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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 20 mars 2005 :  16:36:53  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
UPDATED20101201
SiRFdemo for PCs (and PocketPCs*)
Advanced configuration for SiRF based GPS receivers!



>> SORRY THE PICTURES HAVE BEEN LOST
EXPLANATIONS SHOULD STAND BY THEMSELVES
IF NOT FEEL FREE TO ASK ANY QUESTIONS <<


Before proceeding, download the latest version of SiRFdemo
PC Version (advanced) : v3.87 - PPC Version (basic): v1.16



INDEX

  1. Introduction
  2. Configuration
  3. Navigation Parameters
  4. Configuring 'Static Navigation'
  5. Back to NMEA
  6. Links of interest


1. INTRODUCTION



Why use SiRFdemo ?
  1. To take a peek at the advanced settings of your GPS receiver and to see how it was set in the factory, or modify some of these settings

  2. Your GPS is behaving oddly and you want to reset it to factory defaults

  3. You want to verify the revision of the Firmware loaded on your GPS receiver - (insight on SiRF FW naming)

<!> Beware <!>
While using this software will normally not damage your receiver, please realize that some actions not covered in this tutorial might misconfigure your receiver and likely void your warranty. In any case, GpsPasSion will not be held responsible if your GPS receiver stops responding from the use of this software



2. CONFIGURATION


  1. To use SiRFdemo you need a PC or a laptop and a way to connect your GPS receiver. For a compact flash GPS, you can use a PCMCIA/CF adapter, for a wired GPS, a DB9 serial port or USB via a USB/DB9 adapter and of course a Bluetooth GPS receiver with built-in BT or a dongle
  2. You need to identify the correct COM port used by your GPS. It will be COM1 for a serial GPS generally and for a Bluetooth GPS, a right click on the connection will show you the port
  3. Launch SiRFdemo - choose the correct COM port and select 4,800 (or 38,400 for a Bluetooth GPS) (fig 1)
  4. SiRFdemo only provides detailed information in SiRF mode so do \Action\Switch to SiRF (fig 2) and you will see the various windows "light up"(fig 3)


Fig.1 Fig.2 Fig.3



3. NAVIGATION PARAMETERS


A modern GPS receiver is a full blown "computer" equipped with a CPU - baseband chip (ARM), an RF chip (signal processing), ROM (rewritable flash) and RAM - but unlike a "normal" computer it is highly specialized and has been programmed accordingly. Some of these parameters are visible as the "Navigation Parameters"; to make them appear in the "Response View" window, do \Poll\Navigaton Parameters. Let's take a brief look at them :


Fig.4 Fig.5


  1. Operating Mode (Degraded/Altitude Hold/Dead Reckoning) : défines the operating mode when optimal reception (4+ satellites) is no longer available
  2. Track Smoothing : wrill smoothen the track to remove the "jumps" resulting from the natural "inaccuracy" of the GPS system (10/15 meters) - disabled by default
  3. Static Navigation : will "freeze" the position at very low speed to cancel out the drifting resulting from the natura "inaccuray" of GPS - should be disabled for pedestrian use - see below for details
  4. DOP : filtering based on the quality of reception
  5. DGPS : controls the activation of SBAS (WAAS in the US and EGNOS in Europe) - since SA (Selective Availability) was removed in May 2000, mainly useful to check the integrity of the GPS signal for critical use in planes and in shipts - available on SiRFstar III with FW 3.1 and above
  6. Power : to configure power saving trickle modes

Note : To show the firmware version loaded in your GPS in the top window, do \Poll\SW Version - GSW3.0...with the SiRFIII Globalsat BT-338 GPS I was using.


4. STATIC NAVIGATION


While most settings are best left untouched unless you want to experiment (always risky !), "Static Navigation" is one that should be looked at closely especially with the arrival of the new SiRFstarIII based receivers, as these ultra-powerful receivers take GPS reception to a new level and can work with very weak signals but when that happens, accuracy can be impacted. Observations over a 24 hour period show that with good signals, 95% of the positions reported by the GPS will be within a 15 meter radius, while with weak signals, 95% of the positions will be within a radius of 50 meters.

Current road navigation software is designed for GPS receivers that only operate with good signals so accuracy will be in the 15 meter area. Such software will "snap" the position to the closest road so in a dense urban area, with degraded accuracy it's going to be easy to make the wrong decision and produce "uncosmetic" results and possibly force a trip recalculation.

Instead of redesigning navigation software to take this account (one could imagine some type of dynamic filtering based on DOP) and risk increasing the processing load on the PDA and hurt user experience, the easy fix is to implement this fix directly by having GPS manufacturers activate "Static Navigation" by default and therefore freeze the position using some complex algorithms mainly speed dependent. The problem with this is that this will considerably hurt low speed pedestrian use, with the speed staying on "0" and 50 meter jumps (update threshhold). If you want to use your GPS receiver outside your car, you'll need to disable SN, this is how to do it :


Fig.6 Fig.7


  1. \Navigation\Static Navigation\ (fig. 6)
  2. Click on "Disable" then SEND (fig. 7)
  3. Verify that the change has been recorded by the GPS by calling the Navigation Parameters
  4. Please note that the default setting will return with a "factory reset" command or when the battery runs out
  5. Analyzing: As you can see in 9a, representing a walk with silumtaneaous logging, the impact of SN on a SiRFstarIII GPS is pretty significant, better accuracy, better distance measurement, with Xtrac 2 there is no notable impact and its status as a "non-pedestrian" friendly GPS remains.


BEFORE - AFTER - On the Field

Fig.8 Fig.9 Fig.9a



5. BACK TO NMEA


NMEA being the universal GPS language, best not to forget to return to that mode after looking up the advanced settings and possibly modifying them. There are two ways to proceed:
  1. To keep your settings : \Action\Switch to NMEA Protocol\ select 4,800 then Send (fig. 10 et 11)
  2. To set your GPS back to its factory settings : \Action\Initialize Data Source\Factory Reset then Send (fig. 12 et 13)


Fig.10 Fig.11

Fig.12 Fig.13



6. USEFUL LINKS


  1. "Technical Forums" - >>HERE<<


* PocketPC owners can also try this application that I have found to work as well although not with WM2003SE. For WM2003SE you can use this program to toggle SN and also or CE Monitor and GPSTweak for SBAS settings - 02/2006 : here is a new "tweaker", SiRFtech.

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bluetoothwantabe

28 Posts

Posted - 26 mars 2005 :  08:35:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
just want to report that this software may not 100% compatible with fountna/belkin bluetooth gps(xtrac2). everything works as expected up to step 5. Yes, i did select 4800 for baud rate. 5a results in repeated error message "comm: unknown char: 80" in "Error View", i have to reset the device by taking the battery out to make it function agains. On the other hand, 5b works just fine. This is annoying as i would like to use it for geocaching and that "static naviagtion" feature simply kills it.

Edited by - bluetoothwantabe on 26 mars 2005 08:38:54
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 26 mars 2005 :  11:28:16  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good point, try switching back to NMEA/38,400 first as I think it doesn't like the simultaneous protocol/speed switch - switching to SiRF isn't a problem is it in 2.4 ? If it works please report back on the impact for geocaching, as I'm not positive it will help a lot going by the testing I did above.

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Leif

Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 26 mars 2005 :  23:07:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I found some static navigation info in SiRF's own faq.

http://www.sirf.com/techlibrary/FAQs/FAQs.html

SiRFStarII Software

93. Explain the static navigation parameters.

Since SA was turned off, we now disable static navigation as our default, and we recommend that you do also. When it is enabled, if velocity is below 1.2 m/s for 3 seconds we will freeze the position, and leave them frozen until velocity exceeds 1.4 m/s (so there is a bit of hysteresis in the solution).

123. What criteria are used to enable and disable the static navigation filter?

Static navigation is a mode designed for motor vehicles, which causes the position to become pinned at one location when velocity is determined to be low enough. This is designed to make navigation systems operate more reasonably when the GPS Selective Availability (SA) signal degradation is turned on. When the navigation software determines that the vehicle velocity is less than 1.2 m/s for 3 seconds, the position is pinned to its current position. It remains pinned until either velocity is detected above 1.4 m/s, or position is computed to be 200 m from the pinned location.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 26 mars 2005 :  23:57:07  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Interesting find, although this seems to date a bit given the refrence to SA I wonder if it wouldn't apply to SiRFtarI in any case the principle is still there and has been revisited with SiRF working with much lower signal than previous generations.

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 29 mars 2005 :  19:38:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Two responses for this forum: with Bluetooth GPS units, often the Bluetooth modem only handles 1 baud rate. So to switch protocol, be sure to specify the same baud rate as used in the current protocol.

For Static Navigation, there are different limits depending on the particular software version. Some freeze at 1.2 m/s and unfreeze at about 1.4 m/s or 200 m movement; others freeze at 0.8 m/s and unfreeze at about 9.6 m/s or 50 m movement. Other limits may exist in some other builds.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 29 mars 2005 :  19:50:02  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the forums, Carl !
1. Yes I meant to adjust the 4,800 to 38,400 upon connection as this seems to be the "natural" baudrate of many Bluetooh GPS receivers and happens to be the baudrate chosen by SiRFdemo with "Switch to SiRF" so that prevents the simultaneous baudrate/protocol switching that BT GPS receivers don't like.

2. Are you referring to SiRFIII software versions or SiRF chipsets in general? Is there a way of finding out from within SiRfdemo? 9.6m/s seems pretty high in the second setup, that's about 30kph, I don't believe I've ever seen that type of "drifting speed" even when the GPS is working with very low signal?

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 29 mars 2005 :  21:28:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry for a typo -- I meant 0.96. The actual value for turn off based on velocity is the square root of 1.2 times the turn-on velocity squared. So if turn on is 0.8 m/s, then turn off is sqrt(0.8 * 0.8 * 1.2) = 0.876, or closer to 0.9. For 1.2 m/s turn on, that works out to 1.314 m/s.

This formula works in all SS2 (including Xtrac) and SS3 code. The specific values used depend on the individual code. Within any one platform (SS2, SS3, Xtrac) there can be multiple settings depending on the version and on individual customer builds.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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bluetoothwantabe

28 Posts

Posted - 30 mars 2005 :  06:28:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i got it working! it appears that the bluetooth gps i have(belkin, rebadged fouturna clipon) is only capable of switching mode at 38400. So what i had to do was using baud rate 38400 in both step 2.3 and 5a. It’s interesting that it actually partially works under 4800. Maybe it has a compatibility mode built-in as most software’s use/require 4800 by default? I just looked up the definition of "Baud Rate", my understanding is that bigger number indicates greater potential transmission capability(aka. bandwidth), right?

Anyhow, I am so happy!

BTW, i just notice one fascinating message in the "Debug View" during my switch from SiRF to NMEA: "$PSRFTXT,Baud rate: 38400 System clock:24.553Mhz*45"
Is the second part the actual speed of the processor inside my gps? and does "*45" part mean i should multiple 45 to 24.553 to get the overall speed or does it mean something completely different?

Edited by - bluetoothwantabe on 30 mars 2005 06:32:20
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 30 mars 2005 :  11:13:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Glad to hear you got it working. No doubt that modem only works at 38400.

Baud rate is really the rate of bit transitions on the serial data link. Since each byte of data adds a start and stop bit, it is 10 bits long, and 38400 baud is 3840 bytes per second. Faster bit rates transfer more bytes per second, i.e., greater bandwidth.

That text line you saw is called a proprietary message. All NMEA messages begin with $. The P means a proprietary message, SRF is the 3-character code assigned by NMEA to SiRF. The text that follows is all free-form under NMEA, and can be whatever we want it to be. In this case it is telling you your serial port baud rate and the CPU clock speed. The *45 is the checksum (exclusive OR of all characters after the $ and before the *).

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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Leif

Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 30 mars 2005 :  20:42:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I would also like to disable static navigation on my GPS. Problem is that I have a Yakumo delta 300 GPS (rebadged Mitac Mio 168) PocketPC with integrated GPS. Firmware 2.4.12.09-XMitac-C4PROD2.0 0000003729. The only GPS interface is internal to PocketPC COM2.

Is there a version of the SiRFXTracDemo PocketPC program, that used to be available for download from SiRF, that is updated to change the static navigation setting?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 30 mars 2005 :  20:48:35  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You need to get access from a PC so I can't think of a way to change that setting, such tools don't exist for PocketPCs, besides you can see in the example above that Xtrac v2 doesn't seem to benefit much from SN disabling.

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 31 mars 2005 :  05:55:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually there is a product called SiRFDemoPPC that provides at least some of the features of SiRFDemo for the Pocket PC environment. Contact your SiRF rep to request a copy. Unfortunately I don't have a PPC platform to use to see if the feature you want is there, and the manual for it is not yet published. You'll need to experiment.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 31 mars 2005 :  09:58:32  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, but last I checked (version 1.02) SiRFdemoPPC that feature wasn't there unfortunately and I haven't seen it available for public download so far.

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Leif

Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2005 :  22:48:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion


you can see in the example above that Xtrac v2 doesn't seem to benefit much from SN disabling.



How fast were you moving when doing the test?

The speed treshholds 0.8 to 1.4 m/s mentioned by the FAQ and Carl is in the range 2.9 to 5.0 km/h. You could say slow to fast walking speed. Which treshhold is actually used in the unit you tested or my Yakumo is unknown.

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2005 :  23:22:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Your Yakumo software by default has static navigation disabled.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2005 :  23:22:12  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Right, I was walking slowly, my point is that in these simultaneous recordings SiRFIII benefits from SN being disabled, not XT2 that produces pretty poor results regardless of SN.

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 06 avr. 2005 :  23:36:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Xtrac 2.1 software was recently released, and specifically addresses the dynamics issues. I believe testing has shown a significant improvement.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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tthomas

3 Posts

Posted - 08 avr. 2005 :  21:20:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I received my new SIRF III Global Sat GPS.

I’m running SIRF demo 3.61

Excuse my ignorance but I was under the understanding that this was a 20 channel GPS.

SIRF demo 3.61 appears to track a max satellite count of 12 not 20. Am I talking apples and oranges?

If so can someone explain the difference between a channel and a sat.

Thanks
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 08 avr. 2005 :  21:55:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thomas,
SiRFstarIII does have the ability to track up to 22 satellites at once. However, with the current constellation there will be more than 12 satellites visible much less than 0.01 % of the time, so the current implementation of the receiver's software only supports up to 12 satellites at once.

You asked an interesting question about the difference between a satellite and a channel. A channel typically represents a subdivision of the hardware dedicated to tracking a satellite, but that definition goes away in SiRFstarIII. In reality, SiRFstarIII has no channels. Rather it has a tracking engine that tracks whatever it is told to track at any given instant. Most receivers track in real time, meaning as the stream of 1s and 0s come in from the RF section, the hardware assigned to track a satellite compares that incoming stream with another stream created inside the receiver and adjusted to match what that satellite should be sending. When the streams match sufficiently, we have a track. SiRFstarIII operates in faster than real time, much faster in fact. But of course that means it must work in the past. It captures a snapshot of the streams of 1s and 0s in a buffer. When the buffer is full the receiving hardware switches to another buffer to collect the next samples while the tracking hardware starts processing the filled buffer. That tracking hardware repeatedly processes the buffer for each satellite it is tracking -- if it is tracking 8 satellites it processes the buffer 8 times, once for each satellite. The tracking hardware is fast enough that it could process the buffer up to 22 times before the other buffer was full and the receiving hardware would need to switch and start filling this buffer again.

Since there are only enough satellites visible at one time to justify 12 "channels" (areas in memory to collect processing results, really), and since currently defined SiRF messages only support 12 satellites, SiRF chose at this time to only implement 12 parallel tracks. When circumstances justify it, we will expand things. Note also, that as processes improve so that we could speed up the chip, that 22 satellite limit will also go up.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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Madman_K

4 Posts

Posted - 16 avr. 2005 :  11:08:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got a BT338.

I was looking with SirfDemo at the SN.
It was allready disabled (factory setting)

SW-version GSW3.0.2-...
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telocat

45 Posts

Posted - 19 avr. 2005 :  21:21:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I couldn't get SIRFdemo working correctly with my Xtrac v1 GPS (Fortuna Pocket Xtrack). Seemed to connect OK, but all I got were error messages.

Can this tutorial in any way be applied to Xtrac v1?
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 19 avr. 2005 :  23:12:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If the error messages were of the form: Comm: CE_FRAME or Comm: CE_BREAK then you likely have a baud rate mismatch between SiRFDemo and your receiver. You have two choices: manually try each baud rate available (common ones used are 4800, 38400 and 57600, but others are extant), or go to the Action menu and select "Synchronize Protocol and Baud Rate" -- that latter choice will force the receiver to talk SiRF binary at 38400 or 57600, depending on the version of SiRFDemo you have.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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telocat

45 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  17:12:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Carl, Thanks for your response.

Here are some more details:

* I'm using SiRFDemo 3.6.1
* My GPS is a CF Fortuna Pocket XTrack (Xtrac v1)
* I'm using a PCMCIA card to connect my GPS to my laptop

*** I'm able to perform step 2.3 in the tutorial: Launch SiRFDemo using COM 4, 4800 baud. After I connect I see lots of data scrolling in the Debug view. All the data mostly starts with $GPG.... or $GPV...., I haven't figured out how too cut and past from SiRFDemo to show more details.

*** Now when I perform step 2.4, switch to SiRF Protocol, the Debug view stops scrolling and I see many 'Comm: CE_BREAK' and some 'Comm: CE_OVERRUN' messages and you suspected I was seeing.

At this point it seems that no matter what baud rate I choose for my initial connection (I tried them all, only 4800 would connect), SiRFDemo always switches to 38400 baud (seen in the title status) when I switch to SiRF Protocol.

*** I tried "Synchronize Protocol and Baud Rate" with no success.

*** Do I have to have a location fix for this to work? I'm trying out the software indoors where I don't believe I'm getting a fix. I though I wouldn't need a fix because I just want to shut off the static navigation setting.

*** One last thing I noticed is that the Target SW version is UNKOWN as indicated in the SiRFDemo title bar status no matter what setting I choose. I tried to 'autodetect' Target S/W or set it to SiRFXTrac, also without success.

Has anyone else been successful turning off Static Navigation on their CF Fortuna PocketXTrack? Maybe there is a trick to this or perhaps this particular GPS does not have that ability.

Thanks for any additional help.

Edited by - telocat on 20 avr. 2005 17:14:32
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  18:03:52  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You want to switch to NMEA/38,400 before connecting from SiRFdemo as it seems your Fortuna doesn't like a simultaneous Protocol/Bitrate switch. SiRFdemo won't let you do that though I believe, but uCenter by uBlox would or CeMonitor that runs on a PocketPC.

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  18:20:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually the Fortuna build is somewhat unusual in that it has NMEA protocol on port A and SiRF binary on port B. For that reason you cannot change from NMEA to binary on A since the receiver won't allow the same protocol on both ports simultaneously. And there is no NMEA command that changes the protocol on any port other than the one currently using NMEA. Unfortunately, you therefore cannot change from NMEA to binary with this receiver unless you find a way to reach that second port inside the package (and buffer it -- it only has CMOS drive levels!).

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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manolis1976

37 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  19:25:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i do not understand chapter 5 back to NMEA it means that before i close the program i have to go to actions and back to NMEA?
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manolis1976

37 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  19:34:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
and press the send buton?
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Leif

Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  19:37:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
My Yakumo delta 300 GPS with firmware 2.4.12.09-XMitac-C4PROD2.0 0000003729 actually has static navigation enabled as default!

After finding a program 'com2com' that relays data between com ports and building a serial cable I could connect COM1: on the PPC with SiRFDemo on my PC to check settings and turn off static navigation. It makes a noticable difference when walking.

Soldering a dense PPC connector is not easy for anyone and 'com2com' only supports 4800 baud making communication difficult, at least with deveopment data on, so a proper SiRFdemoPPC is really needed for most Mitac Mio 168, Yakumo delta 300 GPS, Navman Pin, Medion, etc. owners interested in geo caching or hiking.

My Swedish SiRF rep. has not responded to my request after more than a week.

BR
Leif
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  19:45:03  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sorry I was still investigating this PPC program, it works on and off and not at all with WM2003SE, if you want to give it a try, it's >HERE<

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  20:10:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For Manolis1976: you have your choice -- when you change a receiver from NMEA to binary, as long as the battery-backed RAM remains valid the receiver will return to binary when you next turn it on. If that is ok, you don't have to do anything. But if your mapping application or whatever uses NMEA, you probably want to switch back.

One note: the tutorial suggests that you can return to NMEA by doing a factory restart. We do not recommend that. In addition to returning things to their factory settings it also does two other things: erases the clock drift value from memory and erases any stored almanacs. Losing clock drift means that a cold start could take several minutes (depending on how far from "nominal" the GPS crystal is -- the farther it is off, the longer the cold start). Losing stored almanac means that the receiver will have to use the almanac programmed in at the factory, which could be a few months older than the receiver itself. If you have a receiver that saves almanac to flash (standard software receivers, this is not done in Xtrac), you will erase the flash almanac with a factory restart.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  20:17:47  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Right, this was not written with performance in mind, although I have yet to observe a different TTFF from "factory" than from "cold", but as a way to get back where you started if things go wrong and also an alternative way of going back to NMEA.

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manolis1976

37 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  20:21:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks carl@sirf for your reply

1.my destinator soft uses both sirf and NMEA protocols witch one should i choose(better maybe)
2.i didn't do factory reset i just used the action/BACK TO NMEA and press send to menu that apeared without change anything at the numbers i think that is ok

i am a litle careful with my new globalsat-338 reciever because if something happens to it we do not have service by the company in greece and i'll have to send it in US that means 50$ at least
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  20:31:17  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
With properly programmed software (it wasn't the case for Destinator v1 that only worked properly in SiRF mode), there is no "better" protocol, it's like asking if "Greek" is better than "latin" ;-)

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manolis1976

37 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  20:41:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
latin are far away easer than Greek ..Believe me :)
i understand that it is just a protocol but i asked this question because of the chapter 5 that tells

<<NMEA being the universal GPS language, best not to forget to return to that mode after looking up the advanced settings and possibly modifying them. There are two ways to proceed:>>

and using the phrase <<BEST NOT TO FORGET>>
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  20:46:09  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Right, it means that you use SiRF to configure your GPS and then switch back to NMEA to use it with navigation software ;-)

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gm4jjj

4 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2005 :  23:07:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a Holux GM-210
$Version 220.006.000
$Version user v2.20
$TOW: 330943
$WK: 1319
$POS: 3562226 -216901 5268642
$CLK: 94789
$CHNL:12$Baud rate: 4800 System clock: 12.277MHz
$HW Type: S2AR

With SiRF star I can enable WAAS in SiRF mode OK.
However I have not been able to switch WASS on/off using the NMEA commands
• WAAS Mode Disable
$PSRF108,00*02
• WAAS Mode Enable
$PSRF108,01*03

I can Hot Start OK with $PSRF104,0,0,0,96000,237759,922,12,1*2B so the GPS RX is understanding these type of commands OK in NMEA mode.
I am getting Differential SPS mode showing in NMEA mode but issuing the NMEA commands to turn it off don't appear to work.

Any advice welcomed.



Edited by - gm4jjj on 20 avr. 2005 23:09:24
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telocat

45 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2005 :  16:07:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
gpspassion, carl: Thanks for your responses regarding my Fortuna Xtrac v1 GPS. I think I've tried everything and won't be able to turn off static navigation (SN) using SiRFDemo, if that is even an option with my unit.

gpspassion: I can use CE Monitor (I have v1.1) but I don't see an option to disable SN. I can also connect successfully to VisualGPSce (v0.1) without difficulty, also no SN switch.

***** UPDATE: *****
***** I just logged onto www.visualgps.net and saw that VisualGPSce latest version is 1.00.1 released 2/14/2005 *****



All: last but not least, is there a Compact Flash SiRF III receiver available? I know CF is old technology, but I have become very accustomed to using it with my PPC (smaller size-volume than most BT devices, and no separate powersource to worry about. If I run short on battery on my PPC, I just plug in another replacable PPC battery that I always keep with me charged)

Thx.

Edited by - telocat on 21 avr. 2005 16:12:16
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2005 :  23:01:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
gm4jjj: The $PSRF108 command is not a standard SiRF command. If it was in SiRFstarI, that was before my time. It may have been a specific extension to the command set made by a manufacturer, but is not part of the standard SiRF lineup. Our proprietary commands end at $PSRF106, but we leave stubs (unimplemented commands that are defined in the tables but without any code behind them) for 107, 108 and 109 to make it easier for customers to add their own custom commands for their particular application. I suspect that is what 108 was in your previous receiver.


Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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gm4jjj

4 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2005 :  23:16:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Carl, I got those 108 commands from the GPS Viewer app that Holux supplied, but I always suspected that they didn't actually do anything. - The Hot start command is fine however. - fortunately SiRFDemo is working fine and I can change WAAS from there. I am just playing around with an NMEA parsing program (that I started in 2003) for my own amusement and education.

-- David GM4JJJ
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gm4jjj

4 Posts

Posted - 22 avr. 2005 :  14:00:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can anyone in Europe confirm if PRN 120 is working today? - Up until earlier this morning I was getting SBAS OK but now no luck. Haven't moved anything.

Question how does the GPS Receiver determine which EGNOS sat to use? Mine seems to always look for PRN 120 in SiRFdemo.
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 22 avr. 2005 :  17:06:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are a couple of ways that receivers determine which SBAS to look for. Using default software options, they search through a sequence that starts with the 2 WAAS birds (122 and 134), then 3 EGNOS PRNs (120, 131, 126), then through all the rest of the PRNs between 120 and 138, in order.

Second option is that a receiver may have been set to start with a different PRN. For example, receivers expected to be used in Europe can start with 120 so they don't find the eastern WAAS and get trapped in that system with lousy DOPs while in western Europe.

Regardless of where they start searching, once they find a satellite they learn the almanacs of all satellites in that constellation (WAAS satellites give almanacs of both WAAS satellites, EGNOS satellites give almanacs of EGNOS satellites). So once your position is known and you have the almanacs your receiver may switch to a better-positioned satellite within the same constellation.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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Leif

Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 22 avr. 2005 :  23:34:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Also PRN 124 is an EGNOS satellite.

AOR-E 120 (33) W15.5
Artemis 124 (37) E21.5
IOR-W 126 (39) E25.0
IOR-E 131 (44) E64.0

Garmin number in parantesis.

PRN 131 ESTB SIS Broadcast Schedule is at http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/egnos/estb/schedule.htm
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 avr. 2005 :  01:00:26  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, but this is OT (off topic) here, if you want to discuss SBAS, catch up with an existing thread or start a new one, thanks.

@leif - did you try that new PPC program on your Yakumo ?

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gm4jjj

4 Posts

Posted - 23 avr. 2005 :  09:50:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many thanks all. - Sorry didn't mean to hijack the thread. If you like we could delete the above posts on SBAS and move them to a new thread.
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yaronr

Israel
2 Posts

Posted - 23 avr. 2005 :  12:56:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Help!

I've used "set main serial port" to set the baud rate to 57600 on my GlobalSat BT 338, and from that point on it started sending garbage.
Now I can't set it back to anything else (it's not responding).

Is there a way to reset the reciever (Bluetooth)?
Please help!!!

--Y
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 avr. 2005 :  16:08:20  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Please see previous messages, you need to be at 38,400 to switch from NMEA to SiRF with SiRFdemo 3.61

@gm4jjj - sure, can't move the messages myself so you'd have to start a new thread ;-)




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Clamsy

2 Posts

Posted - 24 avr. 2005 :  19:49:39  Show Profile  Visit Clamsy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello,

i bought the new Motorola Smartphone MPX-220 with Windows Mobile and the TomTom-Software 4.430. I have the Bluetooth GPS Mouse GR-230.

I have the following Problem. I can connect with the GPS Mouse via Laptop and i get the Satelites (Com 4 - Serial Bluetooth Port Baut 38400) i use the Sirfdemo Software for PC.

So, but i can´t connect via Bluetooth with my cellphone. I start the connection to the Holux GR-230 i insert the correct Key to connect, and i have the serial connection to the Holux GPS Mouse GR-230. But it is finding no satellites.

Must i change the Baud-Rate, or what i must change? maybe someone can help me. I will be very glad about an useful answer.

Sorry for my bad english, i´m from Germany, i hope you understand what i mean.
Thanks a lot

Clamsy
Martin
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 24 avr. 2005 :  20:12:56  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Welcome but you're off topic here and TomTomMobile v4 is not designed to work with other receivers than the TomTom BT GPS, this will change with TTM5.

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Clamsy

2 Posts

Posted - 24 avr. 2005 :  22:42:13  Show Profile  Visit Clamsy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
oh thank you, it will work, when i install TTM5. OK, i look tomorrow to buy the new version and try it again.

If i have problems, i contact you again.

Thank you
Clamsy
Martin
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manolis1976

37 Posts

Posted - 26 avr. 2005 :  23:47:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i changed my 338 protocol to sirf ...and i just want to ask if it is going to keep that setting even with an empty of battery.
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2005 :  00:38:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The protocol setting is kept in battery-backed RAM. If you lose all battery power there may be a SuperCap or something similar to keep things alive, but there is also a good chance there isn't. If all backup power is lost BBRAM is corrupted and the receiver reverts to factory defaults. As long as some backup power remains, your new settings are retained.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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Leif

Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 03 mai 2005 :  21:49:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

@leif - did you try that new PPC program on your Yakumo ?



Yes. Thanks. spGPSView works nicely. I have PocketPC 2003 but not second edition. Still there is a lot of things spGPSView can't do compared to SiRFDemo on PC. How much can SiRFDemo PPC do?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 03 mai 2005 :  22:56:41  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not much, SPGPS really does a lot, what features do you miss ? SBAS correction monitoring comes to mind I guess.

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hausee

26 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  04:30:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I tried to use SIRFdemo to disable static navigation on my holux 236, but later it can not connect to my pda as well as notebook(through bluetooth usb adapter)

how can I get it back to work?

thanks
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  08:50:55  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Can't connect or can't communicate ? Maybe you left it in SiRF mode ? You need to switch back to NMEA.

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hausee

26 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  16:21:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
maybe that is true, because I saw "SiRF Mode" is in grey text. I tried to synchronize protocol and baud. then set to factory setting, nothing happened.

So What should I do?

I will head to Maine with this GPS on May 11st. I am so worried I can not get it to work before I leave. Do you have a faster way to conmunicate with you? like msn messenger. mingxu2001@hotmail.com

thanks
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  17:39:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Synchronize Protocol and Baud Rate actually only sends a command to the receiver to go to SiRF protocol, and it does it at every baud rate and in both SiRF and NMEA protocol. Then it switches to SiRF protocol at 57600 where it expects to find the receiver. If that doesn't work for you, it is probably because the receiver is set up to communicate at a different baud rate (e.g., 38400 for many Bluetooth receivers). If Synch doesn't work for you, after you have tried it scan each baud rate manually, starting at 4800 and working upwards to 115200. Assuming you find the receiver at one of them, remember that as your receiver is likely to go there whenever it is told to change protocol.

SiRFDemo is not a passive program like many monitors -- it often sends commands to the receiver when you aren't expecting it to. For example, if you open a log file, SiRFDemo sends a query for software version and navigation settings to the receiver and logs the results in the log file so that information is available when the file is reviewed. Likewise, if you try to issue a command to change some setting like static navigation, SiRFDemo queries the receiver to find the current setting, and if it is successful then the menu you see will have the option already set for you (I think that one sets the option so that if you just click "send" it will change the current setting -- for example, if static nav is off, it will show the default as "on" so if you click "send" it will change the setting).

For your current case, scan until you find where the receiver is talking, then command it back to NMEA at the right baud rate and you should be fine.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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hausee

26 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  19:37:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for you reply.

But after I scan each baud , I still can not get them to talk to each other. but it seems the computer can connect to gps, however when I use navigation software on my notebook, it return something like" although com is open, there is no data been received."

..............why they made such software so aggressive?!!!

help please :(

do I need a usb data cable?

Edited by - hausee on 06 mai 2005 19:39:36
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  20:09:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Are you using SiRFDemo? If so, are you seeing any activity in any of the following windows: Error View, Signal View, Map View, Debug View or Response View? If you see any activity, what is it, and in which window?

If you see something like "Comm: CE_BREAK" in the Error View, you have a receiver that is talking, but you have set the wrong baud rate. Try another one. Once you get data appearing in windows like Debug View or Signal View or Response View you can determine your protocol and switch to whatever is right for your navigation software (probably NMEA).

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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hausee

26 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  20:12:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
nothing in the windows....but I can see the windows flash without any data update...

:(
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  20:46:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is an icon just below the menus that looks like an equals sign turned on its side. Click on that and watch it. If it flashes red every second, that means you are getting data. The next thing is to find out what. Ensure the following windows are open: Signal View, Map View, Radar View, Geodetic Nav View, Debug View, Response View and Error View. If windows are flashing, there should be something in at least one of those windows. Error View if baud rate is mismatched, Debug View if output is NMEA, and elsewhere if output is Binary. Anything?

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  20:48:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One clarification: that icon I had you click on, the one that looks like an equals sign turned sideways, blocks screen updates. Once you see it flashing red, you know data is coming in. But you need to click it again to get the screen to update.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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hausee

26 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  21:12:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
now it is getting "better", I guess the connection between bluetooth adapter and gps is fake. After reinstall my BT usb driver, the notebook does find gps but can not start service...

So SirfDemo can change the baud that comunicate with BT usb adapter?

is there a reset button on Slim236? I may open the small box and uncharge the backup battery...:(

thanks
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hausee

26 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  21:31:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, in the geodetic nav view window:

Map Datum: HDOP
COG: Hdg Error

Clk Bias: Error
Clk Drft: Error
Traveled: Error

others are blank...:(

also I saw GPS bluetoot light blink abnormally. for Slim236 it should be 3s a time if connected, right? Mine like 3 time long, and 4 time short...

Edited by - hausee on 06 mai 2005 21:34:04
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hausee

26 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  21:53:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got reply from Holux, they said I can use "CE Monitor utility " to reset the manufactory setting. They also sent me a link, which after download, I found it is winfast! So what should I do?

thanks
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  22:02:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately I don't know the Holux details. My suggestion: pull out the battery and let it go back to factory defaults. And a warning to everyone: if you try to use the SiRFDemo feature "Synchronize Protocol and Baud Rate" it will tell your receiver to go to 57600 SiRF binary protocol. If you have a BT receiver like this one, where the BT modem only handles 38400, you just sent the receiver to never-never land! Unless you can directly connect to the serial port inside the receiver box, you have lost contact with it and battery removal is the only cure I know.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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hausee

26 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  22:08:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Carl.

I am gonna buy a bloody usb data cable with next day shipping, just in case I want to do expirment with it in the future :(

so how long do I have to let it set to completely dead? like 12+ days? do I have to pull out the battery? or just leave it there and let the power button on?

Or maybe I can open the box and discharge the backup battery(is there any?) Do you have a chart to show me how to open the Holux slim 236?

thanks
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  22:43:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In my experience, though not with this unit, leaving the battery out overnight should do it. On some units an hour is enough. Carl works for SiRF, and is here just to help out on technical issues, so he is not the one to ask about questions regarding individual units. That is out of topic here.

You might want to post your question over in the forum that is discussing the 236 and get some input from people who are actually using the unit.

Moderator
Don't forget the GPSPassion Club!
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hausee

26 Posts

Posted - 06 mai 2005 :  22:47:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
oh, sorry.

I will go ahead and looking for the 236 topic.

thanks for reminding me .
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admin_0

1 Posts

Posted - 07 mai 2005 :  22:40:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi, I am new to the GPS world. I have a GlobalSat BT-338. I downloaded the SiRF demo 3.61 here and installed on my PC. I followed instructions and was able to connected to the GPS and browsed through the settings. However, when I switched from SiRF protocol back to NMEA protocol, it had a NMEA setup pop-up window with a set of values showed up. e.g. GLL, ...

Do I take the presented value and click "send"? I do not want to alter the factory setting but since I do not know what was the factory setting, I have nothinf to compare with. If the presented values are not the factory setting, how can I get them back?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 09 mai 2005 :  03:33:42  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You can get them back by sending a factory reset command, the values by default are actually ok, the numbers represent the frequency of the messages.

Catching up with the activity in this thread !
1. I believe version 3.61 used the 38,400 baudrate when switching to SiRF, more recent ones use 57,600 for some reason, and that is inconvenient for use with most BT GPS receivers.

2. The good news though is that manufacturers don't let you change the baudrate of the GPS module independently from the BT module anymore, that happened with the Emact v1 prototype, Globalsat BT-308 and Holux 230 v1, but that was indeed a mess (neverland indeed) as there was no way to communicate with the GPS module anymore. From what I've seen since while a command may make you lose communication temporarily when switching protocol and baudrate at the same time, you can't desynch the BT and GPS modules anyore. If a receiver does not accept the SiRFdemo switch to SiRF the solution is to first swith to 38,400 or 57,600 with CE Monitor (Winfast) or spgps in NMEA and then connect via SiRFdemo at 38,400 or 57,600. You can also try connecting directly at the proper baudrat from SiRFdemo (i.e. 38,400 or 57,600, not 4,800)

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andrems

3 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2005 :  01:38:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is there any advantage using Static Navigation on SIRF IIe/LP chips, or is it almost the same with SN disabled?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2005 :  01:44:07  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Won't change much as IIe/LP chips unlike SS3 chips don't work with the very low signal that can cause the "jumping" that SN tries to smooth out.

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2005 :  01:49:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Biggest advantage to using SN is in automotive applications with map displays. These are often configured to show current heading at the top of the screen. Without SN enabled, such a display will often jump and spin while a vehicle is stationary at a stop light in urban environments. That was why the feature was first developed. For someone using a receiver in pedestrian mode, or even on a boat, I would never recommend it.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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andrems

3 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2005 :  02:00:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ok. Thanks for the answers. I asked this beacause I have two Haicom HI-303MMF with me. One made in 2002 with SN disabled by default. The other one made in 2004 with SN enabled by default. This SN only ignores speeds under 3Km/h. Both receivers use the same chipset.
As the heading in automotive applications doesn't bother me much and I like to hike with the GPS sometimes I think I'll stick around with the older one.

Thanks for helping me choose.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2005 :  17:40:07  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hum, I wouldn't draw that type of conclusion too quickly...as there might be something wrong with your software (what is it by the way)/setup/receivers (for a start it's likely a 302CF ?) because in my extensive testing in varying conditions (details here) I have never found SS2 to outperform SS3, in good conditions they're similar and in bad conditions SS2 doesn't work and SS3 does ;-)

From my (fairly extensive) experience testing these receivers, if SS3 is "jumping" as you say then there's practically no way SS2 would have a fix in the same conditions.

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2005 :  18:00:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Unless he has Static Navigation enabled :-)

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2005 :  18:09:46  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Right but then these would be pretty big 50m and predictable "jumps", not the "random" jumps one can see with very degraded signal ;-)

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2005 :  19:10:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You should start a new thread copying your message and call it "Pedestrian use of SiRFstarIII on foot", this is OT in a configuration thread. A few things to keep in mind, the 203CF does not exist (repeat) and if a GPS does not have a lock it doesn't have heading or speed either, this is just your software doing some "dead reckoning".

New thread is >>HERE<<

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permutations

12 Posts

Posted - 08 juin 2005 :  08:38:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have this problem:

------------------
4.8 Switching to User1 Protocol
If a user protocol has been defined and implemented in the version of software running,
Switch to User 1 menu item can be used to enable the user defined protocol.
If Switch to User 1 is selected, the target platform changes to the user defined protocol, but
SiRFdemo continues to operate in SiRF Binary.
Note - If the target platform is operating in the user defined protocol, there is no direct
method through SiRFdemo to switch the target platform back to SiRF Binary. An
application based on the user protocol must be used, or the Send Serial Message
ability may be utilized.
-----------------------

I switched to the User 1 protocol to see what it did, and not my receiver is dead in the water and I can't reset it to the way it was. Factory reset does nothing. The manual says you can send a serial command, BUT IT DOES NOT GIVE THE SERIAL COMMAND so it's not very helpful.

I was trying things because my Holux 236 overheats, doesn't hold a charge, and usually can't fix on satellites.

Please help me. How do I get my receiver back to factory settings?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 08 juin 2005 :  08:51:12  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ouch, yes playing around with the UART settings serves no purpose and can only leave the GPS in a sorry state, not sure why you did that especially with you'd apparently read in the manual? You might be able to get it back by connecting via USB but I doubt it, sorry.

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permutations

12 Posts

Posted - 08 juin 2005 :  09:05:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I read the manual AFTER I screwed it up (naturally). I was able to fix it by removing the battery for a while.

It seems to be fixing on the satellites much faster now, but it's also still getting very hot very fast, and I think the battery is still not holding a charge.

This receiver is brand new. So many problems...
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permutations

12 Posts

Posted - 08 juin 2005 :  09:08:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

Yes, but last I checked (version 1.02) SiRFdemoPPC that feature wasn't there unfortunately and I haven't seen it available for public download so far.



Where can I download sirfdemoppc?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 08 juin 2005 :  09:16:20  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Oh, ok that's good news. These batteries do tend to heat up, you can use a standard Nokia battery ( see http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=21511 ) si you might try to pick one up before returning your unit. SiRFdemoPPC is not available for public download, but spgps has offers more settings if it works on your PDA.

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 08 juin 2005 :  18:10:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
User1 Protocol is a shell protocol provided in the SiRF software so that customers requiring a special protocol for some application (example: talking to a modem using AT commands, or emulating some other existing protocol) can implement the special protocol with minimal effort. We don't tell you how to come back from that protocol because we don't know! We strongly recommend that customers implementing a custom protocol include some method to return to SiRF binary, but we can't tell them what that method might be.

As you found, if you send the receiver off to never-never land, the only recourse you have is effecting a factory reset by removing all power until the battery-backed RAM dies (sending a factory-reset command won't work because the receiver is no longer in SiRF binary protocol).

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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permutations

12 Posts

Posted - 09 juin 2005 :  03:22:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Very odd - I replied in this thread last night, but my reply isn't here.

I know about the Nokia batteries. The Holux Web site warns that they don't turn off when they overheat, but they don't explain the consequences. I think if the heat thing is so dangerous, they ought to find a way to not let it get so hot. I wonder if the large indicator lights contribute.

In any case, I am going to return it. Seeing in this forum that there are at least two other people with similar problems with the Holux (short battery life, long time to fix), I think they have a design flaw and it's not just my unit. There's also a problem with the GlobalSat BT-388 - it doesn't detect when it's paired with a PDA and keeps turning itself off. I bought and returned that one first.

So I think I'm going to return the Holux for a refund, and revisit GPS again in 6-12 months, when hopefully some of the kinks have been worked out of Sirf III.
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bteasley

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 10 juin 2005 :  04:45:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've used the SIRFDEMO to succesfully disable static navigation on a number of units I am working on. I havei.trek Compact Flash GPS receivers. But there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to when I can successfully switch BACK to NMEA mode after making the switch from static navigation enabled to disabled.

Steps I take are:

1) Open data source comm4 at 4800 (we are in NMEA)
2) Switch to SIRF (it goes to 38400)
3) Static Nav - Disable (sometimes it says "current" and the radio button is "on" for whatever is current - enabled if new device, since that is the default. othertimes it says "default" up where it sometimes says "current"). The command is "acknowledged"
4) Attempt to switch back to NMEA at 4800, but COMM Error (CE or break) shows up, indicating baud rate mis-match. (I.e., it didn't switch from 38,400 to 4800?). Then looking at options, it still says "switch to NMEA" as an option, rather than "switch to SIRF"

A factory reset WILL switch the settings back to NMEA (can't seem to make it happen any other way), but then of course, static nav is once again ENABLED.

I've made the switch, so I know it is possible, but can NOT figure out how to make it happen...

It is rather frustrating. Any ideas will help me (and anyone else who eventually reads this).

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 10 juin 2005 :  09:19:51  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok, looks like someone's read this ;-)
Yes, SiRFdemo is not the best protocol switcher out there because it changes both the baudrate and protocol at the same time, something most receivers do not like. If you can use your receivers at 38,400 then select that baudrate when going back to NMEA, that shoud work each time. If not use the spgps PocketPC tool if you have one to modify the settings.

As a side note, I haven't found that switching off SN on Xtrac receivers made much of a difference ?

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bteasley

USA
23 Posts

Posted - 10 juin 2005 :  23:37:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A follow-up:

For those people with i.trek compact flash GPS receivers (like me) you CAN get sirfdemo to switch the static navigation setting. You just have to keep trying and different switching (back to nmea, different baud rates (38400, 4800) until it works.

It also *seems* to work immediately if you do the necessary steps *extremely* quickly. But the first time you try to do it it isn't going to happen for you, because you won't know where all the drop down buttons/choices are. This could be "hearsay"... but my experience shows that might be the case.

Just thought I'd throw this info out here in case anyone who codes the sirfdemo program happens to read this.
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IIB

11 Posts

Posted - 18 juin 2005 :  22:27:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Carl@SiRF

User1 Protocol is a shell protocol provided in the SiRF software so that customers requiring a special protocol for some application (example: talking to a modem using AT commands, or emulating some other existing protocol) can implement the special protocol with minimal effort. We don't tell you how to come back from that protocol because we don't know! We strongly recommend that customers implementing a custom protocol include some method to return to SiRF binary, but we can't tell them what that method might be.

As you found, if you send the receiver off to never-never land, the only recourse you have is effecting a factory reset by removing all power until the battery-backed RAM dies (sending a factory-reset command won't work because the receiver is no longer in SiRF binary protocol).

Carl - SiRF Customer Support



Hi Carl,
I too have hit the User 1 command and sent my 236 into incommunicado land. I took the main battery out for 4 days - no luck!
Does the SiRF III chipset have a UART reset command which can be sent in HEX to a specific Port to clear the UART? I have the Holux USB cable to bypass bluetooth.
Thanks for any info,
IIB


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Laco

8 Posts

Posted - 19 juin 2005 :  09:01:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To carl@sirf

Is there a possibility to obtain SiRF III protocol (plus other SiRF protocols (II..)? Or a description of all SiRF protocol commands?
Thank you
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Squaredancer

284 Posts

Posted - 19 juin 2005 :  13:23:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You might find what you are looking for here

http://www.usglobalsat.com/
Go to support / downloads and scroll to the bottom of the page ( SiRF Binary Protocol (.pdf))

Edited by - Squaredancer on 19 juin 2005 13:24:25
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Laco

8 Posts

Posted - 19 juin 2005 :  16:47:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank You
thats it :)
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Laco

8 Posts

Posted - 23 juin 2005 :  14:02:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks again for the SW link.
There is written, that it is for SiRF II. Is there any SW for SiRF III? Or is there additional command for SiRF III ? What is the diference between SiRF II and SiRF III? rom command point of view?
Thanks
Laco

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 23 juin 2005 :  23:58:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The protocol in SS2 is the same as in SS3, with the exception of a couple additions for SS3. So if you have the binary protocol manual for SiRFstarII, you have it for almost all of SiRFstarIII, and things will work the same.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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Laco

8 Posts

Posted - 24 juin 2005 :  04:47:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can I have the few more commans (diferences) which make diferences between II and III ?
Thanks a lot.
Laco
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 24 juin 2005 :  17:45:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I checked the document on the GlobalSat web site and found that it was quite old (over 3 years). So I sent them the latest version. I haven't checked, but they tell me they have put the new document in place of the older one. Anyone who has the older document is encouraged to return and get the newer one.

Key differences between SS2 and SS3 binary is that SS3 no longer uses as many debug messages (Message ID 255), and instead uses a newer message 225. That message has sub-message IDs, most of which are not defined outside our Engineering department. Sub-ID 6, however, is the TTFF message, which may be of interest. Message 225 is turned on and off just like message 255: use the debug/development message flag in the reset configuration byte of the reset message (message 128).

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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Laco

8 Posts

Posted - 24 juin 2005 :  19:54:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thats it. Thank you :)
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captain1

Australia
4 Posts

Posted - 29 juin 2005 :  02:29:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by IIB

Hi Carl,
I too have hit the User 1 command and sent my 236 into incommunicado land. I took the main battery out for 4 days - no luck!
Does the SiRF III chipset have a UART reset command which can be sent in HEX to a specific Port to clear the UART? I have the Holux USB cable to bypass bluetooth.
Thanks for any info,
IIB




IIB,

I had the same problem with my holux. Only way I found to reset it is to open up the unit and identify the battery for ram backup. Desolder one of the pins of the battery for about 10 seconds then resolder it. Returns unit back to factory defaults.

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 29 juin 2005 :  17:56:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Captain1 has the answer right. If you switch to User1 protocol you have effectively transferred into a protocol that has nothing implemented except a message that tells you you are in that protocol. There are 2 ways to get out of that when there is no protocol there except the shell we provide, and one of those ways won't work! The way that works is what was said above: remove battery backup voltage and let the battery-backed RAM die so the unit does a factory restart. The way that won't work would be to use the second serial port. But that won't work for two reasons: the UART does not have an RS-232 driver on it, so the voltage levels and drive current won't support a PC port without external buffering, and because the software was most likely compiled without that UART supported. If you are able to reach SiRF binary protocol on the primary UART, rest assured that the secondary UART is not supported in the software.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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Laco

8 Posts

Posted - 04 juil. 2005 :  11:02:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
To Carl@SIRF

HI,
Im trying to understand the communication RDS-TMC GPS based on SiRF (Navilock BT 309).
I tought,that the description of commands will be in SiRF manual, but is not.
Can you help me with this commands?
Thanks
Laco


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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 04 juil. 2005 :  11:16:15  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
RDS-TMC is not related to GPS, it's an additional source of information that some receivers mix in the NMEA output, the 309 is not one of them though as far as I know, existing GPS/TMC receivers are listed here.

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Laco

8 Posts

Posted - 04 juil. 2005 :  11:46:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I definitely can be mistaken, but the net is full of BT 309 (with support of TMC.).
Take a look here

So, can somebody help me with the TMC commands?
Thanks
Laca
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 04 juil. 2005 :  11:56:07  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok, but this is not the the Navilock BT-309 at all, it is an OEM version of the GNS 9830 and again TMC is unrelated to the GPS signal, you should contact GNS for information on how they send TMC data with their receivers.

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Laco

8 Posts

Posted - 04 juil. 2005 :  13:28:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
You have righ.
I will follow this directions.
Thanks for help.
Laco
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dreamie

Sweden
27 Posts

Posted - 07 juil. 2005 :  12:28:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm unable to connect SiRFDemo to my device. I am given port "Serial port (SPP) BT-GPS COM Port - COM14" when adding the BT-device, as known device, to the PC. There is only COM1-COM12 but I can write COM14 myself, but will it really use COM14 then?

To be honest, I am not sure if there actually is an active connection between my PC and the GPS, how can I be sure of this?

I know this is quite OT, but I'm really lost and don't know whom to ask.

Thanks,

Peter
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dreamie

Sweden
27 Posts

Posted - 07 juil. 2005 :  14:36:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I got it to work now. I removed the battery of the receiver and the started it again after a while.
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nealh

30 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2005 :  16:02:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
so I do I assume if I get a BT GPS and need to do a cold restart..I will need a BT dongle and PC?

what about winfast CE navigator..will this allow a cold restart without a PC..I saw someone said they used this...
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2005 :  03:10:11  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, or SPGPS linked from the first page of this thread.

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admin_0

1 Posts

Posted - 20 juil. 2005 :  11:42:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm a newby in this field.

I just bought a GlobalSat BT-338. When I connect it to my PC with a BT dongle and start the SiRFDemo 3.61 I get a lot of 'Bad parity from SV xx, subframe x'. For the rest the BT-338 seems to work.

Is this a software problem or is there really something wrong with the GPS?

Thanks for the answer. And if this question has already been answered, I did not find it.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 25 juil. 2005 :  15:26:04  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the forums.
Sounds like you're using the wrong baudrate, make sure you select 38,400bps.

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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 26 juil. 2005 :  23:58:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually, I think his baud rate was set just fine. That particular error message means that he probably locked onto the satellites in the middle of a word of the navigation message. As a result he found a parity error (since he received the correct parity bits, but not all the actual data bits). This is a very normal and common error when you see it at startup. Other than that, you generally only see it when you have an actual parity error (pretty rare) or when you have a blockage and come out of it (same reason as when you see it at startup).

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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sanc

28 Posts

Posted - 29 juil. 2005 :  01:04:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I purchased a haicom 405III but the packaging is a haicom 405bt. Tried to use sirfdemo 3.61 and it wouldn't switch to sirf protocol. Actually it seems to adjust to the com and rate of 38400 but nothing from other screens. is this a software problem or something wrong with the 405?

Axim x50v SoftRom A04 Hardware A06. BT-338 Black
Axim x30 312mhz Haicom 405 III
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 04 août 2005 :  19:53:29  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, it happens some receivers cannot be switched to SiRF mode for some reason, I noticed the same thing on the SysOn SmartBlue recently.

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Bartman_x50v

42 Posts

Posted - 06 août 2005 :  22:53:43  Show Profile  Visit Bartman_x50v's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi
The program is simply great.
I have a BT 338 and I have some questions:
When i switch fron sirf to nimea how must set this parametry:
GGA
GLL
GSA
GSV
RMC
VTG
???
The default value:
1
1
1
5
1
1

Are right?
I must put only the baud rate to 38400?
or with Bt i must put in the GSV more then 5?

Thx


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Bartman_x50v

42 Posts

Posted - 07 août 2005 :  11:41:16  Show Profile  Visit Bartman_x50v's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hi
I have a strange problem with this fantastic program:
In formality sirf all works fine.
But when I have returned to the nmea with the parameters of the preceding post I have found that any window dont shows anymore data.
Only in the window "Debug view" I visualize the nmea string.
Instead The other windows stay white.
What or where have I been wrong?
Thanks

ps
in nmea mod i cant do nothing
in action menu i find only switch to sirf mode...

Edited by - Bartman_x50v on 07 août 2005 11:56:10
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 09 août 2005 :  00:19:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The values you put there are the message output rates in seconds between outputs, and should be set to output the specific messages you require (or you mapping program needs). The default settings are 1 second for GGA, GSA and RMC, and 5 seconds for GSV. If you want velocity and heading, you can put 1 second for VTG. GLL is available as an alternative to GGA. Set values only for the messages you want. Note that the ??? entries are for messages a manufacturer may add as an extra. Most do not add any, although some SiRF receivers support the ZDA (time and date) message in the middle of the 3 spots.

For NMEA mode, SiRFDemo only displays the messages in the Debug View window and does not provide information in the other windows. That is normal for the program. The program is designed only to demonstrate receivers, so it has some features only implemented with SiRF binary format. And since NMEA protocol is a universal protocol, it does not define functions to do many settings that are unique to a specific receiver. We implemented a few features in NMEA (such as changing to SiRF protocol, changing message rates, etc.), but not the others. To make those changes you must switch to binary mode, make the changes and then switch back to NMEA.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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Bartman_x50v

42 Posts

Posted - 09 août 2005 :  08:05:17  Show Profile  Visit Bartman_x50v's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thx
You have resolved many of my problem :)
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fantinfint

2 Posts

Posted - 09 août 2005 :  14:45:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hello,
i got problem with my fortuna clip on. The device is pared in windows and it has assigned com5 a slave outbound e com6 as inbound.

the baud rate is 4600 so i changed com ports value to 38400.

Now i open SirfDemo and select com5, changing baudrate to 38400. nothing happend (sigh). than i saw an action that claim to open data source ... DONE ... but it gave me an UART error (port in use, or non able to open).

No particular message in the log!!!

The strange fact is that if i use the antenna with my tomtom application, i can ses the satellite signals ...

Any help appreciated.
Tx alot
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fantinfint

2 Posts

Posted - 09 août 2005 :  15:53:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
hi, got some news ...
ok i choose to use the outgoing port for data cannection ...
i put it to 57k baud and it couples.

But i'm unable even to read the configuration ... 'cause application hangs ...

Then i put connection back to 38k baud and still openening data connectin but stil not working ... application is automatically set to view sirf data ... because it's in grey ... i can select only nmea switch ...

Antenna seems to work ... i broke coupling with the pc and coupled with my smartphone and alk things work fine ...
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 09 août 2005 :  18:47:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
That first message -- port in use -- meant that SiRFDemo was not able to take over the serial port because some other application already had it. You probably still had your original application in use.

As to the other problem, I suspect that is due to one of the quirks of Windows. I am not an expert here, but SiRFDemo is only designed to use a single port, not a pair. As a result, it probably can display the data when it is attached to the input port, but doesn't know to use a different port for outgoing messages. We'll need to rely on some of the Windows experts out there to assist you.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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acemtp

5 Posts

Posted - 14 août 2005 :  23:07:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do you know a tool that work on pocketpc arm on windows mobile 2003 that can enable/disable the STATIC NAVIGATION?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 août 2005 :  16:21:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
See * in the first message ;-)

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olivierroy

France
6 Posts

Posted - 23 août 2005 :  17:31:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi everybody,

I have used SirfDemo with my G-Space GS-232 BT GPS device and I think I set the wrong baud rate or protocol.
The consequence is that I cannot "talk" to it with any of my laptop or PDA. I would like to reset it to factory settings but I do not know how to do it. I have remove the battery overnight but it did not work so I am trying a whole week without battery.

Can someone help ?

Thanks in advance

Olivier

Olivier
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 23 août 2005 :  18:21:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Removing the battery is the right way to try to get this back. If it doesn't work immediately, try shorting between the battery terminals after you remove the battery. There may be some capacitors holding up the voltage. It is also possible that the manufacturer put a "SuperCap" (large capacitor on the order of 1 f) on the battery backup terminal that may take much longer to discharge, and which won't be affected by shorting the battery terminals since there is a regulator in between the battery and the SuperCap. In that case, time is the only way out. One other possibility is that the manufacturer may have put a small button-cell battery inside to hold the battery backup, and that would have to be removed to get things back to normal. But try these in order -- short between battery terminals, then wait a couple days, then finally open the unit up and look around for a backup battery.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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olivierroy

France
6 Posts

Posted - 24 août 2005 :  11:34:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thank you Carl,

I tried shorting the battery already + 1 night without battery and the settings remained.
Now it's been 4 days after shorting and I plan to wait another week before I try again.
If the problem remains, before opeing it, I will return it to the manufacturer (I bought it 1 month ago) to have it reset.

Thank you very much for your assistance. I am not yet GPS addicted but during the 2 weeks I used it in the car, I found it very useful and accurate. When my device works again, I will investigate on the possibilities it brings.

Olivier
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fcyron

3 Posts

Posted - 24 août 2005 :  17:51:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi,

I run into some serios problems with my Haicom 303S Card while using SiRFDemo. I switched to SiRF Mode and now I'm not able to switch back to NMEA no matter what I try. NMEA/38000 Baud doesn't work. "Initalize Data Source"->Factory Settings doesn't work either. Any ideas ?

kind regards,
Falk
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fcyron

3 Posts

Posted - 24 août 2005 :  18:07:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, I just saw the ongoing discussion. But just how do I get my 303S back to factory defaults? I mean, I'm not able to remove the battery from a CF-Device, or am I?

Kind regards,
Falk
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 24 août 2005 :  20:25:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The only way to do it is to leave it alone, and unplugged, until the battery or capacitor runs down.

Moderator
Don't forget the GPSPassion Club!
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olivierroy

France
6 Posts

Posted - 05 sept. 2005 :  16:27:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi All,

Just to let you know that for my GPS device (GS R232) it finally worked. I removed the battery, shorted the 3 pins of the device (to unload a possible capacity) and I waited 10 days.
I put back the battery and it can now give a position to my PDA (the baud speed, protocol.... have been reinitialized).

I hope it will work for you as well.

Olivier
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telocat

45 Posts

Posted - 06 sept. 2005 :  16:13:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by fcyron

Hi,

I run into some serios problems with my Haicom 303S Card while using SiRFDemo. I switched to SiRF Mode and now I'm not able to switch back to NMEA no matter what I try. NMEA/38000 Baud doesn't work. "Initalize Data Source"->Factory Settings doesn't work either. Any ideas ?

kind regards,
Falk



Hi Falk,

Can you tell me how you connected your 303S card to your computer to use SiRFDemo? I have a HI-305iii card that I'm trying out but cannot connect to SiRFDemo through a PCMCIA card. I know the PCMCIA setup works because I use my GPS on my laptop wit MS S&T.

I'm apparently able to connect to SiRFDemo in NMEA mode because the Debug window is very active with GPS data, but I never see information in the Map, Signal or any other window.

When I try to switch to SiRF protocol, I see COMM: CE_BREAK message
repeatedly in the ERROR view.

I've tried all initial baud rate settings with no success.

I'm starting to wonder if my problem is with connecting through the PCMCIA card because I've had this same problem with my other GPS, Fortuna Pocket XTrack.

Thanks.

HP iPAQ 2215, Fortuna PocketXTrack, Mapopolis v4.6
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 07 sept. 2005 :  03:36:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you see the COMM: CE_BREAK or CE_FRAME errors, you are seeing the data from the receiver, but your baud rate is not set right. Try each baud rate in turn and see if you always get that error indication. If at any time you don't get it, make sure your DEBUG VIEW window is open and you'll probably see NMEA data coming out. If all else fails, use the Action menu, Synchronize Protocol and Baud Rate option. That should send you to SiRF Binary at 57600 baud.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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db2boy

United Kingdom
4 Posts

Posted - 07 sept. 2005 :  10:04:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Carl,
As you mention I have tried every baud rate - only 4800 worked. It works find at 4800 and I see NMEA messages. Whatever I do or try I cannot get it to switch to SiRF mode. The Sync Protocol and Baud rate makes no difference. When I switch to 34800 I dont get the SiRF data showing but I sometimes get the menu allowing me to switch back to NMEA mode, if I try and change the config here it never sends the changes to the unit.

Rgds

Ant
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telocat

45 Posts

Posted - 07 sept. 2005 :  16:13:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Carl@SiRF

If you see the COMM: CE_BREAK or CE_FRAME errors, you are seeing the data from the receiver, but your baud rate is not set right. Try each baud rate in turn and see if you always get that error indication. If at any time you don't get it, make sure your DEBUG VIEW window is open and you'll probably see NMEA data coming out. If all else fails, use the Action menu, Synchronize Protocol and Baud Rate option. That should send you to SiRF Binary at 57600 baud.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support



Hi Carl,

I've tried all settings with the following results:

1200 baud: Comm: <continuous> CE_FRAME in Error View
2400 baud: Comm: <continuous> CE_FRAME in Error View
4800 baud: GOOD DATA IN DEBUG VIEW!!!!!
9600 baud: Comm: <continuous and alternating> CE_BREAK...CE_FRAME...etc in Error view
19200 baud: Comm: <continuous and alternating> CE_BREAK...CE_FRAME...etc in Error view
38400 baud: Comm: <continuous> CE_BREAK in error view
57600 baud: Comm: <continuous> CE_BREAK and some CE_OVERRUN in Error view
115200 baud: Comm: <continuous> CE_BREAK


I'm assuming all of this is in NMEA mode at this point. That would explain the good DEBUG data in 4800 baud mode and no good handshake in other baud rates. Also I read somewhere on this or another forum that Map, Signal, and other views don't work in SiRFDemo in NMEA mode, so no worries there.

NOW here are my results when switching from NMEA to SiRF Protocol in different baud rates: (each time I switch to SiRF Protocol, the menu bar ends up showing 38400 baud)

1200: Comm: <changes from> CE_FRAME to CE_BREAK
2400: Comm: <changes from> CE_FRAME to CE_BREAK
4800: Comm: <changes from> good DEBUG data to Comm: CE_BREAK
9600: Comm: <changes from> CE_BREAK/CE_FRAME to CE_BREAK
19200: Comm: <changes from> CE_BREAK/CE_FRAME to CE_BREAK
38400: Comm: CE_BREAK <no changes>
57600: Comm: CE_BREAK <no change>
115200: Comm: CE_BREAK <no change>

Also I've tried Synchronize Baud rate and protocol. I can see SiRFDemo switching between (scanning) all baud rates in the menu bar (two cycles) until it stops on 38400 and Comm: CE_BREAK in the Error View.

So I've tried all possible combinations. Can you recommend anything else that I should try? I'm reluctant to do a Factory reset on my new unit, but would this be recommended to see if it clears anything up? Should I start with a Cold Reset?

Thx.

: Trying this on a HI-305iii

HP iPAQ 2215, Fortuna PocketXTrack, Mapopolis v4.6
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 07 sept. 2005 :  23:05:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What version of SiRFDemo do you have? Older ones switched to 38400 baud while newer ones switch to 57600 baud. Most of the current software always switches to 57600 baud when you change to SiRF binary, so that probably explains why things are going away for you. Part of the reason things are happening is that SiRFDemo makes assumptions and does things that aren't always obvious. For example, when you issue the "switch to SiRF binary" command, it sends the command then changes itself to 38400 baud (in your version). Sometimes if you do things manually it works better for you. So, get things back to 4800 baud (factory default, get there by pulling the battery etc. -- see this thread earlier), then manually enter the command to switch to SiRF binary. You do that by using the Transmit Serial Message option on the Action menu. Compose the NMEA command in the large window (PSRF100,0,57600,8,1,0), then select the NMEA radio button and Send. SiRFDemo will fill in the $ at the start of the message and the *[checksum]<CR><LF> at the end and send it. That command will tell the receiver to go to 57600 baud binary. So you should then see CE_BREAK or CE_FRAME errors in the Error View. Switch your baud rate to 57600 and reconnect and you should be in business.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 07 sept. 2005 :  23:09:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One other possibility I should mention. Some software builds do not support message switching on the port. They may be set to have NMEA on the primary port and binary on the secondary port. If that is true, then you can't make the switch as the receiver won't allow the same protocol on both ports (even if you can't get to the second port). In that case, it will reject your command and you will see data still coming out at 4800 baud in NMEA. In a receiver setup that way, you are stuck using nothing but NMEA.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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telocat

45 Posts

Posted - 08 sept. 2005 :  03:29:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Carl@SiRF

One other possibility I should mention. Some software builds do not support message switching on the port. They may be set to have NMEA on the primary port and binary on the secondary port. If that is true, then you can't make the switch as the receiver won't allow the same protocol on both ports (even if you can't get to the second port). In that case, it will reject your command and you will see data still coming out at 4800 baud in NMEA. In a receiver setup that way, you are stuck using nothing but NMEA.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support



Hi Carl,

I realy appreciate your help. I am using SiRFDemo v3.61 on a CF Card SiRFIII receiver.

I've tried the 'transmit serial message' as you suggested and as you predicted I'm afraid the command was rejected and data was still coming out in NMEA 4800 mode. It appears as if your theory that some builds do not support message switching on the same port is just my case. Thus I think I've reached the end of the road of trying to view the firmware version and set Static Navigation using SiRFDemo.

Again thanks to all (especially Carl and gpspassion) for your help investigating my case.

HP iPAQ 2215, Fortuna PocketXTrack, Mapopolis v4.6
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Leif

Sweden
141 Posts

Posted - 08 sept. 2005 :  22:54:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know if this applies to your gps card but my Yakumo Delta 300 GPS, (rebadged Mitac Mio 168), outputs version text in NMEA mode when the gps unit is turned on. I.e. when opening the com port.
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 09 sept. 2005 :  00:13:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Many of the units do, but that won't tell you if both ports are defined, or what is on the second port if it is defined. The version string is installed by SiRF, but the port configuration is under the control of the receiver manufacturer.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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admin_0

1 Posts

Posted - 11 sept. 2005 :  22:50:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Carl@SiRF

What version of SiRFDemo do you have? Older ones switched to 38400 baud while newer ones switch to 57600 baud.



Is v3.61 the latest version that we should use please?

I have a Holux GR-213 (SiRF III) coming this week and I need to switch on VTG messages but there doesnt seem to be any documentation to do this on the Holux.tw website. Reading the manual from an old and different mouse suggests this is set using SiRFDemo. Could you point me to some more recent instructions to do this please?

I probably should get it first and load up the demo before I ask questions but i like to be prepared :)

Thanks a lot

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 sept. 2005 :  22:58:14  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the forums.
Yes SiRFdemo 3.61 should do the trick, or if you're hopking it up to to a PocketPC, CE Monitor.

_________________________________________________________________________
Discounts and Assistance/Réductions et Assistance (Club GpsPasSion) / Où commencer?
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 12 sept. 2005 :  17:27:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
3.61 is getting a bit old. I generally use 3.82, but I don't think that is out for general distribution. I think 3.81 is the latest we post for our customers.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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forests_gump

5 Posts

Posted - 14 sept. 2005 :  01:56:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am using a SS3 GPS on WM2003SE PPC.

So far, I have no problem getting into/out of NMEA/SIRF mode using CE Monitor or GPSTweak

I am interested in doing commandline activation of Static Navigation via PPC. However, neither CE Monitor and GPSTweak support commandline.

Anyone come across any application that allows commandline into the SS3?




Edited by - forests_gump on 14 sept. 2005 01:57:02
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IIB

11 Posts

Posted - 14 sept. 2005 :  04:33:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Carl@SiRF

3.61 is getting a bit old. I generally use 3.82, but I don't think that is out for general distribution. I think 3.81 is the latest we post for our customers.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support



Hi Carl,

Appreciate you participation in this forum, very informative.
Could you point me/us at a downloadable SiRFDemo 3.81/2 ?

Thanks,

IIB
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Erich77

Germany
4 Posts

Posted - 17 sept. 2005 :  16:27:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In order to use Sirfdemo v. 3.61 (quote):

"you need to identify the correct COM port used by your GPS":

I have a Haicom HI-303MMF cf GPS, connected via a CF/PCMCIA adapter to my laptop. The only driver offered by Haicom is haicom10.inf. However this is not accepted as a driver by WinXP. So there is no COM port associated with it. Any help/clarification?
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 19 sept. 2005 :  17:22:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am not sure how SiRFDemo in general has gotten out into the world of general distribution, but we place it on our secure web site for our registered users (customers). You might contact the manufacturer of your unit and see if they could supply it to you.

SiRFDemo always uses what it thinks is a com port, so if you have an unusual hookup, you need to make it look like a com port. For example, I have seen programs that translate between com port interface and TCP/IP ports.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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hasley

Spain
4 Posts

Posted - 19 sept. 2005 :  20:48:51  Show Profile  Visit hasley's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hello,
which one, nmea and sirf protocols, has more consuption? Is the diference noticeable?
If the sirf protocol is the native one of the chipset, the part who parse it to nmea may be off in sirf mode (and make no consuption) (?).
And, the nmea protocol is a polling one (sends data all the time), and it seems (to me) that the sirf protocol is event drived, who meant less energy consumption, ist it?

The velocity of the bluetooth comunication, is real? I mean, the consumption is the same at 4800 like at 38400? I said this, cos I suppose that the bluetooth serial port really ignores the port velocity, and it's only a backwards compatibility issue. Isnt it?

Thanks
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 19 sept. 2005 :  21:02:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Both protocols work the same: events in the software trigger output messages. Events can be such things as navigation solution is complete, a new visibility list is complete, etc. Most NMEA messages are triggered by the nav solution complete, as are most binary messages. Although there are a few binary messages that are triggered by other things, they are often turned off. I don't think protocol has as much effect on power consumption as the total number of bits to be sent each second. So turn off any messages you don't need if you are trying to keep power consumption down. As to port baud rate, the drive current for the port is the issue, and the shorter the time you drive it the less power it will consume. So you should use the highest baud rate you can for lowest power. However, with Bluetooth devices often the baud rate is fixed and cannot be changed -- both binary and NMEA come out at 38400 baud or 19200 baud or whatever the modem requires. Don't try to change that or you will lose communications with the receiver.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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hasley

Spain
4 Posts

Posted - 19 sept. 2005 :  23:17:54  Show Profile  Visit hasley's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thank you for the answer. I'll try the sirf mode for a few days instead nmea and i'll see what happends. As you say I hope I'll dont expect diferences at all respect to the power usage.
By now, the sirf is more powerfull protocol than the nmea, who has a few legacy issues.
Is nmea an only way protocol? (gps->device)
Is there a way (a sirf command..) to read the battery level in the gps? By now, i dont see any program who does it...

Respect to the protocol speed, I supposse you mean to use the higgest velocity cos the time to send the messages will be small and the power used to send it will be less, isnt it? In this case, the messages from the device are generated sincronized with a internal clock of the gps processor, and the bauds velocity of the bluetooth virtual port dont change the number of messages sended, isnt it?

thank you again, and excuse me for my poor english.
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Carl@SiRF

USA
159 Posts

Posted - 19 sept. 2005 :  23:54:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There is no message implemented by SiRF to read battery level. Individual manufacturers may add such a message if they desire, although I am not aware of any who have added that specific message.

NMEA messages as defined by NMEA are one way. However, NMEA does define what it calls a proprietary message ($P...) that can be anything. SiRF has implemented about 6 messages from host to receiver for some controls. That is how you are able to change from NMEA to SiRF protocol: using a proprietary message. The available messages are in the SiRF NMEA Protocol Manual, which you should be able to find on various web sites. SiRF customers often extend this protocol as well, so check with the supplier of your receiver.

Your analysis of my response on baud rate is correct: the less time you spend transmitting a message the less power you use to drive the bus. But don't get your hopes too high. The power consumed by the bus is not very high. Your comment that baud rate does not change the number of messages is also correct. You can turn off any messages which are routinely output but which you don't need, and thus save both the time to send and the power consumed.

Carl - SiRF Customer Support
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