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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 17 juin 2003 :  01:40:41  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Updated 07/08

A brief overview of the pros and cons:
+ Superb User Interface
+ Fast routing/re-routing
- Poor map and Instruction List modes
- No Intersecting/current street info

There is also an issue with the routes calculated by TomTom Navigator.


Original post
Just got my test version of TomTom USA!
Before a review is posted at the end of the month or early next month, feel free to ask any questions and I'll post thoughts and various links.

See how the maps are cut here:
http://www.tomtom.com/products/platform/extra_info.php?Extra_Page=31&Language=4&ID=208

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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 18 juin 2003 :  04:21:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How do you feel about TomTom vs Netropa? I haven't played with TomTom at all and wondered what your initial thoughts are. Assuming that both progs have good map data, GUI's and presentation? And, most important, will there be any deals on TomTom USA thru this forum?

Edited by - rem on 18 juin 2003 04:22:07
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 18 juin 2003 :  10:34:06  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Most important ;-) yes, there should be deals, I'll know for sure in a few days!

1. TomTom has a wonderfully "fluid" UI where Netropa's is a bit "delayed".
2. Map data is TeleAtlas vs NavTech, so that means more details outside dense areas, but also more inaccuracies and outdated data
3. My current concern is that on my US test routes, TomTom didn't do very well producing poor resuts compared with all other existing US solutions. Can't figure out why because routing is top notch in Europe and the TeleAtlas is also used by PMN.

Feel free to chime in with other specific questions, I'll rename that thread.


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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 18 juin 2003 :  16:44:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Will you mention your problems with routing to TomTOm and see what they say?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 18 juin 2003 :  20:21:34  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I had started to describe them by email, but they directed me to their feedback form and I haven't had a chance to enter the data there yet, here it is BTW - http://www.tomtom.com/feedback/

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ZappCatt

USA
363 Posts

Posted - 19 juin 2003 :  00:38:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
PPC GPS Software reviews...
There are a couple of items I would love to see added to the software reviews.

1) How are the Maps organized? a)County by County b) East/West US, c) State by State
2) Is there a choice to "make your own maps"
3) Is there any limitation on the amount of maps you can have loaded at once? Does the software support "dynamic loading of maps"
4) How do you go about creating the route/figuring out what maps you need?
For example. Mapopolis is county by county. I would like to drive from SF to LA..How the HECK would I figure out how many/which counties I would go through? What limitations would I hit 20M? etc..
5)Compare price/performance/features/value. I know that this is subjective..
For example, Mapopolis Navigator is $99..but I would also need the POI data which adds $25. TomTom Navigator is going to be $199..drastically more expensive..Routis is $99...PocketMap Navigator is $80(sorry Eli!!!). etc.

THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited by - ZappCatt on 19 juin 2003 06:35:02
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 19 juin 2003 :  01:20:39  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the suggestions ;-)
By combining
- the overview - http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/NavOverview.htm
- the list - http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/Nav_Comp_e.htm
- the reviews - http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=28
you should get there, but your points are well taken!

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EliFrmPocketMap

293 Posts

Posted - 19 juin 2003 :  04:33:48  Show Profile  Visit EliFrmPocketMap's Homepage  Reply with Quote
PocketMap Navigator (PMN), for the record, has always been selling
at $79.95. We have the front banneron GPSpassion to prove it :-)
http://www.gpspassion.com/pics/banner/PMNBannerAd_01.gif

Taking pricing into consideration is a very good point. I am sure
the readers would like to see that in the reviews too!

Peace,
EliFrmPocketMap

PocketMap Navigator, the most advanced personal navigator on planet earth.

We are shipping PocketMap Navigator R2.11!
www.pocketmapstore.com
www.pocketmap.com

Edited by - EliFrmPocketMap on 19 juin 2003 19:59:16
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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 19 juin 2003 :  20:55:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

Most important ;-) yes, there should be deals, I'll know for sure in a few days!

1. TomTom has a wonderfully "fluid" UI where Netropa's is a bit "delayed".
2. Map data is TeleAtlas vs NavTech, so that means more details outside dense areas, but also more inaccuracies and outdated data
3. My current concern is that on my US test routes, TomTom didn't do very well producing poor resuts compared with all other existing US solutions. Can't figure out why because routing is top notch in Europe and the TeleAtlas is also used by PMN.

Feel free to chime in with other specific questions, I'll rename that thread.

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How outdated is the TeleAtlas data?

I sure hope you can give us a full TomTom review before the end of the month, since that is when the 50% discount offer ends!
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 19 juin 2003 :  22:43:53  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'll work on that, but right now I'm "hammered"...
It's hard to "date" map data as it's easy for map manufacturers to work hard on largely populated areas to please the largest number of people. That's what TeleAtlas did in France recently. Useful, but when you drive out to the country side, well..., my wife almost had a nervous breakdown after one too many unplanned dirt roads!

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rancho1

354 Posts

Posted - 22 juin 2003 :  01:16:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

That's so sad that the map data and routing are poor, yet the interface and other features are nice.
Sounds like Pocket CoPilot all over again!
No one company can seem to get together a great interface without population limits or memory management problems along with good maps and routing in one package.
Looks like the best you can do is to install both Mapopolis for driving around town with accurate and up to date street directions in the city and use CoPilot Live for driving long distances without population or memory management concerns.

Edited by - rancho1 on 22 juin 2003 01:22:11
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 22 juin 2003 :  09:46:11  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
1. Routing - More testing shows that you can get good routes by using the "alternative route" function, which is better than nothing, but kind of defeats the purpose of routing inthe first place...
2. Map data - I wouldn't say it's poor? It should be the same as PMN's (except MUCH more compressed probably with loss of data too) 212mb for PMN and 66mb for TomTom!
3. Yup no perfect solution, eh! TomTom could be a contender but map management is lacking for VERY long distance or if you happen to live on the "tip" of one of their pre-cut maps (like Destinator).
4. I still think that Intellinav is the best "overall" solution as you get a super UI, NavTech maps and can "build" your regions (within the current RAM usage limitaions of course). If they can fix the RAM errors caused by loading the highway grids by loading that data dynamically like they do for detailed data (and also offer "corridor" cutting like CoPilot), they've got it made ;-)

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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 23 juin 2003 :  16:20:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
just ordered my TomTom software, they mentione the products have just arrived in customs at NY and will be shipped later this week.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 juin 2003 :  16:31:40  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
was that a special 50% deal?

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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 23 juin 2003 :  16:37:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes it was.

HEre is TomTOm response to updated maps.

Steve:

When the product ships we will also have a website established with Teleatlas
that will allow consumers to go online and enter map discrepanices directly to
them.  The maps are being constanly updated and many changes have occurred since
the initial field testing began,  While there is probably no way to ensure that
the maps will be 100% accurate, we are striving to make them as complete as we
can.  As I mentioned there will be updated maps available on a regular basis.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 juin 2003 :  16:48:09  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hehe...while there's nothing "incorrect" about that "map update" statement, it doesn't make any commitments either (availability, format, price, etc...);-)

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kinged

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 24 juin 2003 :  17:18:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can the gpspassion review the Tomtom soon? The special 50% offer expires at the end of the month. I am thinking of getting it to go with the bluetooth Emtac. I am trying to decide between Pocket Navigator vs Tomtom. I like the constant upgrade and support the navigator has. But the look of Tomtom (3d View) absolutely blows me away.
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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 25 juin 2003 :  17:16:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is the latest from TomTom regarding shipping of their USA product

The product has cleared customs and has arrived at our warehouse for shipment.
We anticipate shipment beginning on Thursday June 26th.  We will keep you
informed of the actual ship dates and provide you with tracking numbers for your
materials.
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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 29 juin 2003 :  23:11:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
gpspassion:

Today is the last day of the TomTom 50% discount offer. I know there are a lot of people who would like to read your review before sending in $90 to TomTom (myself included, of course). Is it possible for you to give us at least a brief review today? A "mini-review" perhaps? Or at the very least just tell us whether its worth even trying?

Thanks!

- gman
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 30 juin 2003 :  13:22:12  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sorry, I'm on a short break far from home and have to rely on a slow and expensive GPRS connection. Is it worth trying? If you're a GPS Assisted Navigation fan, clearly yes! As for details, don't have a lot to add to my previous comments at this point (Routing, Map Management) and really can't give a blanket opinion without knowing what your needs are.

GpsPasSion Club members can send me an email at tomtom@gpspassion.com with their specific needs and I'll try to address them ASAP.

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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 01 juil. 2003 :  19:14:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Has this product started shipping yet?
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qiyang

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 01 juil. 2003 :  20:26:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wallstreet123456

Has this product started shipping yet?


I have received a notice from MobilePlanet and was told that my order was shipped on June 28 from their warehouse and scheduled to arrive on July 7.
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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 02 juil. 2003 :  03:26:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ordered mine directly from TOMTOM with my 50% discount they offered and it has not shipped yet :(
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raaaaaa

USA
315 Posts

Posted - 03 juil. 2003 :  06:26:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wallstreet123456

Ordered mine directly from TOMTOM with my 50% discount they offered and it has not shipped yet :(



Yeah they sent me an email that said they got there shipment in and would ship out that thursday.

it is now a week later and nothing can the suspense get any worst.
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admin_0

1 Posts

Posted - 03 juil. 2003 :  11:42:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I ordered mine with the 50% discount as well and just received it yesterday. I've been using Mapopolis and have been fairly happy with it. But I've just heard so many good things about TomTom and with the 3D view, I just couldn't resist.

I've only done limited testing so far, but it is very impressive. I love the large buttons that make it possible to use your fingers to make selections. The 3D view is the most useful interface I've seen. I miss seeing some details though. It might make the screen too cluttered, but it would be nice to have street names appear on the 3D view.

For some reason I had some trouble getting it to work with my Holux 270 CF at first. I'm not sure what I did, but after a little while it started working. Too soon to say, but I'm hooked. Very nice program!
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 03 juil. 2003 :  11:50:39  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Take it on the road ;-) and looking forward to more feedback, especially on the quality of the maps compared with Mapopolis. In France TeleAtlas is ok in large towns but in the countyside it's pretty bad (routes you through dirt roads, misses 5+ years old roads, etc...)

It is a very "nice" program indeed, but you'll probably find pretty quickly that the 3D view is only really useful on the open road as it's not precise enough in town - that's what 3 months of use in France have brought out at least!

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admin_0

1 Posts

Posted - 06 juil. 2003 :  09:34:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Is this TOMTOM2 that you guys are discussing, or is it the TOMTOM "1"? I am also trying to decide on which software to get for my PDA...It seems like TOMTOM is going to be what I want to purchase, but there are some concerns that I have...Also, is TOMTOM @ going to be reviewed? Thanx
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 06 juil. 2003 :  09:49:53  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
TomTom Navigator v1 was released in Europe in July 2002 and v2 came out in March 2003 so the first USA release will be v2. Yes it will be reviewed. Needed some US bases live testing and that's now lined up ;-)


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freeway680

45 Posts

Posted - 06 juil. 2003 :  16:33:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
can you please trying to compare routis and tomtom usa since I narrow down to these two and waiting for you review. Thanks
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 06 juil. 2003 :  16:48:23  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
For a start the price of TomTom is 2x, I can tell you from the get got that this is not justified IMHO. If money is not an issue, it would be pretty close.

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 08 juil. 2003 :  21:50:01  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok the review process is in the works!
For a start here's the "pros and cons" overview http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/NavOverview.htm

Questions/comments/Additions?

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 08 juil. 2003 :  22:20:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As the initial testing to be done for the review has been postponed by a last minute business trip until next week, I'll offer a few comments from my first two drives, and much playing, with the program:

1. It's a very nice program but there is nothing to justify the price premium that is being asked. Overall I would prefer Routis.

2. It has some very annoying quirks - all distances less than a mile are given in yards (who ever uses yards!); the map screen, as opposed to the navigation screen, does not do heading up, so it can be confusing at times; the navigation screen does not show the name of the road you are on or any of the intersecting roads, which I find unacceptable.

3. Routing is very fast, the program is very responsive, the GUI is very nice, the voice prompts are clear, loud very useful. The 3d mode is nice, but no big deal.

4. There are a lot of options and settings, more than other programs.

5. I would downgrade the comparison by half a grade in each category because of the lack of heading up in map mode and lack of information in the navigation mode.

More details, with screenshots, when I get back from Houston.

Edited by - paulkbiba on 08 juil. 2003 22:25:29
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qiyang

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  00:52:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by paulkbiba


2. It has some very annoying quirks - all distances less than a mile are given in yards (who ever uses yards!); the map screen, as opposed to the navigation screen, does not do heading up, so it can be confusing at times; the navigation screen does not show the name of the road you are on or any of the intersecting roads, which I find unacceptable.


In the navigation view, the name of the road you are on is shown at the buttom of the screen (samll font, maybe 12pt). The next "significant" road (eg. freeways, arterials, etc) you are going to take is shown in large font at the top right. The voice instruction tells the type of your next turn (and the distance to that turn), such as left, right, or uturn. It would be helpful if it draws the name of the next street (or announce it with synthesized voice) in the navigation view.

If I had a choice between "3D" vs "head-up" map feature, I would pay for "head-up" map but get the "3D" view only if it is for free.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  01:40:29  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No Paul is right, the road you're on is not displayed at the bottom of the screen. What is displayed there is the next road/turn. You have to hit the screen and look at the bottom of the menu to see what road you're on. Big minus and in Europe people have been requesting that change for nearly a year now, doesn't seem too difficult to fix...

3D view is nice on the a highway when cruising but I don't find it accurate enough for city navigation.

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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  03:46:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I only have Copilot live right now and am waiting on TomTom. Copilot shows on the bottom of the screen what the next intersecting streets name is. Does TomTOm at least show that?
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  04:25:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No. Only the name of next street you will turn onto.
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freeway680

45 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  05:19:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Routis and tomtom usa
Which one has more accurate map? and which one has better route? which one is better if I drive from IL to CA? Let say money is not a problem. Which one would you pick base on the three question above. Thanks guys.
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  05:39:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It isn't a simple question.

If you are looking for long distance routing then you want PMN.

If you want many options for routing you want Routis.

Map accuracy is probably the same with all of the programs.
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freeway680

45 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  06:24:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
does routis has true "heading up"?
how does routis divide their map? Is it into states? or county like mapopolis?
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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  07:13:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Its divided by states. Or, you can load a region by city radius.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  09:43:12  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
freeway680 - TomTom won't route you from IL to CA because of its pre-cut maps and the impossibility to route between maps. Yes Intellinav has true heading up, its absence would have been highlighted here: http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/NavOverview.htm

For long distance routing, the king remains CoPilot because you can drive for 1,500 miles and still have details in a definable corridor around your map. This is absolutely amazing.

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freeway680

45 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  16:42:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
what if I load all the states that I am going to cross from IL to CA for routis. Can I route from IL to CA then?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  16:46:46  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No, like I said you can't route from one map to another :-(

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freeway680

45 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  16:54:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
really? well at least tomtom has regional maps that group states together, can I route through these states then? what about routis? does it has regianal map? thanks for the fast respond, gpspassion.
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freeway680

45 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  16:59:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
what about the POI guys? which one is better routis or tomtom?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  17:04:50  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes you can route INSIDE a map withouth a problem. It becomes a problem if your trip takes you outside this map.
Intellinav lets you aggregate states, but can hit some RAM limits, see the links from here http://www.gpspassion.com/en/software/NavOverview.htm

Not sure about POIs, on average, TeleAtlas POIs have been inferior and less up to date than NavTech's (they do have Post Offices though unlike NavTech), but Intellinav have filtered out a bunch and have less than say (Destinator)

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freeway680

45 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  17:25:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
some people were talking about how tomtom doesn't have the street name on 3D view but what about the 2D? they were talking about no name on intersection and the name of the street that you are on. This is going to be my first time using the navigator so I am a little confused about this. Can someone please clarify this for me. Picture will be perfect. Thank you so much

Buying a bluetooth hardware was much much easy than software.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  17:32:12  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Same thing in 2D or 3D modes for that.
You can look at screenshots of the French version here: http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=45&page=4
In the bottom it shows the NEXT street
Now when you touch the screen and are taken to the "MENU" screen, you'll see your current street in the bottom but that's not enough IMHO.

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freeway680

45 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  18:10:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thank you for the picture link gpspassion. i also went over to routis website and look at their screenshots. Upto this point I am leaning toward routis. Looking at the tomtom screen, I feel like I have no idea where i am at. No street names, what's up with that? Right now I am 80% sure that I want routis. I have two more questions before I buy routis. How is the voice? is it easy to understand? Is it loud enough? Do they have more than one voice? Is there anyway that I can look at the "pre-cut map" like the tomtom before I buy it?

I am going to drive from IL to CA in August and if I buy routis what is the best way to load the map for my trip? Do I need 1 gig CF? Sorry for all these question but I really don't know much about this. thanks
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  18:25:20  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, this "where am I" problem is a major annoyance with TomTom. I guess they feel you don't need the info since they're guiding you...

Let's save Routis questions for another thread. Feel free to start another one. Here's a good thread for the tips and tricks with Intellinav: http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1376

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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  22:48:12  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
When I (finally) received TomTom Navigator USA on Monday (7/7), I was tempted to write a review after two days' exercise but later gave up. The reason's mixed and is better illustrated with my comments below:

I feel that the most annoyance of TomTom Navigator is the very limited POI database. Apparently the POI DB data is rather outdated, also.

I found the voice prompt navigation to be as efficient as iGuidance/Routis, if not better. Although the route planned may not be as "comfortable" as I'd like it to be. There doesn't seem to be a way to manually set to "avoid freeway" or "use local" but to resort to the "alternate route" menu option that it automatically calculates optional routes for you. Am I missing something? Also, I can't access the "alternate route" function from the Navigator menu for some reason. The menu item at the bottom does work, however. A bug, maybe?

The contact address integration is unorthodox to me, having to switch to the contact app to route to a certain contact address. This seems to me more like a temporary workaround TomTom puts together rather than an "integration".

So far, I haven't encountered routing/navigation annoyances like the "cloverleaf" and "aggressive highway locking" issues that are plaquing iGuidance/Routis). More real-world testing is required to reveal bugs and issues.

Overall, my take so far is:
(1) iGuidance/Routis sports a UI that's a little more streamlined, which requires less finger/stylus touches on the screen to perform certain operation.
(2) iGuidance/Routis generates somewhat more "comfortable" routes for most routes I've tried. I've also noticed an exit on the route
TomTom Navigator generated has an outdated name that is not even seen on the highway off-ramp traffic sign. This is identical to what I experienced on Destinator, though Destinator is based on NavTech map data. Well, go figure ...
(3) The two programs tie in navigation and re-routing. Both have excellent navigation prompts and both re-routes quickly as you go off-route. The default female voice on TomTom is louder than that on iGuidance, though.
(4) TomTom Navigator excels in two areas:
- smaller map size (I know they are based on different sources, but...)
- Fluid operations at any point of use. iGuidance/Routis sometimes freezes a little for no apparent reason. Also, iGuidance/Routis performance seems to be negatively affected by how much fragmented the installed app/sound files/map data are on the storage device, which is never the case with other GPS software I've used.

Until intelliNav fixes the two major routing/navigation issues on iGuidance/Routis, I am going to keep Mapopolis, iGuidance, and TomTom Navigator on my PPC. I believe TomTom will try to improve on the currently lacking POIs and continue to tweak their routing engine to generate more "friendly" routes. As a user, I'd like to see both compete the #1 spot of Best Overall Navigation App.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 09 juil. 2003 :  22:59:11  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the detailed feedback.
1. The POI database didn't strike me as being that bad, but it is indeed similar to the one used by PocketMap Navigator and is not always very accurate/up to date.
2. Are the maps really smaller? I loaded CA and it was 66mb compared with 60 odd Mb for Intellinav, what are your sizes? It doesn't matter that much really, the major annoyance with TomTom is if you have to cross a map border. Then you're on your own...
3. Fluidity is definitely better on TomTom, but then you shouldn't be playing around too much with the program while driving ;-)
4. I can see you've noticed the "odd" routes too. Hard to understand where they come from, since it doesn't have these problems in Europe and PocketMap doesn't either with a similar map databse.
5. Are you referring to the infamous "Lawrence Expressway" exit?
6. One thing that has to be given to TomTom too is the super high level of customization. A nice touch.

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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  01:06:41  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

Thanks for the detailed feedback.
1. The POI database didn't strike me as being that bad, but it is indeed similar to the one used by PocketMap Navigator and is not always very accurate/up to date.
2. Are the maps really smaller? I loaded CA and it was 66mb compared with 60 odd Mb for Intellinav, what are your sizes? It doesn't matter that much really, the major annoyance with TomTom is if you have to cross a map border. Then you're on your own...
3. Fluidity is definitely better on TomTom, but then you shouldn't be playing around too much with the program while driving ;-)
4. I can see you've noticed the "odd" routes too. Hard to understand where they come from, since it doesn't have these problems in Europe and PocketMap doesn't either with a similar map databse.
5. Are you referring to the infamous "Lawrence Expressway" exit?
6. One thing that has to be given to TomTom too is the super high level of customization. A nice touch.


1. I wasn't able to find several spots that are easily available from both Mapopolis and iGuidance. Take for example: Pier 39. I couldn't find it in POI categories that I believe it should belong. But maybe they classified it differently - I found Monterey Bay Aquarium under the ZOO category ... well, it seems right but somehow unintuitive. But I sure expected to find Pier 39 under either "Tourist Attractions" or " Ferry Terminals" but failed.

The point is, I want to be able to just input (part of) a POI name and search the address, like Mapopolis' implementation. There sure is a possible drawback of having to load huge POI DB(s) at once for searching but then again this can be worked around by allocating memory for certain numbder of categoies for searching and release the memory if not found and continue until the target is found or running out of POI categories/entries.

2. I have VA+NV with 75MB from TomTom vs. 113MB from iGuidance. Different regions may vary but since CA is a state of dense cities and streets so I figure it's a good sample to base on. I forgot how much storage space is required for CA alone. I'll double check.

3. Well, once in a while (when you most need it) you want to do a stopover or want to tap on the direction icon when you missed the voice prompt then it freezes for the most important moment ...

4. In fact, I had experienced instability when I first ran the version 2.22 that came with the CDs. I then went to TomTomUSA Web site and sure it is there's the latest updated version 2.24, which fixed the compatibility issue with Windows Mobil 2003 and the 2.22 version (hence 2.24, too), according to the release notes, tweaked the routing engine to generate better routes. One thing I can't seem to find is the ability to "avoid highways and roadblocks". How do you do that?

5. No. It's the other infamous "Grant St." exit on 280S which is supposed to be "Vine Ave/Almaden Blvd". Very confusing. Fortunately, the routing is as fast as Mapopolis and Routis.

6. True. The same goes to Mapopolis. However, I still find Routis to have the most streamlined and usable UI.

I'd think the combination of TomTom Navigator with:
(1) Map mode like Mapopolis;
(2) NavTech map data;
(3) POI and routing engine of Routis;
Would be a near perfect GPS application.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  01:33:47  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
yes or Intellinav with the fluidity of TomTom ;-)
Seriously I don't think we'll ever get the perfect solution, which might be a good thing after all.

The question could be: if you can only take one with you, which one would that be? I must say I'd have a hard time choosing between Intellinav, TomTom or CoPilot (if long distance routing is involved)...

PS - For roadblocks, you have to...draw them on the map, not very easy to do especially with the "legacy" (from CityMaps) map mode. Actually strike that, there now is a convenient roadblock feature based on mileage looky here. The instruction list (also legacy) should also be completely revamped. The lack of current street is also a major drawback for me.
To avaoid a highway, when in navigation mode, hit the screen and then the "Alternative Routes" icon shown here and you should be presented with a list of roads you can avoid or you can request an alternative itinerary too if you don't know the roads well.

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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  01:57:59  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It seems that you need to be in navigation mode AND have GPS fixed to be able to get alternative routes? I tried routing from SJ, CA to Disneyland by POI and when I got to the Alternative Routes page only the original route icon is available, the two others (alternative, rodablocks) are grayed out. What did I miss?

Yeah, the instruction list is cluttered but do you know that by clicking on any of the turns icon you can switch to a "turn-by-turn" mode with picture, just like you'd have from MapQuest, for example? This is kind of cool in case your GPS H/W is dead in the middle of nowhere or you forgot your GPS device in the car you can still get to the destination.

What's your test version number? The reason I said the routes are not "comfortable" was because they are not that bad, just not as close to my personal taste. You mentioned that the routes generated are not "optimal". What did you actually mean by that? Did you compare it to other GPS apps quantatatively (time/distance it takes to get to the destination)?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  02:23:41  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
1. Actually you need to launch the "Route Demo" mode (either from the Map Mode or one of the Navigator Menu Tabs). Then you can do all you can do with a GPS fix.

2. Yes that's all that CityMaps could do ;-) I recently discovered that you can even navigate in that mode with your position moving based on the GP fix. The navigation info isn't "live" though so it's got limited interest

3. I did upgrade to v2.24 but didn't run my test routes again. I will do that tomorrow morning (it's 2.20am in Paris...). I had based my previous comments on side by side comparisons with Mapopolis, PMN, Routis and CoPilot. The roads were really bad with TomTom suggesting a trip across the terrible 84 to go from San Jose to Pescadero, while all the other programs correctly route you through HMB. Also a trip to the South completely ignored 152 out of Gilroy routing instead over 580/205...

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freeway680

45 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  03:03:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can bear with the out of dated POI data but giving you an unfavorable rout is unacceptable to me. After all, the main thing for a navigator is giving a better route than what you normally take. If the routing is not accurate then it's automatically not a good software regardless of others such as UI, looks, or POI. Now I am 90% sure that I will buy routis instead of tomtom. I don't have the luxury of buying many softwares like you guys do but if you can only keep one, which one will it be? Tomtom, routis, mapopolis,etc?

thanks
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  10:32:43  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ok, ran my test routes with 2.24 and they're still as bad by default, hitting "Alternative Route" gives the correct route, but then that's something you should have to do. The good news is that it sounds like an easy fix for them (just switch the routes!), but the worrying part is that the correct route is over 20% in time what it should be. That's why the other route gets picked. I guess you could mess with the speed settings by road type, but again that's not something the average user should have to do!

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freeway680

45 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  15:34:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
for those of you who can't wait to see the real tomtom usa version screenshot, here is the link, enjoy

http://www.pocketgps.co.uk/tomtom2usapreview.asp

after viewing these screenshots, I have made my decision. routis is for me. I definitely don't want to keep hitting the alternate route everytime when using the tomtom software. I think routis would be a good start for me. By the way, gpspassion, I just emailed you about the club discount code for the routis software so please respond my email so I can get started. Can't wait

Guys, thank you so much for all the info that help me pick out a right software and hardware for my need. I will post my thought on how I like the globalsat and routis and my h2215 working together.
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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  16:40:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been using TomTom for a couple days now (v2.24). The routes its been giving me just going from my home to my office are definitely not optimal (which is only 7 miles). Using "Strict" calculation mode doesn't help either.

I've tried using the alternate route function and the routes actually keep getting worse. There is one place I commonly drive to, that is about 22 miles (and takes about 35 min). I tried using the alternate route function to "fix" the poor route it was giving me, and it just grew in length and time. So, I kept hitting the alternate route function, and the trip grew to 79 miles in length and 2 hours in time!!! This is a major flaw that needs to be fixed.

I also noticed TomTom had my house located in a non-existent location. My street T's into a major road, with my house being south of the main road. It had my house located north of the main road, where there is no street! Then there is my office. TomTom has all of the address numbers on that street reversed, so it has my office located about 1/3 mile from where it really is, and at the wrong end of the street. It seems that 2 words could fix these problems...NAVTECH DATA! (too bad they don't use it)

Its sad because it seems the program has lots of potential. I really like the overall looks, responsiveness and function of the program. I'm going to give it a couple more weeks, and then I might be sending the software back to TomTom.
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riuster

139 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  16:42:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
What does it mean.."IF YOU CROSS THE BORDER YOU ARE OUT OF LUCK", if you only have one section of the map on the cf card, that I understand, but what if you put all the maps on ROM mem and your cross from one section to the other section, you still cant do this?
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riuster

139 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  16:45:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
what do you mean...by if you cross the border you are out of luck, does this mean, if you have two sections in the card, and you cross the section, the map doesnt continue to the next section, is this TRUE?
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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  17:05:54  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by freeway680

for those of you who can't wait to see the real tomtom usa version screenshot, here is the link, enjoy

http://www.pocketgps.co.uk/tomtom2usapreview.asp

after viewing these screenshots, I have made my decision. routis is for me. I definitely don't want to keep hitting the alternate route everytime when using the tomtom software. I think routis would be a good start for me. By the way, gpspassion, I just emailed you about the club discount code for the routis software so please respond my email so I can get started. Can't wait

Guys, thank you so much for all the info that help me pick out a right software and hardware for my need. I will post my thought on how I like the globalsat and routis and my h2215 working together.



I hope that you are also aware of the navigation quirks discussed in this forum about Routis. In reality, confusing direction prompts given at the last minute is almost as bad as a bad route, maybe even worse - because it's dangerous.

I am going to send TomTom my feedback and see what they respond. I believe TomTom will be working hard to have this issue resolved.

Edited by - portus on 10 juil. 2003 17:07:35
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  18:13:00  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You'll have to switch maps manually so it means you can't have a route that spans several maps.

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ikesler

16 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  19:48:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been using the US Version for 2 days now as well....... and it is okay..... I do get bad routes and that is very frustrating. I have CoPilot Live as well and feel the routes are Better with Live, but still not great!
TT looks great and has a ton of functionality, but I keep getting screen lockups. Should I dld the 2.24 version? Or is that only for European TT?

Ian
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  19:57:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes 2.24 will help especially if you're running WM2003. I find CoPilot routes to be much better and also customizable (stop or waypoing) if they need some tweaking.

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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  20:09:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
does anyone have a link to the TomTom manual?
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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  22:18:49  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Here's a link to the PDF "Quick Start Guide": <http://www.tomtomusa.com/support/ce/downloads/quickstart.pdf>
And here's the link to the FAQ's: <http://www.tomtomusa.com/support/ce/support/navigator2.php?Language=4>
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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  22:27:39  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
BTW, I was surprised to find that at the same time they tidy up the support web pages, they actually pulled the free upgrade app and driver!
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riuster

139 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  22:30:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
In conclusion, TOMTOM bites the dust.......this is the feeling im getting, compared with intellinav.
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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  22:34:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think they still have the free upgrades if you go through the UK website.

I just emailed TomTom regarding the problems with their routing engine. We'll see if they respond, but I'm not holding my breath.
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riuster

139 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2003 :  22:41:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Why cant they just import that damn Sanyo portable DVD nav system that works with other DVD nav software....I still have a headache from all this talk
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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  06:43:20  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TeleAtlas has expressed an interest to me in working to resolve the bad routing problems w/ TomTom USA. Go to this topic:

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2527



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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  10:50:28  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nice move, but considering that PocketMap Navigator uses TeleAtlas maps too and calculates good routes in my tests, it's probably not a TeleAtlas problem...

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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  17:42:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Agreed, it is likely more of a problem with the TomTom routing engine. Even though, at least Teleatlas seems to be interested in working w/TomTom towards fixing the problem - or at least bringing to their attention that there is a real problem w/ the software. Obviously, Teleatlas has a vested interest in seeing TomTom succeed in the US. I have emailed my experiences with the bad routing to TomTom and have not gotten a response, so at least Teleatlas can act as a line of communication, if nothing else.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  18:00:23  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sure, let's also share our problem routes on the thread you started so we can compare with other programs to see how they perform.

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ikesler

16 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  18:44:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Again yesterday..... I had Navigated 5 routes and all of them took me way out of the way and onto a highway for about 1 mile........... of course I did not take any of the routes and hit alternate.... that seemed to fix it. Strange that is always the case! TT really is a highway favoring program for sure.

Ian
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  19:26:12  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, you can possibly fixing the speed in advaned settings. The worrying part is that while the Alernate Routes are OK, the ETA is way off, way too slow...

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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  20:13:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been trying to use the alternate route function to 'fix' the bad routing, but I'm not having much luck with that either. If I have a route planned, and then hit Alternate route, the new route might be a little better, but its still not 'correct', IMO. If I then keep hitting Alternate route, the route starts growing like crazy in both time and distance.

I also tried to change the road speed settings in the Advanced Properties, but this seems to have only made a little difference. I believe this is the key to the problem - TeleAtlas maps don't have speed data attached to the roads like Navtech maps do.
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jgahr

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  21:54:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So is this supposed to be working under WM 2003, iPaq H2215? I can't get it to do anything but freeze.

jgahr
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  21:56:23  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Download 2.24 herethat should help!

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jgahr

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  22:21:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I uninstalled everything since it crashed me several times. Do I need to install both the 2.24 and the 2.06 drivers? Can't believe I just got it today, was a beta tester, and natuarlly it caused hard resets immediately. Great isn't it?

jgahr
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jgahr

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  22:24:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
By the way, Thanks

jgahr
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  22:26:12  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sure ;-)
Just reinstall normally and then add 2.24 and 2.06. Let us know how it works.

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jgahr

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  23:08:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Once again you have been able to do what they haven't been able to accomplish, be concise in their communication and actually provide useful information. One last question, why are there multiple shortcuts in programs now (TomTom Navigator 2,TomTom Navigator 3). I will go in and change one name and kill the other, but it is kind of strange. If you ever get to Minneapolis, I owe you a beer.

jgahr
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  23:14:44  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I take it it works now? Great, thanks for the beer offer ;-)

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ikesler

16 Posts

Posted - 11 juil. 2003 :  23:30:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I also have been having freezes..... I am running it on my old Ipaq 3630 and every once in a while it just freezes....... I notice it mostly happens when it is calculating a route somewhere.... very frustrating, and the only way to get past it is to soft reset. I did get the 2.24 version and have it on there now..... still freezes.
The routes are still bad but the gps update seemeed to speed up my lock time a lot!!!!!

Ian
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qiyang

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 12 juil. 2003 :  00:51:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Can anyone clearify how the speed is treated differently in TeleAtlas and NevTech database? Gman, are you sure TeleAtlas does not associate freeways and streets with link specific speeds?

If speeds are defined only for road types (classes) and the database does not provide a way to "localize" the speeds for inividual links, getting bad routes is a certain thing because roads in the same class can still be very hertergenous. One possibile solution to reduce the impact of bad speed data and choosing a good route might be (1) use generalize cost rather than travel time or distance alone; (2) compare (if rule based) or combine (if scoring based on generalized cost) relative rather than the absolute difference in both travel time and distance between alternative routes .

From a local elementary school to my home, TomTom gives me a route (10.2 miles) consists of a short section of toll highway, an interstate highway, a state freeway, and a major arterial (but only one lane each direction) with lots of hills and curves. This recommended route is 4.5 miles (78%) longer than the route I use all the time, and according to TomTom's calculation, it would "saves" me 5 seconds, compared to the alternative route. The alternative route, which is about 5.7 miles, is happen to be the fastest and shortest.

Problems similar to the one demonstrated in the example above can be easily fixed if TomTom can try the method I suggested in the 2nd paragraph.

Sometimes TomTom's alternative routes were better than its original routes, but it is not always the case. In several tests, the original route TomTom recommended is good ones; in some other cases, both routes are bad. I am curious to know in what conditions it is good and what conditions it becomes bad, but it is hard to characterize. It seems that when possible routes between an OD pair are more or less uniform in road type, the route given by TomTom is reasonable; if there are roads of different road classes, TomTom tends to favor high class roads. But when I compare the default road speeds with that used in Microsoft Street and Trips, they are very similar. Then how could the routes they give can be very different and travel time estimate is way off for the same route? It must have a bug in the code or a flaw in the shortest path algorithm.

For those of us who purchased TomTom and these who are buying it now or later, the initial curisity of a good UI will soon fade; the excitement of its 3D look will also soon become less appealing because the world outside our car windows is a much better real 3D view . Who care about some flying 3D polygons which do not even have names? Even my 6-years boy lost interest in it after a few trips with me. As a navigator, what matters at the end is to give us good routes, if not the best. I wish TomTom developers will fix the routing problems before more customers become disappointed and decide to drop it from their PPCs. I guess many of us in this forums are willing to test their beta and even alpha versions before it releases the patch. Can someone from TomTom verify that they are listening and tell us whether there is a plan to fix the routing problem soon?
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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 12 juil. 2003 :  00:53:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
NEED SOME HELP

I have copilot 4.0 live and I wanted to use TomTom Nav with the Copilot GPS jacket and antenae. I am unable to get a GPS signal when using TOMTOM and I am not sure what to do.. When I hoot up the extenal antena it plug into the back of the Copilot jacket and I am not sure what settings need to be changed or where to make these changes.

Thanks in advance
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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 12 juil. 2003 :  00:55:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Another thing, has anyone heard back from TomTom regarding the routing trouble peole have mentioned here? How the alternate routes seem to be better
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 12 juil. 2003 :  01:36:55  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Let's discsuss specific routing probleme here, thanks ;-)
http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2527

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qiyang

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 12 juil. 2003 :  01:58:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by qiyang

quote:
Originally posted by paulkbiba


2. It has some very annoying quirks - all distances less than a mile are given in yards (who ever uses yards!); the map screen, as opposed to the navigation screen, does not do heading up, so it can be confusing at times; the navigation screen does not show the name of the road you are on or any of the intersecting roads, which I find unacceptable.


In the navigation view, the name of the road you are on is shown at the buttom of the screen (samll font, maybe 12pt). The next "significant" road (eg. freeways, arterials, etc) you are going to take is shown in large font at the top right. The voice instruction tells the type of your next turn (and the distance to that turn), such as left, right, or uturn. It would be helpful if it draws the name of the next street (or announce it with synthesized voice) in the navigation view.

If I had a choice between "3D" vs "head-up" map feature, I would pay for "head-up" map but get the "3D" view only if it is for free.



Yes. Paul and GpsPassion are right. Name of current street is missing on the navigation view. You have to tap the screen to see it on the "Navigator Menu" page.

I learned that you can turning off the 3D view. The 2D navigation view is basically a "Heading Up" navigation map, but without the street names. I wish it shows the names of the current street, the up coming cross street, and also some other major roads if space permits.
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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 12 juil. 2003 :  02:21:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gpspassion - can you move qiyang's and wallstreet's posts over there?

http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2527

Thanks.

Qiyang and wallsteet - I will answer your questions in the new thread...

Edited by - gman on 12 juil. 2003 02:23:04
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 12 juil. 2003 :  10:01:55  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well I can't move them due to the way the forums work, but I'll cut and paste ;-)

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jgahr

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 13 juil. 2003 :  00:45:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I thought the updated software for TomTom USA on the H2215 was working properly, but now I don't think so. First, the icon in Programs for TomTom Navigation was missing. The TomTom GPS icon came back with a "No Engine". Everything was loaded on an SD card, so the TomTom Navigator shortcut disappeared. The card was there, no issues with it. Then I started having severe problems with BlueTooth Syncing, which I've never had a problem with. Finally had to do a hard reset, a registry edit, just to get it back to status quo prior to loading TomTom. Anyone got any ideas? I like the software a lot, but not on a WM2003 machine. Hopefully a work around will come forward, but right now, I don't want to have to redo everything again, even though a backup 2x/day.

jgahr
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raaaaaa

USA
315 Posts

Posted - 13 juil. 2003 :  04:29:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well I got my Tom-Tom a couple of day ago and I must say that once you get familiar with the software it is impressive. The obvious problem with Tom-Tom is that it does tend to want to route you through highways.
My experience is similar to some on this board, the thing is that with the 3D view you can plainly see that there is a shorter route but the software sends you to a parkway or a highway. Is this really a bad thing well in my opinion Yes and No!

I was using copilot live before I got Tom-Tom and one problem it had was that it did the opposite, although not as bad as Tom-Tom but nevertheless it has its fault too. Like I said earlier I have the same problems as everybody else on the board, hell my Tom-Tom route me around the block to one of my common destinations, it literally send me to go around an entire block to a house when I can just make a right hand turn and 100 yards and I am there weird! My thing is that, these GPS software's are suppose to help us with addresses that we don't know how to get to not ones we already are familiar with. I just wanted to give my opinion.

Overall the Tom-Tom’s interface is really good if the fix the routing problem then this will be a Kick Ass program.
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jgahr

USA
15 Posts

Posted - 13 juil. 2003 :  05:24:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
After having an interesting chat with support@palmtopsoftware.com come to find out that this will work on the H2215, at least for tonight, as long as the Navigator, GPS & Voice are all loaded into main memory. I was able to sync BT again, and no crashes yet. I'll see tomorrow when I fire it up again, before I add backups. It would really be nice to load this on an SD card, since the H2215 has a little less memory, but it is ok for now. Has anyone else run into this? I didn't have to do this on the 5450, I always kept it on the SD with no issues. If anyone has a work around please advise. In the meantine support has pushed it to their lead team, We'll see what happens.

jgahr
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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 13 juil. 2003 :  21:56:35  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
TomTom Nav USA works reliably the first time after I upgraded to build 2.24 on my 2215. One annoyance was that sometimes the TomTom GPS driver confuses iGuidance GPS detection. On one occasion yesterday I had to soft reset and manually reassign GPS device setting by firing up TomTom GPS driver without loading TomTom Navigator to avoid freezing up the 2215. After that, both have been living happily together (knock on wood...)

On the side note, I have received *identical* replies as what gman got from TomTom regarding route quality. Interestingly enough, those seemingly "live" replies turn out to be "canned" ones readily prepared for different inqueries from the users. I hope they get their acts together and pay seirous attention to this sensitive issue and- fix it.

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 13 juil. 2003 :  22:09:37  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
huh...that doesn't look very good, but it's consitent with the "pleasant but uncommited" tone.

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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 13 juil. 2003 :  22:25:57  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

huh...that doesn't look very good, but it's consitent with the "pleasant but uncommited" tone.[/i]



We'll see ...

BTW, I saw your post on Project Mayo regarding PocketMVP alternative until they fix the WM2003 compatibility issue. Well, not that I know of, though. But I tried re-encoding some of my QuickTime and MPEG-1 video files with Windows Media 9 encoder to WMV files and the quiality and performance is quite bearable. At least the resulting file size is as good as (or better than) AVI (MPEG-4) videos.

For QT, you need a registered version to be able to export MPEG-4 QT to Windows AVI and then use WM9 encoder to get WMV files. I haven't been able to make WM9 encoder to recognize the DiVX-4 AVI files as input although I have the codec installed ...

Edited by - portus on 13 juil. 2003 22:26:25
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2003 :  00:24:14  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
OT, but thanks ;-)

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ikesler

16 Posts

Posted - 16 juil. 2003 :  00:20:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am getting more and more lockups of the screen and app. now. It seems to be happening while it is calculating the route....... have to soft reset the device to get out of it. Really Frustrating!

Ian
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 16 juil. 2003 :  00:22:52  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ouch, have you installed new programs on your PocketPC? What's your setup?

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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 16 juil. 2003 :  02:01:01  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ikesler

I am getting more and more lockups of the screen and app. now. It seems to be happening while it is calculating the route....... have to soft reset the device to get out of it. Really Frustrating!

Ian



Aside from making sure you have the latest build (v 2.24) and the driver (2.06), check to see that your GPS driver setting is not messed up. The safest thing to do is to fire up the GPS driver directly from the System tab of the Settings dialog, without starting TomTom Navigator. Exit the driver after you fix it (if necessary) then load TomTom Nav. There should be no problems.
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ikesler

16 Posts

Posted - 16 juil. 2003 :  18:33:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I do have the latest builds....... and the gps setup is correct I think. If I go to it in Settings...... I get a lock within 10-25 seconds, from cold start..... so I think that is pretty good. For some reason I just keep gettting lock ups....... perhaps a re-install?

Ian
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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 16 juil. 2003 :  21:33:10  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ikesler

I do have the latest builds....... and the gps setup is correct I think. If I go to it in Settings...... I get a lock within 10-25 seconds, from cold start..... so I think that is pretty good. For some reason I just keep gettting lock ups....... perhaps a re-install?

Ian



I don't recall you mentioned your device. Are you using a WM2003 OS device (whether it's a new model or an upgraded one)?

If so, you may want to check other software/driver you have installed. One of them could be affecting the stability of your device. Also, do you have multiple GPS software installed?
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ikesler

16 Posts

Posted - 16 juil. 2003 :  23:02:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ipaq 3760...... but just realized that I still have LIVE installed on my device!!!! Forgot to delete it..... There are no maps other than TT on my CF Card but LIVE is in program memory, maybe that is doing it!

Ian
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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 17 juil. 2003 :  03:31:44  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I was pleasantly surprised to find that TomTom Navigator USA is the only GPS software out of the three I am actively testing that does the routing correctly via the quarter-cloverleaf, two branch off-ramp (Saratoga Ave) going 280S from SJ downtown to somewhere in Cupertino, CA. Mapopolis, iGuidance/Routis both incorrectly routes me to take the first branch off the exit then make an almost impossible merge into the inner-most lane on a 4-lane busy traffic then make a U-turn noto S. Saratoga Ave. TomTom routes correctly via the second branch off the exit circling the quarter-cloverleaf directly onto S. Saratoga Ave. Although it first routes me to the next exit, I hit alternative and then it gives me this route.

This proves that TomTom USA has lots of potential to be a top-notch GPS solution at least on par with Routis/iGuidance - IF the routing bugs are fixed in both products.

I am eagerly awaiting the fix ...
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 17 juil. 2003 :  11:05:38  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This cloverleaf brings back memories since I took each day for about 3 years when driving back from work in SJ ;-) but is that really the best Cupertino exit? Yes you don't want to take #1. Strange thing is I don't remember Mapopolis, Intellinav, PocketMap or even Destinator trying to get me to take it.
We are talking about the Saratoga exit on 280 NORTH, right? It should indeed be called South, but 280 is called north when you drive out of SJ...

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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 17 juil. 2003 :  19:58:05  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

This cloverleaf brings back memories since I took each day for about 3 years when driving back from work in SJ ;-) but is that really the best Cupertino exit? Yes you don't want to take #1. Strange thing is I don't remember Mapopolis, Intellinav, PocketMap or even Destinator trying to get me to take it.
We are talking about the Saratoga exit on 280 NORTH, right? It should indeed be called South, but 280 is called north when you drive out of SJ...



Yeah, you're right. I meant 280 North and I definitely didn't mean to say that the exit is the best off Cupertino (actually, it'd be a lame exit off Cupertino). What I tried to describe was that as soon as you decide to take the exit, only TomTom correctly routes me through the quarter-cloverleaf instead of the awkward and dangerous first branch off the exit.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 17 juil. 2003 :  20:30:13  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ok, makes sense. I think I see what you mean. I think the instructions are correct (2nd exit)with other programs, but they then get confused in the cloverleaf. Is that it?

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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 17 juil. 2003 :  23:29:25  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

ok, makes sense. I think I see what you mean. I think the instructions are correct (2nd exit)with other programs, but they then get confused in the cloverleaf. Is that it?



I think I am not as good in explainging what I meant.

Other programs will route me through the 1st exit, totally ignoring the (correct and safe) 2nd exit. Routis/iGuidance does even worse in this respect - as soon as it recognizes I am onto the 2nd exit, it wants me to make a U-turn (and then another, I believe) as I finishes circling the quarter-colverleaf, which is plain roundabout routing!
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 17 juil. 2003 :  23:39:02  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No you were quite clear, I was just trying to remember the problems I'd noticed whith other programs ;-)

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portus

129 Posts

Posted - 18 juil. 2003 :  20:28:39  Show Profile  Visit portus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sad to say that I found another glitch that again proves Tele Atlas map data being out-of-date in general, comapred to NavTech map data.

To suit topic, I'll be reporting my experience in the "Tele Atlas Needs Your Help" thread ...
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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  03:59:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've been trying to do a Demo Route on a trip that I've planned 'offline' (w/o GPS unit). It's not working and I keep getting this pop-up box error..."Unable to start demonstration (2)". Does anybody know whats up with this? Has anybody else had problems w/ the Demo Route function?

Thanks.

- gman
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  04:43:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
This isn't a problem, this is a "feature". You can't do a demonstration route unless the GPS is enabled and has a lock. It's really dumb. When I was doing the review, which will be posted soon, I had to keep running back and forth from the computer to the PDA outside the house to check the screen (then I'd forget what was on the screen and have to run outside again).
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qiyang

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  15:38:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gman

I've been trying to do a Demo Route on a trip that I've planned 'offline' (w/o GPS unit). It's not working and I keep getting this pop-up box error..."Unable to start demonstration (2)". Does anybody know whats up with this? Has anybody else had problems w/ the Demo Route function?



I had the same error if GPS receiver was not connected, but if I had the CF receiver plugged in the slot (no need for getting a fix), the route demo worked fine.
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  16:39:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Interesting. On my machine it requires a fix before it will do the demo route. I've tried it 6 or 7 times and it just won't do it without one!
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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  20:29:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah, it worked when I got a fix in my car. And yes, this really doesn't make any sense. Seems to me, the whole point of the Demo route should be to view the route 'offline'.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  22:18:13  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Don't jump to conclussions without experimenting ;-) just check the box in the GPS module with any kind of connection (COM1 for example) you will be able to start the demo and create alternate routes, etc...

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  23:01:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sorry, not on my machine. It wants a card in the slot and the card has to have a fix!
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  23:05:36  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
very strange, it works both on my Dell and 3970. What does it do if you select NMEA/4,800 and COM1 and check the box? Doesn't it become "gray"?

PS - Can you log into MSN?

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  23:14:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm still at work so I can't try MSN. Will be home in about an hour. When I hit Demonstrate route it comes up with a screen that tells me that the GPS position is unreliable, and when I tap the screen it kicks me back to the map.
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qiyang

USA
21 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  23:43:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I tested the "Demonstrate route" again. It worked as I described in previous message. The receiver had not got a fix because I was testing it in a building and the GPS driver was not started. More interesting is that the route demo, with vocal instruction, keeps working even after I have unplugged the receiver. It only needs the receiver to start the demo.

I do not know if hardware combination makes any difference, but I am using a Holux CF card type GPS receiver on a Toshiba e740.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2003 :  23:48:32  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ok, did you try without a GPS with the configuration I described above?
In fact I tried it again and in v2.24 you don't even need to use that trick. What versions are you running?

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 24 juil. 2003 :  00:18:17  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ok, it's still not automatic in v2.23 but using the COM1 trick works each time for me.

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 27 juil. 2003 :  12:31:11  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
In case you've missed it, a little scoop!
http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=64

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dfischer

95 Posts

Posted - 28 juil. 2003 :  19:58:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the review.

I don't care that it costs a bit more if it meets my needs and had correct data.

Do you have any insight on future enhancements? No track up, poor routing, and limited display of road names, are kinda bad things. Certainly deal breakers.

And, as a FWIW, I too consider mapquest to generate the most "usable" routes around. That said, I've seen mapopolis generate flawed routes.

Finally, what is the installed base and general acceptance of this data base? I thought nav-tech was dominating the market space..

Thanks,

dan



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gman

USA
320 Posts

Posted - 28 juil. 2003 :  21:02:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dfischer


And, as a FWIW, I too consider mapquest to generate the most "usable" routes around. That said, I've seen mapopolis generate flawed routes.

Finally, what is the installed base and general acceptance of this data base? I thought nav-tech was dominating the market space..

Thanks,

dan



I have to agree regarding Mapquest. Before I started GPSing, I always used Mapquest to plan my routes, and they were usually very accurate - from door to door (95% of the time). Too bad we can't combine the routing algorithms of Mapquest w/ Routis or Mapopolis (although, I'd say they are already pretty close).

I believe Navtech does dominate the US marketplace. I'm not sure how long TeleAtlas has been involved in the GPS nav business in the US...perhaps Gpspassion knows?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 29 juil. 2003 :  00:27:46  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
About routes, I'm preparing a little "shoot-out" and have found that the program that came up with the best routes is Intellinav.

dfisher - it does have track up in the navigator mode which is absolutely stunning. The map mode is NOT designed for navigation but rather for trip plannig or pedestrian trips. I'd better "ed" that to clarify! Ok fixed! Road name display is a choice and if that's what it takes for the "fluidity" it's fine by me. I've never foud this to be a problem while navigation.

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6pack

7 Posts

Posted - 01 août 2003 :  23:28:29  Show Profile  Visit 6pack's Homepage  Reply with Quote
One thing I found out Gigabar and TomTom are not compatible. While Gigabar was installed, I could not switch out of navigator, and menus would disappear.

Anyone have suggestions on a Gigabar replacement that's compatible with TomTom? Something that can manage apps as easily and can put a battery indicator at the top?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 02 août 2003 :  00:07:38  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I use Dashboard and Wisbar 1.10 and it works like a charm ;-)

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ikesler

16 Posts

Posted - 02 août 2003 :  00:17:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I use Wisbar as well with no problems.....:)

Ian
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6pack

7 Posts

Posted - 05 août 2003 :  00:28:28  Show Profile  Visit 6pack's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Two things I'd really like to see...

When navigating highways, I can see which highway is coming up (I-95) on the top of the screen, but it doesn't tell me highway direction (I-95N or I-95S). This is especially helpful on sharp turn offs where the turn is off the screen and I can't see which way I need to go. And sometimes when the exit is complicated, the stay to the right and stay to the left isn't as helpful as knowing if I'm supposed to go N or S.

The other thing I'd like to see is for when you're coming to your destination, it should tell which side the road the destination is on. It could be an extra option to check off to try and predict which side of the road the destination is on (which should be easy for the program to determine because of the house number). I've often missed my destination because it was on the other side of the road.
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ikesler

16 Posts

Posted - 05 août 2003 :  20:21:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I completely agree!
The Highway problem is a big one...... I was travelling last weekend extensively on highways and it was very difficult to figure out if I was going N,S,E,or W. I had to slow way, way down in order to have the navigation clear enough on the screen to make the turn off correctly........ this is a real problem I think.


Ian
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 05 août 2003 :  22:56:31  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes good point. That's something you don't encounter in Europe but having lived in the US for 5 years, I'd agree it's a NEED info!

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6pack

7 Posts

Posted - 07 août 2003 :  18:47:53  Show Profile  Visit 6pack's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well I copied my same post and sent it to TomTom's support, and they've got a lot of other comments on the highway direction, and they hinted that it might be an upcoming feature. I think a few other emails from customers and it'll be pushed in for sure. I've been very pleased with their support and customer interaction, I am very glad I've purchased.
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ikesler

16 Posts

Posted - 07 août 2003 :  22:37:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 6pack

I think a few other emails from customers and it'll be pushed in for sure. I've been very pleased with their support and customer interaction, I am very glad I've purchased.



I think you are right with the more emails the faster the fix...... And I too am quite pleased with program right now. I have gotten a little more used to it, and it's shortcomings..... and I have recieved an email back every time that I have sent in a suggestion or comment..... that is good business and I think will only make a good product better!

Ian
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riuster

139 Posts

Posted - 08 août 2003 :  05:47:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Does anyone want to buy my tomtom USA and europe at the end of August?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 08 août 2003 :  11:10:10  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
This is not the right place to ask, please post to buy and sell and I will edit here.

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