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Kex
USA
190 Posts |
 Posted - 14 juin 2012 : 00:39:26
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You're absolutely right, gpspassion. Those who constantly tout free mapping with traffic (such as Google today) on a smartphone as an equivalent (or better) solution for hard core commuters to HD Traffic on a TomTom (not to mention IQ Routes) probably have no idea what they are talking about. It's not surprising a WSJ article would make the same mistake, even if it's not very good reporting (research for the article is only scratching the surface). There are obviously some seasoned contributors here who know a lot more about the topic than the author.
Perhaps TomTom want HD Traffic to remain a paid service, and perhaps even unique to TomTom app users. That might explain why Waze might (pure speculation at this point, it seems) be providing integrated traffic information so that Apple can still offer something equivalent to what Google maps offer on an iPhone or Android today. TomTom may also have been more than reluctant to offer any access to the secrets of HD Traffic to Apple ... understandably in my opinion, given how difficult it has been, apparently, for even Garmin (a much larger company, with very profitable marine and aviation revenues) to attempt to duplicate the success of HD Traffic (or IQ Routes, for that matter, from what I understand). |
TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired) |
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offthegrid
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 14 juin 2012 : 01:28:20
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I'm really hoping TomTom is able to incorporate Siri into their Apple Nav program. That imo is hands down the best voice recognition software out there.
Apple had to have access to TomTom software at the base level in order to incorporate some of the integration.
Just buy TomTom. |
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wco81
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 14 juin 2012 : 15:27:18
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So many issues to discuss here.
First I welcome turn-by-turn, because I'm getting more disenchanted with my Nuvi and it's good to have alternatives.
Second, there is so much room for improving the user experience over PNDs that it's great Apple and Google are diving in. Better hardware (faster processors, more RAM, GPU acceleration and capacitive touch screens) as well as the chance to integrate things like Siri has the potential to revolutionize how users interact with navigation devices.
Third, I have some doubts that the new maps will be as comprehensive as Google's not so much in road information but in POIs and local businesses. Someone noted that in the iOS 6 beta, it was missing a lot of public parks near Apple itself!
Google took years to refine its maps with local data, including Street View and all the info. about businesses. I really wonder if iOS maps will be nearly as comprehensive. I can say that searching businesses on Maps.app not only returns more accurate results and is faster and a better UI than say searching for POIs on a Nuvi. Maybe TeleAtlas maps fare better, especially in Europe, but I suspect it's still not going to be at the same level as Google.
I hope that Google continues to offer its map content on iOS devices in some way. EIther a dedicated app or improve its web app (where I couldn't even access my custom Google maps). But when it's no longer integrated into the OS, of course it will be disadvantaged. For instance, I used TripAdvisor app. quite a bit in Europe and it uses embedded Bing Maps, which can't even show your current location relative to the restaurant or attraction you're trying to find. |
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danham
USA
7347 Posts |
Posted - 14 juin 2012 : 17:17:41
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Interesting points raised here and I find myself nodding in agreement with most of them.
But there is one area where standalone GPS units still own the market and that's pre-planned routing. As a motorcyclist I could never use my iPhone for this and my zumo does it beautifully.
I love using my iPhone to find POIs, especially in pedestrian use. There's no mystery why they are much more accurate than the ones embedded in GPS units: constant updating, not once, twice or four times a year. So I'll keep using my nuvi and zumo and keep the iPhone for emergency GPS backup and fresh data.
The big question this raises is whether Garmin in particular (and Tom Tom, which dropped out of the motorcycle market in the US) will acknowledge and serve this segment of users, regardless of vehicle, who want to plan their trips in detail, or continue to dumb down their devices, making them less and less suitable for pre-planned routing. If I were an iOS developer, I'd be watching that one very carefully. Yes, it's a niche, but that's what they said about Apple a few years ago.
-dan |
- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '10 Jetta TDI Diesel SportWagen & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA
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Edited by - danham on 14 juin 2012 17:18:33 |
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wco81
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 14 juin 2012 : 18:02:01
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True, preplanning can be useful, but I think it's more needed on the PND because it's so awful to search or program the PND itself.
That is, it's a much more awkward and slower process to tap out place names on the Garmin than doing a map search on the iPhone.
So I've saved custom favorites using the browser plugin with Google Maps and with BaseCamp on my Mac but even that process, managing the favorites on the Garmin, is not the smoothest experience.
Now, maybe preplanning is really useful if you plan routes on the computer and then send them to the PND. But I haven't done too much with this and have to admit that it's not too hard to set a waypoint on the fly if you want to divert through a different route.
For instance, on my recent trip, I was in Ravenna, Italy and wanted to go to Ferrara, a town to the NW of Ravenna. The tourist information office said normally, the fastest way would be to go north up the coast and then go west, because these were the highways. I'd researched it on Viamichelin and it showed that same route as normally the fasted.
But this was a hot Sunday afternoon and the tourist info. person said there would be a lot of traffic along the coast because people would be trying to get to the beaches. So she suggested taking backroads which headed directly northwest. It was shorter but on roads which had only one lane in each direction.
So I let the Nuvi calculate the route and zoomed out (a real slow process which would be improved by faster mobile devices) and could see that it was the north and then west route. I chose as a waypoint a town to the NW, which would guarantee that it would route through the NW route.
Preplanning or loading a custom route would have helped but really, the route chosen was impromptu, based on info I got from the local. So you can't alway use preplanning to your advantage, other than perhaps as a way to minimize or circumvent using the sluggish UI on the PND.
That said, maybe Siri integration will improve the experience, give you a choice of routes or if it ties into local information and weather well, it will be able to find POIs more easily. |
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larryc
USA
224 Posts |
Posted - 15 juin 2012 : 02:42:50
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| Buried in the fine print of the press releases: IOS 6 will only support turn-by-turn spoken navigation on iPhone 4s (NOT iPhone 4!) |
Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android |
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offthegrid
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 15 juin 2012 : 03:00:04
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The want everyone to buy a new iPhone.
One thing here that isn't so obvious is that Nokia is in an extreme state of stress. They just announced 10,000 new layoffs. Navteq is getting hammered because they are a part of that sinking ship.
No one wants to partner with Navteq because they are part of Nokia and now Microsoft to some extent.
TomTom will garner every other cell company and this also gives them a foot in the door with all the car companies that are putting a Siri button on their steering wheels which was most every car company except Ford, Nissan and some smaller ones.
I believe Apple now has an option to buy TomTom and all they have to do is pull the trigger. |
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gpspassion
93427 Posts |
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Kex
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 15 juin 2012 : 17:16:17
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That's quite mediocre, especially the voice and absence of map detail. The French pronunciation is well behind current TomTom products in my opinion.
I did notice that the service provider is Sunrise 3G. Is that a Swiss operator? I would guess this must be a leaked beta of some description, so probably not a very reliable indication of what the final product will be. |
TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired) |
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offthegrid
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 17 juin 2012 : 18:29:45
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That 2D viewing format isn't too impressive. I wonder if this free version has IQRoutes?
I'm hoping that the TomTom app gains access to SIRI and that TomTom has access to all the new probes they'll have. That 100 million POIs would also be great. |
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wco81
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 17 juin 2012 : 18:38:41
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Hoe would you guys compares the TomTom POIs to the Google Maps data set?
I would say Google is better than Garmin's/Navteq. Certainly a lot easier and faster to search. |
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Kex
USA
190 Posts |
Posted - 17 juin 2012 : 19:08:11
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it's a little off topic, but TomTom's POI locations are sufficient in my opinion, if you're lost. I just tried them recently in a smallish town where I was not familiar with the area. I did get to a few places that weren't there, or weren't exactly where they were supposed to be, but I did find what I wanted eventually. A familiar scenario for most (all?) PND users, and somewhat frustrating. However, if you have TomTom LIVE Services, the connected local search function included with that integrates seamlessly with the navigation functions of the device, making the limitations of the official POI data pretty much meaningless. I don't think the POI data is as complete as Google maps search, though.
I'd also say that it's easier to use Google maps for search on a decent smartphone, so hopefully, the POI options with iOS 6 will also be better than the TomTom or Navteq. How does the current TomTom app for iPhone integrate with the search functions of the phone? Maybe it'll be a moot point. |
TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired) |
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Dewi
621 Posts |
Posted - 17 juin 2012 : 20:46:29
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quote:
Originally posted by offthegrid
TomTom will garner every other cell company and this also gives them a foot in the door with all the car companies that are putting a Siri button on their steering wheels which was most every car company except Ford, Nissan and some smaller ones.
Why do you say except Ford? Ford is actually ahead of the game in this respect, as they already equip their newer models with Sync AppLink which would allow their voice command button to work with Siri with the "flick of a switch". |
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gpspassion
93427 Posts |
Posted - 18 juin 2012 : 20:26:36
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quote:
Originally posted by wco81
Hoe would you guys compares the TomTom POIs to the Google Maps data set?
I would say Google is better than Garmin's/Navteq. Certainly a lot easier and faster to search.
There's no comparison really :
1. Google off-board POIs : full text search, everything and the kitchen sink, not always properly placed (automatic geocoding)
2. TeleAtlas/TomTom on-board POIs : cumbersome search by category (yes you can do a text search now but it's slow), placed by TeleAtlas map makers in theory.
Having said that, TomTom seem to be pushing a "TomTom Places" service now in Europe : http://places.tomtom.com/ that is clearly trying to compete with Google Local, or whatever it's called now, and would take care of the full search and server lookups.
The irony is that people may have to buy the TomTom Navigator software for iOS to maintain access to the Google POI search...
@offthegrid - Since the iOS 6 GPS app is server based, I see no problem having IQ Routes data residing on the server. |
Discounts and Assistance/Réductions et Assistance (Club GpsPasSion) / Où commencer? |
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offthegrid
USA
398 Posts |
Posted - 18 juin 2012 : 21:39:23
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The head of mobile applications at Inrix debunks the myth that Waze is providing routing and traffic, several blogs have said incorrectly that Waze is providing the traffic and routing which as we know is wrong.
intomobilequote:
Kevin Foreman:
Actually Waze is providing map data only, No traffic data.
https://twitter.com/#!/kforeman
quote:
Originally posted by Dewi
quote:
Originally posted by offthegrid
TomTom will garner every other cell company and this also gives them a foot in the door with all the car companies that are putting a Siri button on their steering wheels which was most every car company except Ford, Nissan and some smaller ones.
Why do you say except Ford? Ford is actually ahead of the game in this respect, as they already equip their newer models with Sync AppLink which would allow their voice command button to work with Siri with the "flick of a switch".
This article shows what Ford not working with Apple means.
http://gigaom.com/apple/ford-versus-apple-siri-versus-sync-over-connected-car/
The big red flag is navigation. When you ask Siri for directions, it isn’t accessing Ford’s own vehicle nav system and services; rather it’s tapping into Apple’s new Maps service (also unveiled at WWDC). The other features, such as dictating text messages, playing stored music, and reading back notifications seem innocuous enough, since they tap into the iPhone’s core functions, not competing services’. But Sync replicates all of these features through its own voice commands, and Ford has every interest in keeping those features in its dashboard rather than ceding them to the iPhone.
Ford won’t make revenue off a dictated email, but it will off its own core in-vehicle navigation, information and entertainment services. Ford is also turning Sync into a platform, inviting third-party developers like Pandora, Stitcher and most recently MOG to develop apps that take advantage not only of Sync’s voice-command capabilities but the console display and dashboard controls.
If Ford, however, gives up even basic functions like message notifications to Siri, it basically starts ceding its platform, becoming a peripheral set of speakers and display to the iPhone. |
Edited by - offthegrid on 19 juin 2012 02:58:03 |
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[TOPIC] Apple Maps GPS on iOS 6 with TomTom data
