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 TomTom AIO Forums - www.GOTomTom.com
 Live Services in the U.S.A.
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Kex

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 15 avr. 2011 :  20:53:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't think we have a thread dedicated to this topic yet, so I'm starting this one to inform those interested of the following:

You may already know that the new GO 2535M Live will have one year of included Live Services, instead of the three months included with older models (such as my XL340S Live). What you may not know is that, according to a PCMag article, now "confirmed" by "staff" in the TomTom "discussions" forum, the subscription will soon be offered at $60 per year, not $120 (as it is now). It is not currently known whether this new price will also be made available to existing subscribers with older units (like myself).

http://discussions.tomtom.com/t5/LIVE-Services-HD-Traffic-and/Can-Tomtom-confirm-59-95-LIVE-services-for-USA/td-p/16059
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2383479,00.asp

Thanks to mvl for posting this question on the TomTom forum.

TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired)

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jonstrong

USA
42 Posts

Posted - 16 avr. 2011 :  04:50:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just saw the pc mag piece earlier -- glad to see that the annual rate was confirmed! At $120, I was wondering how I'd feel about renewing at the end of my one year prepaid service. For $5 a month, I don't see having any problem with this at all assuming HD traffic works as well as it would seem to be working for early adopters (in the US)...

- Jon

Tomtom Go 2535M Live - & - Garmin Nuvi 755t
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Kex

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 16 avr. 2011 :  18:50:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you had asked me my opinion two months ago, when Live Services was still using TrafficCast information (Yahoo! maps still use this), I would have said:

- In Los Angeles, the $10 per month was possibly (even probably) worth it. We have been paying it for a year already, after the three month trial period, and it has seemed to help just enough to keep on paying. Other cities might experience varying degrees of success.

- IQ Routes was the real magic of TomTom traffic avoidance, and far more important to have than Live Services, although Live Services certainly wouldn't hurt. It probably accounts for 75% of the success of the existing system of traffic avoidance in my opinion.

- Free traffic from Total Traffic Network (TM or T model TomToms) would probably yield results good enough for 50-75% of users, and would be an acceptable alternative for those that simply thought $120 a year was not justified. You can have free traffic and still use IQ Routes.

Right now, if you'd ask me my opinion, I'd say that the new TomTom traffic service is beyond what I expected so far and I certainly expect to continue paying the $10 per month. If it continues to improve, it could potentially become equally important to IQ Routes as part of successful traffic avoidance ... at least here in Los Angeles where it's a serious problem (and any improvement feels like a miracle).

Originally, in our three vehicles, I intended to use one Live Services device (heavy commute traffic every day in some of the worst affected areas), and one TM device (not usually in use during peak traffic times in any of the worst affected areas). Now, with this price reduction (whenever it becomes "certain"), I'm not only giving serious consideration to replacing the XL 340S Live with a GO 2535M Live, but I'm also considering replacing the XL 340TM with another Live device. In fact, I might even buy a third device for the truck (occasional use only). Three Live subscriptions - on three different devices - for $15 per month, seems a small premium compared to just one Live subscription - on one of two different devices - for $10 per month.

The traffic information is the only reason I would pay the subscription. Fuel prices, Google local search, and the other services, although useful indeed (and some are now provided at no charge anyway) are just "cherry on the cake" in my opinion, but not valid reasons to justify the current, $10 subscription.

TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired)
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jonstrong

USA
42 Posts

Posted - 17 avr. 2011 :  16:05:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
If you go to the TomTom website, navigate (only appropriate!) to the 2535M Live page and select "accessories", the only one that shows at the moment is the "USB Lifetime Traffic Receiver". I'm guessing this is due to the need to clean up the website: no USB connection on the 2535 itself, and I'm totally unclear about whether the 2535M Live can make use of the additional traffic data - or if it would help or compromise the experience for the user, i.e., does the device "know" how to mix the two different sources of traffic data, weight the Live data more heavily, etc?


- Jon

Tomtom Go 2535M Live - & - Garmin Nuvi 755t
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Kex

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 17 avr. 2011 :  17:43:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Jon, on the XL 340S Live, the lifetime traffic receiver (with a USB connection and free traffic information from Total Traffic Network) will be recognized and will work. I have only ever tried it with the XL 340S Live when the Live Services subscription was not active, however. The Total Traffic Network information simply substitutes itself seamlessly for the Live Services information, and you get the same:

1) Traffic bar on the right side of the screen displaying delay information (if any),

2) Ability to "browse map" of your area to show all traffic incidents, even those not on your route. You can do this with Live Services for any city in the country, if I recall correctly. I'm not sure whether that works with T.T.N.

3) The same pop-up messages indicating that a faster route has been found, asking whether you want to change to the faster route (this depends on how the unit has been set up - automatically switching to the faster route with no message is also an option).

So, any device with Live Services MAY work with lifetime traffic services IF it has the correct connection to physically be attached to the device. I doubt that both services will work together, however. I may try this later and post back.

The question is how the device handles the RDS-FM connector being attached to a device with an active Live Services subscription: does it ignore the Live Services traffic, or does it ignore the Total Traffic Network information? I don't know the answer to that at this point. It's an interesting discussion, just "for the heck of it", but I wouldn't be interested in attaching the lifetime traffic receiver to a Live PND other than to see whether or not it worked. I would anticipate a deterioration in traffic avoidance performance, but it's too early in the life of HD traffic information in the U.S. for me to be certain of that. Since you already have one year of Live Services available to you, it should be a lot more obvious by then where things stand (things have changed a lot over the last twelve months, so the next twelve months should be sufficient for evaluating the performance of the new service).

TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired)
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jonstrong

USA
42 Posts

Posted - 18 avr. 2011 :  03:33:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Assuming the Total Traffic Network is what my Nuvi 755T uses as its "free" lifetime traffic feed, I'm counting on Live Traffic being significantly better than TTN. With my Nuvi, free traffic is a tease. Near major population centers, I see occasional traffic warnings. Nine out of ten times it seems the traffic report if off in terms of time or degree: the traffic jam is either unreported, understated, overstated or just gone by the time I get to the reported location. A few times, the Nuvi rerouted me to avoid the traffic jam, with the resulting route seeming to be through a rats maze of local roads; your reports (and others) all give me reason to believe that IQ Routes will handle rerouting more effectively. I had to cancel my NJ to Maryland trip for tomorrow, but still hope to try a couple of routes that will exercise Live traffic this week. If combining Live and TTN would just compromise the Live traffic processing, I'd certainly avoid it...and if Live traffic lives up to expectations, and really comes in at $5/month, I can imagine keeping up a subscription for the foreseeable future.

- Jon

Tomtom Go 2535M Live - & - Garmin Nuvi 755t
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Kex

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 18 avr. 2011 :  20:02:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Actually, I think (but I may be wrong) that the nüvi 755T uses Navteq traffic with the included FM receiver, not TTN. Garmin devices have used both, depending on the receiver purchased or included with the device. In fact, it may even be possible to purchase a subscription to either service separately as well.

Navteq traffic is not bad here in Los Angeles, from what I can determine, but I couldn't say if it's better or worse than TTN. They are both limited to major roads (and even some of those get left out), but the problems you described are what most users of the free traffic services complain about. One difference worth noting between TomTom and Garmin, however, is that TomTom do not use any pop-up adds.

As far as I know, TomTom HD traffic gets updated every two minutes, whereas TTN traffic only gets updated every fifteen minutes (and even then, problem areas seem to remain listed as problems for suspiciously long periods of time). Whether I am correct or not, I can say that I have found TomTom HD traffic information to be far more dynamic since the change from TrafficCast. Maybe we're just getting lucky here in L.A. (with a sufficient number of probes or something), but hopefully not.

TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired)
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Kex

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 12 mai 2011 :  19:12:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Updated my XL 340S Live today using TomTom Home, and:

- Live services subscription now offered at $60 for one year.
- No monthly option seems to be available.

So, while it used to be possible to subscribe monthly (as recently as yesterday, according to the subscription reminder message I received directly on the unit itself), the cost was $10 per month, $60 for six months, and $120 for a year. TomTom have wasted no time in applying the new subscription price, advertised for the newest GO 2535 Live, to the older XL 340S Live (or XL 340TM Live). It's a pity, perhaps, that they did not keep the monthly option, or a six month option at the very least, for people like me who are probably going to get the GO 2535 before the end of the year. I might inquire with Customer Service to see if any unused subscription period could be transferred to a new device (and added on to the end of the free trial period on any such new device).

At this price, however, and having noticed recent improvements in traffic information on the XL 340S Live (much better than the old TrafficCast traffic information in my opinion), I will not be canceling my Live Services subscription any time soon.

TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired)
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jonstrong

USA
42 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2011 :  00:13:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great to see TomTom making progress in general. MyTomTom is recently updated, and as of today, new App software was made available for the 2545 M Live (and other models I imagine). Update was about 60mb and took a total of 5 mins, including device restart.

MyTomTom page on the website now shows a Latest Map Guarantee box (mine is up to date) as well as software update box, so it would appear that maps are now working for the 2535 series through MyTomTom (along with POI management). Not 100% yet, but making progress! Still really loving my 2535 M Live. I want them to finish / polish it off, but I wouldn't return it for another device at this point - very happy with it overall.

- Jon

Tomtom Go 2535M Live - & - Garmin Nuvi 755t
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davidt

USA
68 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2011 :  16:38:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From TWICE (this week in consure lectronics)
By Joseph Palenchar -- TWICE, 5/12/2011


New York - TomTom plans to license out its cellular-delivered HD (High Density) Traffic service to other consumer-product companies for use in OEM and aftermarket navigation systems, smartphones, competing-brand portable navigation devices (PNDs), and other CE devices.

Co-founder/CEO Harold Goddjin also announced yesterday the Netherlands-based company will offer the technology to government agencies and enterprises with fleets of vehicles as part of what it calls its long-term "Mission to Reduce Traffic For All."

The service is already available in 18 other countries, mostly in Europe, and has reduced travel times in those countries by up to 15 percent, Goddjin said.

Also to boost U.S. takeup of HD Traffic, TomTom:

· extended the service, previously available only on the new $349-suggested GO 2535 M LIVE, to two other previously available cellular-equipped PNDs. Those models, the GO 740 LIVE and XL 340 LIVE, previously received a less robust traffic service.

· reduced the price of cellular-delivered GO LIVE service, which includes traffic data, to an annual $59.95, a 50 percent reduction. Like before, a free 12-month subscription is included with the purchase of a compatible TomTom PND.

LIVE services include Google Local Search, fuel price updates, and five-day weather forecasts.

As part of the LIVE service, TomTom's HD Traffic delivers traffic updates more frequently than such competing traffic services as Clear Channel's FM-RDS (RDS-TMC) TMC and FM-HD Radio-delivered traffic services, and it covers far more markets and delivers traffic information about more roadways within those markets than the rival services, the company said.

HD Traffic monitors traffic on 6 million miles of primary and secondary roads, including roads in rural areas, and it delivers the information to consumers anywhere AT&T's GPRS cellular-data coverage extends, said senior product manager Mike Villarreal. In contrast, the RDS-TMC and HD Radio services, as well as rival cellular-based services, use a traffic database limited to no more than 500,000 miles of roadways, and they do not cover nearly as many secondary roads, he said. In addition, radio-based traffic services are available only in about 110 markets, based on the number of FM stations broadcasting traffic data.

Another HD Traffic advantage is the delivery of traffic updates every two minutes compared to radio-station-based updates that arrive about every 15 minutes, the company said. As a result, drivers don't receive information about "ghost jams" that have already cleared up, TomTom said.

For its service, TomTom collects real-time traffic-flow information from users of cellular-equipped TomTom PNDs, iPhones outfitted with TomTom navigation software, and navigation-equipped fleet vehicles. Traffic-incident data is collected from third parties.

The real-time information is used by TomTom PNDs to calculate the fastest route to a destination. As with other TomTom PNDs, route calculations are also based on historical speeds on roads by time of day and day of week.

TomTom's service also covers more markets than satellite-radio-delivered Sirius Traffic, which delivers traffic-incident and traffic-flow information in more than 100 markets in the U.S. and Canada, the Sirius XM web site says. The service delivers information about primary freeways and interstates in those markets as well as "local information in select markets," the web site adds.
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Kex

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 13 mai 2011 :  18:49:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well, I was hoping they had plans to license their technology for OEM automotive usage. After living with IQ Routes for the past year an a half, and the new improved HD traffic from Live Services since February, I would be very reluctant to pay out $2,000 (or whatever) for a built in navigation system that wouldn't have traffic avoidance abilities anywhere close to those on my XL 340S Live, which costs about $170 currently (for the XL 340TM Live, with lifetime maps, on amazon.com).

For my type of usage (traffic 90-95% of the time, and long trips 5-10% of the time), I could never go back to something without IQ Routes (or trafficTrends, if Garmin ever get it working properly), not knowing if I'm going to arrive at the expected time during rush hour traffic, or thirty minutes later. That means that TomTom would have to license the whole package, including IQ Routes mapping, not just Live Services.

TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired)
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