useful to keep the PDA power on.

    HP iPAQ 2490 / WM5 / Mapopolis / GlobalSAT BC-337 (Holux CF GPS)
    Go to Top of Page

    rfsmithsr

    USA
    39 Posts

    Posted - 29 avr. 2006 :  21:07:11  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris

    Does "Not Responding" qualify as "Running" for the purposes of disabling auto-power off?



    Not Responding is Not Running to me. Shut it down.

    Ron Smith

    4.71.03 beta, North America NE Maps, hp iPAQ 5555, WM2003, 1 GB SD Storage, BlueLogger GPS

    Edited by - rfsmithsr on 29 avr. 2006 21:09:28
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 29 avr. 2006 :  22:02:47  Show Profile
    Hi Joshua,

    Thanks for the debug info. It gives me some ideas, but I need to see the complete debug.txt log to review the complete operation. Please email it to support if you haven't done so already. (I'd also rather not clutter the forum with extensive debug info)

    quote:
    Found a problem with map selections. I create maplet files from GPX and then upload them to my PDA. In order for the new maplet to show up on the choose map screen, I have to do a refresh. In past versions, the maps that I had already selected stayed selected. In .01 and .03, when I do a refresh, it deselects the maps that were already selected.
    I can definitely see how that's a bug, thanks for pointing that out. We'll see what we can do...
    Go to Top of Page

    joshua362

    USA
    84 Posts

    Posted - 29 avr. 2006 :  22:54:47  Show Profile
    Ris, already send last night, only about 1 meg. I put joshua362 in the subject line so you know its from me. And I definately agree about the clutter, my bad, I was hoping that maybe the snippet at the very end was enough.

    Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 30 avr. 2006 :  00:06:48  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by rfsmithsrNot Responding is Not Running to me. Shut it down.


    Agreed. Especially since the behavior now is to not keep it running if there is no GPS -- losing GPS and not getting it back should also not disable the auto-shutdown of the device. This would solve the problem mentioned when I first brought it up -- and really shouldn't change much for any other real situations.

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4850S Car Mount w/ integrated SIRF Star III GPSr.
    Go to Top of Page

    thepcdoctorca

    Canada
    151 Posts

    Posted - 01 mai 2006 :  22:03:49  Show Profile  Visit thepcdoctorca's Homepage
    I sometimes have Mapopolis running with no GPS, looking at the area surrounding a destination that I know hw to get to the general area. I hate any application to try to make a decision as to whether I'm using it or not.

    We're talking about adding additional code to apply a technological fix to a human behaviour problem. Tools>Exit.

    I know it's forgotten sometimes. But do we want more code, mre conditions to go through to try to fix a sometimes problem?

    We already have a couple of options (colour change and set clock), that have taken programming time that could have been used improving the user interface. A finger friendly soft menu would be nice, could have mapped a toggle colour button to it. The setting of the clock does not work on a number of devices and most PPC are synced to a PC at some point.

    Dell Axim X5 400 A05 WM2003 Holux GPS Mapopolis 4.7x

    Edited by - thepcdoctorca on 01 mai 2006 22:08:39
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 01 mai 2006 :  22:09:35  Show Profile
    quote:
    Originally posted by thepcdoctorca

    I sometimes have Mapopolis running with no GPS, looking at the area surrounding a destination that I know hw to get to the general area. I hate any application to try to make a decision as to whether I'm using it or not.


    And I hate to not allow technology to help out because of a really rare exception. I don't think most people start up Mapopolis without a GPS and then leave it sit for an hour without being touched.

    I can see your point -- but I guess I don't see the situation where you'd be doing that for so long that it would actually trigger a shut-off.

    quote:
    We're talking about adding additional code to apply a technological fix to a human behaviour problem. Tools>Exit.


    Yes and no. We're also talking about solving a problem with the potential to drain your PDA battery to the point of not being able to use it the next day. If we have the power to resolve that -- even at the expensive of a few oddities such as your case -- then it seems worth doing.

    What if, before it shut off, it just popped up a box asking if you wanted to stay on (and then auto-offing if you didn't respond, of course)? Maybe even a "don't ask me again" option to force it to stay on if you really, really wanted to look at an unchanged Mapopolis screen for a few hours without ever touching your PDA...

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4850S Car Mount w/ integrated SIRF Star III GPSr.
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 01 mai 2006 :  22:11:56  Show Profile
    Also, based on what Ris said above -- wouldn't Mapopolis CURRENTLY still allow auto-shutoff in thepcdoctorca's case?? We're talking about making a change where the GPS was there and then is gone, right? Currently, if the GPS was never there, then it still does auto-shutoff, right? Isn't that what Ris just explained? And, if so, then the situation that thepcdoctorca mentioned above already DOES still allow auto-shut-off... In other words, Mapopolis won't do what he wants/expects as it is now.

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4850S Car Mount w/ integrated SIRF Star III GPSr.
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 01 mai 2006 :  23:51:07  Show Profile
    quote:
    Does "Not Responding" qualify as "Running" for the purposes of disabling auto-power off?
    We appreciate all of your insightful comments on this matter. Having reviewed the comments to this point, we have decided that the final answer to this question is "No" and the option to disable auto-power off will NOT be applied in this case.

    NOTE: It should be possible to use the option to "Keep Backlight On When: ALWAYS" in order to keep the device powered in the absence of a functioning GPS connection, if so desired.

    If possible, I'd like to put an end to this dicussion now that the decision has been made.



    Moving on...

    I promised an exciting announcement coming on Monday... which is today... so the time has arrived to announce...

    <-- da da da da Trumpets -->

    Mapopolis will be producing a NavCard product for Windows Mobile platforms!

    This product will be a 2GB SD Card with Mapopolis Navigator and the latest maps pre-installed and ready to go as an "out of the box" solution. The goal of this project will be to produce a product that we can sell out of a box, on a shelf, in a "brick and mortar" store, to ween off of reliance on web-based downloads and setup/installation issues.

    In light of this project, we will be working over the coming weeks on features related to:
    1) Simplifying map selection and installation issues
    2) Improving the interface for "finger friendly" operation

    It is my sincere hope that new features and enhancements that we make for the purpose of the NavCard will also be made available to non-NavCard ("download") users but it is unclear at this time whether the Navigator software will have to be branched for different NavCard and Download versions.

    Mapopolis already offers such a product for the Palm platform. Anyone with experience with the Palm NavCard may be aware of the different map data format that we use for that product - large regional maps, rather than individual small county maps. We will NOT (initially) be switching to that paradigm for the WM NavCard product, which will continue to use the same county maps with which you are already familiar. However, we are looking into the least painful way to make the transition to regional maps on the Windows Mobile platforms, and we intend to move in that direction if the WM NavCard is a success.

    The earliest demo and feesibility tests for the WM NavCard are already complete, but requires some additional fine-tuning before we will be ready to present it to you, the beta testing community, for testing and feedback.

    We will release more news about this exciting new project later this week when we decide how we are going to operate our beta testing program, and have a better idea about a date when the first pre-release/beta will become available.
    Go to Top of Page

    Lizard_weasel

    USA
    892 Posts

    Posted - 02 mai 2006 :  00:03:18  Show Profile
    Wonderful news Ris, this opens up a whole new customer base to you, mass marketing through the big chains and such. This could very well bring Mapopolis onto an entirely new level.

    Axim x50v, A05 ROM/Globalsat BT-338 Bluetooth GPS/2gb PNY SD card/2gb Kingston CF card/Mapopolis 4.7RC4 with NE maps.
    Go to Top of Page

    jgoggan

    USA
    330 Posts

    Posted - 02 mai 2006 :  03:33:59  Show Profile
    First: Sounds good on the auto-power-off stuff, Ris. Thanks!

    Second, new issue:

    Today, I wanted to find an address (1308 Belnap, to be precise). I used the Find->Address feature. Belnap came up fine, but 1308 was not valid (which is fairly common for the maps in our area -- the data seems to have the road going from 1200-1299 and then 1400-1499 with no 13xx addresses). No big deal, I just had it find the road on the map so that I could see it. When it does this, it still puts a little house in the center of the road. I tapped on it and it says "On Belnap." It allowed me to add it to my Favorites -- which I did.

    However, at that point, I couldn't do anything with that Favorite! If I hit my hardware button for "route to Favorite" and then tapped "On Belnap", the app simply did nothing. If I tapped the icon to bring up the favorites and then tapped "On Belnap", it gave an error that it could not go to that favorite. (I do not have the exact error message handy right now -- let me know if it isn't easily reproducible.)

    Basically, it allows me to create an unusable Favorite. I think, in the past, it used to tell me that it couldn't add just "On Belnap" as a Favorite. Now it allows it, but can't do anything with it. Optimally, I'd like to be able to use it normally -- to both jump to that point and/or to have it route me to that road.

    - John...


    ---
    Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4850S Car Mount w/ integrated SIRF Star III GPSr.
    Go to Top of Page

    Ris

    USA
    679 Posts

    Posted - 02 mai 2006 :  04:45:42  Show Profile
    Hi John, it sounds like you have discovered a new variant of the long-standing "broken favorites" bug. The error message is something like "cannot find original map for favorite" right?

    Let me explain a little bit about how favorites work. Inside the program, a favorite is composed of 3 things:
    1) a name
    2) a type (intersection, street address, or landmark)
    3) a reference point

    The important thing is part 3: the reference point. This is supposed to indicate where the location can be found, and in which map file.

    Having looked into this many times, what I can say is that the reference data becomes broken so that it no longer matches the map files. It's mysterious because the reference data is unchanged, and the map files are unchanged, so SOMETHING in between them has caused the reference to fail to match up with the original map. Yet there's not really anything there in between the two entities which could create this mismatch. Hence the mystery.

    The way the reference is stored and used varies depending on the type of favorite (point 2). So far, I have only heard of this in relation to Landmark-type favorites. You have added the case where an address-type favorite fails, most likely because it is an "On Street" address without a house number in the map data for that road segment. This is hopefully a different case (due to a different underlying problem) with a hopefully obvious solution that we can actually fix, and we will definitely look into it. The landmark-type failure has proven to be more mysterious. But perhaps when looking at this new case, we will find some clue to the old case.
    Go to Top of Page

    ruairip

    United Kingdom
    8 Posts

    Posted - 02 mai 2006 :  14:16:34  Show Profile  Visit ruairip's Homepage
    quote:
    Originally posted by Ris

    [quote]Moving on...

    I promised an exciting announcement coming on Monday... which is today... so the time has arrived to announce...

    <-- da da da da Trumpets -->




    Hi Ris

    Excellent announcement.

    I would suggest that, in particular for Europe, you need to look at updating the map data as well, no matter how good the map viewer, packaging and distribution is you will dissapoint users as soon as they realise how out-of-date the European maps are.

    Keep up the good work.

    Ruairi

    HP iPAQ hw6515c & HP iPAQ hx4700 with TomTom BT GPS Receiver
    Mapopolis 4.71.03
    Go to Top of Page
    Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
    Next Page
     Forum Locked
     Printer Friendly
    Jump To:
    GpsPasSion Forums © 2002-2015_GpsPasSion/Manzanite Go To Top Of Page
    This page was generated in 5,95 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05