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 SPVC500 / 4.54 : highway in switzerland
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M Duff

Canada
205 Posts

Posted - 03 oct. 2005 :  01:44:20  Show Profile
This is how wars get started Jake!

"I know you think you know what your heard me say but I am not sure that what you thought you heard was actually what I meant." Somebody once told me that.

Correct me if I am wrong: Your point is that there must not be any indication on the underlying map to give Mapopolis something to report. You may be right but Allan says that another program using NavTeq maps does report the highway split.

Allan has corrected my interpretation, wherein I was referring to a highway exit ramp, by emphasizing that there is no ramp at the point to which he is referring. (Curiously the MapPoint image he attached appears to show an exit ramp which adds to the confusion.) The entire highway splits, one part becoming another named road and the other, I presume, carries on with the original identifier (or possibly another identification but it really does not matter). The point is that Mapopolis does not direct the driver onto the correct road at this junction.

The information must be on the map data that Mapopolis uses because the two roads have different IDs. Therefore he wants to know why Mapopolis does not seem to recognize and report this division of the road. He considers it to be a bug and it sounds like he is right. There is something either being interpreted incorrectly by Mapopolis or something that is interfering with Mapopolis reading and/or reporting the information on the map.

Toshiba e805 - Spb Pocket Plus2 - Holux GM270 - Franson GPS Gate - Mapopolis V4.6 final 1 , NC maps & Verbosity Optns - MS S&T 2004 - Memory-Map Navigator w/E-Topo maps

Edited by - M Duff on 03 oct. 2005 01:48:38
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AllanHvass

Denmark
396 Posts

Posted - 03 oct. 2005 :  09:08:25  Show Profile
Jake Rich: Sorry if I got a bit carried away. But it felt to me like you were more focused on not getting even more "continue" prompts (which I know you are getting too many of in other cases), rather than solving a different problem.

So to address both what M Duff asks for, and what DCrochet has asked for previously, namely what specific road segments are present in the underlying NavTeq data, and how are they named?

First, here's an overview map of the highway split.

So lets zoom in and see the road segment before the split. Notice, that it does end at the split, just as expected.

So the road names before the split is "E20/E47/Køge Bugt Motorvejen/E55". All together four different names...

Then lets look at the right (north) part of the split.

So that one has the names of "E47/E55/Sydmotorvejen/To Gedser". Another four different names... But two of them are the same as the highway names before the split.

The lets look at the left (south) part of the split.

That one has "only" two names "E20/Sydmotorvejen". One of them is also one of the names of the highway before the split.

So my theory is, that Mapopolis gets confused because both legs in the split has a name, that is a continuation of one of the names for the highway before the split, and therefore don't give any directions (after all, it's still the same highway it thinks...). But this is wrong. When it's not all the same names as before the split, and there's more than one direction to take, Mapopolis should not think that it's just a continuation, and possibly even suppress a "Continue" prompt. It needs to give a prompt, no matter whether you need to take the left or right leg.

Best regards
Allan Hvass

Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit
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dcrochet

USA
1044 Posts

Posted - 04 oct. 2005 :  01:47:09  Show Profile
Thank you so much Allen for posting this specific example with detailed screen-shots. This is precisely what I've seen in the case of *highway splits*. Now we need some *Continue* prompt examples in order to present Mapopolis with a meaningful WISHLIST item.

First, we must realize that Mapopolis does not currently see what we see in these screen shots. Mapopolis does not analyze additional road segments beyond the underlying, route-related segments. Furthermore, it has been my experience that Mapopolis does not analyze the road name beyond the *primary* name at the top of the list. <We need some Ris inputs here>

So if you're route takes you across segments with the same, exact, road name in the primary field, it doesn't matter how complex the intersection involved, there is no turn-prompt given. However, if the *primary* road name changes by so much as a letter or punctuation, Mapopolis is all too happy to analyze the turn involved and issue a "continue" prompt or appropriate "Turn" prompt as the case may be.

So what's the solution? I'm certainly going to have to give this some thought, because it may involve asking Mapopolis to analyze multiple road name fields, AND even analyze additional, nearby segments in some way. The latter could get rather complex because it will depend upon the angle of the additional segments in most cases, so lets hope the analysis doesn't need to go that far.

I haven't read this thread thoroughly at this point, but when I do I suspect I will share JakeRich's concern for making the "Continue" prompts worse if we simply concentrate on the "highway/ramp split" issue. In other words, I can see an easy solution if we ignore the problems it may cause with "Continue" prompts. On the other hand, I can see an easy fix for "Continue" prompts that will make Mapopolis even more silent at "highway splits." So we're going to have to put our heads together on this one!


Axim X5 400 A04, PPC2002, Mapopolis 4.6x (NE) routing technique, PocketXTrack CF GPS
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AllanHvass

Denmark
396 Posts

Posted - 04 oct. 2005 :  10:55:21  Show Profile
Thanks for great input DCrochet!

Assume road Segment S1 with name(s) "N1" ends and splits into two segment S2 with name(s) "N2" and segment S3 with name(s) "N3". Assume the route continues on S2. Then how about this logic:

Rule 1: Always have the routing engine spit out direction information if at the end of segment S1 there's more than one choice of direction (S2 and S3)

UNLESS

Rule 2: Some of the names in N1 is contained in N2 (possibly N1==N2) and none of the names in N1 is contained in N3


Notice that rule 2 does require the routing engine to also look at the names for segments not chosen, so it does require some computing. It should however lower the "sensitivity" to changes in some of the road names for a specific route segment, as long as just one of the names are carried forward to the next segment, so it may actually also decrease annoying continue prompts.

Obviously, if one road segment S1 ends and NONE of it's names are carried forward to any of the segments S2 and S3, it's obvious that a direction must be spewed out by the engine, even if you're just continuing straight onto a completely new road. This would typically happen at a crossing where the current road ends, and you could typically have three choices: left, straight or right. I think it in that case would be appropriate also to say e.g. "continue straight onto Main Street" when your current e.g. "Elm Street" ends. Obviously, this would not happen, if one of the other names, e.g. the road number is unchanged, e.g. you continues on Interstate 75.

Best regards
Allan Hvass

Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit

Edited by - AllanHvass on 04 oct. 2005 10:58:29
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Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 25 oct. 2005 :  06:03:59  Show Profile
I'm just chiming in to say that I've read this and am mulling it over. I think Allan has summed up the best solution. Thanks for defining those rules. As for implementing it, I can't give an estimate about when you can expect to see a solution in place in the software, but it's on the list.

Best Regards,
Ris

Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
Mapopolis.com Inc

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SPVito

Denmark
9 Posts

Posted - 28 oct. 2005 :  23:04:34  Show Profile
I found some news related to this topic....All danish highway-junctions have now been given individual names. This is going to be implemented in several european countries...sorry, only for the danish readers:

http://www.vejsektoren.dk/wimpnews.asp?page=document&objno=140217

For an overview of names, see this link:

http://www.vejsektoren.dk/hent/motorvejskryds_rev3_20050614.pdf

Regards;
Erik

Edited by - SPVito on 29 oct. 2005 12:25:39
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lamar@mapopolis.com

USA
2508 Posts

Posted - 30 oct. 2005 :  20:47:16  Show Profile  Visit lamar@mapopolis.com's Homepage
Hi, Erik,

Is this going to be EU-wide or just Denmark and some other Scandanavian countries? What timeline do they give for implementing this?

We don't even have anything like this in US yet, and I think it's a great idea.

Lamar

History is made at night. Character is what you are in the dark.
Lord John Whorfin
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SPVito

Denmark
9 Posts

Posted - 30 oct. 2005 :  23:51:52  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by lamar@mapopolis.com

Hi, Erik,

Is this going to be EU-wide or just Denmark and some other Scandanavian countries? What timeline do they give for implementing this?

We don't even have anything like this in US yet, and I think it's a great idea.

Lamar

History is made at night. Character is what you are in the dark.
Lord John Whorfin


Hi Lamar

From the article I understood that the naming of the danish junctions is going to be implemented right now. This type of naming has already been implemented in Germany, and the Danish system follows the German one. The article also speaks about that Norway, Sweeden and "several other countries in europe" is going to have the same system (but nothing about when this will happen).

Regards;
Erik

Edited by - SPVito on 30 oct. 2005 23:52:43
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GrandSapin1673

12 Posts

Posted - 17 janv. 2006 :  19:43:03  Show Profile
Hello all and special thanks to AllanHvass for fighting for my topics

Great to see it went to a change request, but in the rule definition, I do not see how we will have keep rigth or keep left.

Any solution to this part of the question?
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