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 PDA and Smartphone Road Navigation Software
 [TOPIC] ALK CoPilot GPS v8 USA for Windows Mobile
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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 26 nov. 2009 :  18:58:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Updated 20091204 : Review by rem below who first used CoPilot when it was at its v1 in 2001, impressed with the features and usability, but wishes they used a better map database.

Original Post : Anyone try Copilot Live 8? It's on sale this weekend, so I was thinking of picking it up first, but I'd like to hear from someone with first hand experience. I found some reviews but they were from general "PCMag" type sources that don't have a lot of GPS experience.

Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 26 nov. 2009 :  19:29:06  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
For Windows Mobile ? It's very similar to v7 -> http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=80008

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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 26 nov. 2009 :  19:36:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks gpspassion. I had found that review, but it was from 2 years ago.
Was curious if there were any significant improvements going from 7 to 8, given that there was a fair amount of criticism of v7.

Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 26 nov. 2009 :  19:39:25  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can't remember seeing any difference between the two versions actually other than the new maps and "junction view" signs (at least in Europe, probably not available in the US as they don't use Navteq maps), you can also check out the CoPilot iPhone topic as it the same v8 generation -> http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=128830

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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 27 nov. 2009 :  03:50:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some googling got me to a "what's new in V8 page": http://www.alk.eu.com/copilot/

Still looking for people who have tried the US version (the iPhone topic only seemed to have one real user). But I guess for $19.99 (the sale price till Monday) I can try it out without much risk.

Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android
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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 27 nov. 2009 :  16:57:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm kinda talking to myself here; hope no one minds :)

I found another review online, which had some interesting comments: http://forum.theiphoneblog.com/iphone-apps-games/177720-review-copilot-live-8-a.html

quote:

The biggest issue I had with CoPilot live was the choice of routes. Again, for small, everyday routes, the directions seemed very accurate. If the road was listed (there were a few times where newer roads weren't on the map - my home street was not listed for planning directions), the route was very straightforward. However, for longer routes, I had some problems. You can choose between a quickest, shortest, and economical routes (with specifications for avoiding tolls roads and similar options). Now, I plugged in the same trip I have been doing for all the apps - Edinburg, TX to Terlingua, TX. About 600 miles as I drive it. The shortest route came up with the standart shortest route (by miles) at about 590 miles. However, the quickest route had me going about 100 miles out of my way, up to San Antonio. And the ETA's for both of the trips was, well, insanely wrong. The trip has taken between between 10 and 12 hours. The estimated travel time for the quickest route (690 miles) was 18 hours. For the shortest route (590 miles) it was over 20 hours. Now, I could understand if it was driving back roads the whole time, but we are talking about driving on highways with a 70 or 75 mph speed limit!



What's really interesting is Mary from ALK responded to the blogger. She wrote:
quote:

Chris questions our entire routing capabilities because our travel time was 18 hours instead of 10-12 on his test route. The problem is that the route we give you has nothing to do with the travel time. You might drive that route and take 15 hours while he might drive the exact same route and take only 12 hours because he drives much faster than you. That’s the first point.

The second point is that if he gets into the Route Preview screen and hits the Options button he should see a selection titled Custom Routing Type. He can create a new Routing Profile (he can store many different Profiles if he wants) and inside that Routing Profile he can set the speeds for different classes of roads to whatever he thinks he drives. So I increased the speed on Interstates to 75 MPH and Divided Highways to 50 MPH and that route then took 13 hours and 57 minutes.



I think it's great that someone from the company is willing to engage with reviewers; however, I am disappointed in her justifications. I think the point that is missed by ALK is that their ETA estimates seem to be way out of line with just about other navigation app. Also, the user should not have to manually choose the speed of Interstates in order to improve the ETA estimation. This is the job of the GPS application! Also, the speed of interstates varies - some are 55mph, some are 65, some are 70. Ideally, the application should have this info stored for use; it should not have to estimate it.

Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 27 nov. 2009 :  17:22:42  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, it's not much of an answer, it should work properly out of the box. Not that it really matters but It's not due to the use of their proprietary maps in the US as it's the exact same problem in Europe with often odd routes and grossly underestimated average speeds that produce inaccurate ETAs, I've told them several times over the years so it seems they're not interested in fixing it...too bad for the average user.

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qwalls

5 Posts

Posted - 03 déc. 2009 :  13:34:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I picked up CoPilot 8 this past weekend while it was on sale. I like the interface and speed a lot. Routing is excellent. If it had TTS and better maps, it would be about perfect. Route generation is faster than Garmin XT and IGO8 on my HTC Touch Pro 2. Long distance routes are the best of the 3, but more similar to Garmin than IGO8. For me at least, IGO8's long distance routes are pretty bad.

Garmin is the slowest of the 3 in starting up and generating routes, and is the only one of the three that has GPS lag of about 4 seconds.

IGO8 is very customizable and has a lot of additional features. TTS is decent and the maps are great. It isn't as finger friendly as the other two.

I'd like to try iGuidance 2009 - I used version 1 for a while years ago and liked it a lot, but I don't like their change of being locked to their memory card. With version 1, I could install what I wanted from CD to my own card.

Anyway, CoPilot is a great value at $20, it would just be nice if the maps were more current.
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 04 déc. 2009 :  08:29:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I picked up CoPilot8 for my AT&T Tilt-2 (AKA Touch Pro 2) with Flashed Rom (Energy). After iGuidance went to locked software on memory cards I called them and BLASTED them, then dumped them. I HATE any company that forces me to use their cards, I use 16Gb microSD and will jump to 32Gb as soon as one shows up, I've no plans to be swapping memory cards on the road. Damn these companies, I'm no software thief, and there are a zillion companies selling "locked" software that is NOT tied to physical media, sheese... I thought I'd give CoPilot another try after leaving them for iGuidance many years ago.

For the price, I was actually shocked at how well CoPilot8 worked out of the box, it's "live" capability where it augments it's database with internet data is great! I did a search for some oddball shops in the area and much like GoogleMaps, it found them and offered to call them or navigate to them. It also has live traffic congestion warning and routing (optional, which I ordered as well $19 anually). Initially I was traveling in Austin Texas for a family wedding, with no idea where I was, I trusted this unknown product to get me around and it did great. The map auto zooms in 3D, locks on to satellites very quickly, updates approx 2-3 times per second, very fluid and stable.

Incoming calls seem to be handled gracefully as well, in all I was very pleasently suprised at how well the product works. It is the most finger friendly GPS app that I've used to date. Then I got home...

In my home area, Southern Calif., I've been using the program wherever I go, to see how it routes. I've found that it's fast at routing and fairly accurate with ETA's (I did set MY speed preferences for different road types). At this point the lovefest has dimmed a bit, the map data is simply not as good as NavTec's that I've been using for years with iGuidance. I've been routed to intersections that cross but aren't connected (e.g an overpass situation), streets that that aren't thru streets (leaving me looking across dirt to the road in the distance), I've watched it "snap" off of the highway to side streets (which causes it to re-route and bark incorrect instructions until it snaps back). Even my home address is off by over 1/2 block compared to GPS which is irritating.

In short, the database simply sucks compared to others like NavTec. They should just lic. a better database and charge more for the product (it's very inexpensive currently). I really want to love CoPilot8 but it needs work. Their PC app connects to the internet and uploads your trips to help with their database, but I wonder how much they use the data to really fix things. Currently that PC app has had almost nothing new to offer in the way of options or add-on's. I purchased the "Live weather/traffic" option, the only option currently offered. No text to speech yet either.

I decided to contact tech support and offer some feedback to see what happens, iGuidance was never very helpful or responsive but they made an OK product that improved at each version. We'll see how this goes...

Here's my email to support;
Hi I used Copilot v1 years ago and then went to IGuidance for many years with very good results, until they locked the S/W to a memory card. I use 16Gb and have no intentions to swap memory cards on the road. So I moved to Copilot8, which has some very nice features, like the "live" aspects. On My At&T Tilt-2, the program has been very stable, it recovers well when phone calls come in and end. My only usability complaint is volume control, other mapping progs like iGuidance have seperate volume controls from system volume which is really nice. On the tilt I have system vol up high which causes CoPilot to be Too Loud.

I've been a mobile PDA/Phone mapper for many many years now and I have to say that the actual routing/map accuracy is pretty bad compared to what I've been using. On almost every trip, at some point, the program routes to intersections that don't exist (e.g an overpass where streets cross but aren't really connected). Even my own house is pretty far off from GPS vs the address location. On freeways, the program jumps to side streets and back which causes many incorrect verbal commands along the way.

So while I like the user interface and really want to love the product, the actual mapping is simply not very accurate compared to iGuidance's NavTec maps. I'm simply stating the facts that I'm seeing from my couple of months usage. I'm glad to see that my trips seem to upload to you but wonder if these will ever be analyzed and corrected since the PC application seems woefully empty of updates and add-ons for the product. I don't think I've seen any changes since I purchased the product.

I also had become used to 2nd generation text to speech and while the CoPilot is OK for now, it is helpful to have spoken street names. Will this capability be available anytime soon?

Hopefully you care enough to respond.

Thanks

Ed

Edited by - rem on 04 déc. 2009 08:38:26
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 04 déc. 2009 :  11:37:37  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the thorough feedback and "long term" testing, I still remember these posts on PocketPC boards in 2001/2001 when CoPilot first came out and didn't have full coverage of the US. At the time we had no idea there could be different map providers, and look where we are now with Google Maps, Street View, etc... ;-)

You're right, they need to bite the bullet and move on to better maps, Navteq or TeleAtlas, for their consumer products (different story for their trucking products maybe), these old "no intersection" problems, are not acceptable and will worry anyone who needs to rely on GPS to get from A to B. Hopefully the success of the iPhone version will encourage them to do that.

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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 04 déc. 2009 :  16:30:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I should add that the overall useability, look and feel, Live features, and stability make this one of the best apps I've ever used. On the Touch Pro 2's large QVGA screen (480x800) the app is really gorgeous. I hope they further develop the program and the maps (e.g. use NavTec in the USA), I believe they are now using NavTec for EU and offer the intersection views etc. that aren't offered in the USA version right now. I really hope they are responsive.... If I see map data glitches on virtually every trip (not trip stopping, but minor irritations), that must mean that the data is rife with them.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 05 déc. 2009 :  01:53:04  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Actually they've been using Navteq (they changed their name in 2004 I think) maps in Europe since they launched there in mid-2003 so using them in the US shouldn't be too hard technically speaking.

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crash

63 Posts

Posted - 05 déc. 2009 :  11:55:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i jumped on their deal last week. as others stated above, i really like the interface. the maps themselves are pretty poor. my purchase came with a map. i then downloaded their copilot central software and saw i was being offered a new map for free. i live in a development that is 2-3 years old. it showed up on the ocn8 map that came out last year and finally started showing up on mapquest and good around the spring and summer of this year. this area still does not appear on either copilot map and their latest map is dated november. i find it pretty sad that last years ocn map is more accurate than last months copilot map. unless they get their act together it seems like i wasted $20.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 05 déc. 2009 :  12:35:05  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, it could be argued that even if the price is low it doesn't mean it's right if you don't feel confident it will give you reliable guidance mist of the time. Not having the latest housing developments is annoying, but non-existent intersections can be much more problematic and even dangerous. This type of problem with Navteq or TeleAtlas is far rarer.

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ve7mdt

Canada
170 Posts

Posted - 05 déc. 2009 :  14:25:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do they cover Canada now? I recall they didn't in earlier versions?

iPad WiFi w/ RoqyBT to use BT GPSr, LG Optimus G2x, BenQ S6, Samsung Q1, Toshiba e830, Toshiba e805, HTC Advantage X7501, Nextar MN2707 running P7, Magellan Springboard GPS on Visor 2MB, Haicom HI-303III + BT slipper, Holux GPSlim236, eTrex yellow
TomTom 1.9 for iOS, Navigon 2.0 for iOS, Navigon for Android, Garmin Mobile XT, Delorme Street Atlas 2009, Streets & Trips 2010, MapPoint 2010, APRSIS/CE, APRSIS/32, APRSDroid
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 08 déc. 2009 :  05:28:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is ALK's response to my email from above, I may send a few corrections to see if they do fix errors;

quote:
Thank you for contacting CoPilot Technical Support.

You may want to check in CoPilot Central 2.0 for map updates. Log in with your CoPilot ID and locate the North America region. Make sure you select "Download" and not "Add to cart".

If you notice a road or an address that you believe needs updating or experience a routing issue, you can report it directly to us at http://www.alk.com/Maps/map_updates.asp. We will verify the information, add it to our maps and distribute it, along with any other changes, to everyone through an update within 45 days.

If you have any further questions, or feel that this incident has not been resolved to your satisfaction, please do not hesitate to bring this to our attention.

Regards,

CoPilot Technical Support

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fatherof2

1 Posts

Posted - 17 déc. 2009 :  22:51:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Were you able to get the latest maps from that web site for free?
I also bought CoPilot Live 8 during Thanksgiving sale for $20 and just started to use it on my Touch Pro 2. So the maps are outdated and maybe older than on my old Magellan (2007).

First impressions were OK, but then I realized it did not have text-to-speech and traffic was optional. Exit numbers are not displayed and called out, even though some of them are present in the turn-by turn directions.
I have ran it side-by-side with my Magellan unit and accuracy is good. Signal acquisition is fast. Following directions in multi-lane highway environments is very hard. You have to watch the traffic signs and the unit at the same time.

Let me know if you were able to get the updated map. They want me to buy it for some reason for $25 and the release date for those is Dec. 8.
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qwalls

5 Posts

Posted - 20 déc. 2009 :  02:14:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I also bought during the Thanksgiving sale, and the December 8 was a free upgrade using CoPilot Central on my PC.
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jeffcarp94

USA
130 Posts

Posted - 25 janv. 2010 :  03:34:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I wanted to provide some feedback to the group based on my personal experiences with CoPilot Live v8 on Windows Mobile in the US. I have used the app for thousands of drive miles since its initial release. I also subscribe to the Live feature set which includes live search, gas prices, traffic and weather.

My opinion of this app started very, very high. Over time, it has lessened the more I've used it. However, it is still the app that I use. I keep my Garmin 885t at home for business trips for now. I can trust CPL for most of my needs and continue to use it as my solution of choice. However, this has a lot to do with the fact that it runs on my smartphone. It is "good enough" that the benefit of carrying a single device outweighs the limitations of the product.

The UI is just superb. It is really good. I can do almost everything with my finger. The app looks very, very nice also. The maps are not as visually detailed as Navteq on a Garmin (for examples, you don't see bodies of water colored blue), but the app still looks good.

There are a ton of customizable choices. You can set route profiles that allow you to assign your own speed classes for roads. You can set preferences or avoid types of roads. You can plan trips in the software and save those routes. You can create vias in your route. You can detour by removing specific road segments. And the best thing (for me) is that you can import OV2 formatted custom POI files, including proximity alert files. I keep all of my POI's in Google Maps MyMaps. I use TakItWithMe to convert my Google MyMaps to GPX, then convert the GPX file to an OV2 and import it into CPL. I wish CPL would just use the smartphone data connection to subscribe to GeoRSS feeds (ala Dash Navigation) so that I could just subscribe in real time to my Google MyMaps, but no dice on that.

With all of these great features, CPL is still just "OK" for me. For one, the maps are not good. They are old. They contain errors that Navteq fixed over a year ago at least. ALK does have a 45-day MapSure commitment on their website. It states that if you submit map errors to them, they will research and correct the map within 45 days. There have been monthly 1.0 GB updates each month from ALK, as well as some in-app map maintenance updates. However, non of them have fixed 6 updates that I submitted to ALK on November 24, 2009. Another customer says (on Facebook) that his errors submitted on November 9, 2009 also aren't addressed. As I compare my 6 submitted errors, Navteq, TeleAtlas, Google Maps and Rand McNally all have the error correct. ALK trails them all. The maps aren't good and ALK is currently not living up to its 45-day update commitment. ALK, on it's Facebook page, is also not responding to customers asking about why the 45-day update commitment isn't being met.

That brings me to the second issue with ALK that makes this app less than desirable. Many of the features advertised for the product remain vaporware, long past the deadline quoted by ALK. Now, lets be clear. These features are an additional cost. So, it isn't that we paid for the feature and didn't get it. We haven't paid for it yet. However, customers do make purchase decisions based on the features that are advertised as available or "coming soon." Many customers complained about the availability of the Live Services package. Live services was advertised as "coming soon" when the app was first released. In the US, it ended up being over 3 months before it was released. Live Search is great. I love it. Live Traffic, however, is a disaster in its implementation.

The data comes from Inrix and I've found the data to be fantastic. It appears to be Inrix's complete feed: all markets and all primary and secondary roads in those markets. I can't think of any other GPS app or PND in the US that has all of the Inrix feed. The problem is what CPL does (or doesn't do) with the traffic feed data. The CPL app DOES NOT take the traffic information available in its own app, into account when calculating a route or displaying the ETA! The app shows you traffic on your route, representing it by a nice bar on the right hand side of the screen that represents each incident on your route and the distance the incident is from you. You can click on any of the incident icons and read the text data for the incident from Inrix. The incidents are even color coded for their severity. For example, you can click on the red traffic icon and see that the flow on the 101 in San Jose is 25 / mph. However, CPL doesn't take that 25 mph flow rate and adjust the ETA. The ETA remains like the app doesn't know a thing about traffic. You can detour around the traffic, but it does you no good. The app doesn't take known traffic into account on the suggested route either, so you have no idea whether the alternate route is better or not. It only shows you the difference in miles and time as is you were driving the speed limits. This implementation of traffic is inexcusable and ALK should be embarrassed by it.

ALK advertised Text-To-Speech and Voice Command as features "coming soon" when the app was released. Later last year, they changed the delivery time to "Q4 2009." Their website, today, STILL says "Q4 2009" for the delivery. Three weeks ago, ALK, on their Facebook page said that TTS was "imminent." It is still not available. Voice Command hasn't even been mentioned by ALK, despite their webpage still showing it as coming Q4 2009.

So, what I'd say is that we have an app that has the best UI I've used. It has lots of great features. It has many customizable options. It has the best traffic data feed I've seen. However, ALK's maps are poor and they aren't living up to their 45-day update commitment. Their traffic implementation is a total waste of the great data feed they have. And they haven't delivered on promised time frames for new features.

The app has a ton of potential that it isn't currently living up to.

Nav experience: Garmin SP III, SP 2710, SP 2730, Garmin i5, Garmin c330, Garmin 760, Garmin 885T, Dash Navigation, TeleNav for Sprint, TomTom 740 Live, CoPilot Live v8, Navigon for Android, Navigon for iPad, Google Navigation, Waze, Garmin Nuvi 3490LMT, Garmin 3590LMT, TomTom for Android, Rand McNally 7725, Rand McNally 7735, Garmin viago
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jeffcarp94

USA
130 Posts

Posted - 26 janv. 2010 :  13:44:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Update: After posting this review, ALK posted to Facebook two nights ago (Sunday night in the US), that TTS had passed final testing on Friday and would be posted tomorrow (Monday). It is now Tuesday and we have no TTS available and no word from ALK when it will be available.

Nav experience: Garmin SP III, SP 2710, SP 2730, Garmin i5, Garmin c330, Garmin 760, Garmin 885T, Dash Navigation, TeleNav for Sprint, TomTom 740 Live, CoPilot Live v8, Navigon for Android, Navigon for iPad, Google Navigation, Waze, Garmin Nuvi 3490LMT, Garmin 3590LMT, TomTom for Android, Rand McNally 7725, Rand McNally 7735, Garmin viago
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jeffcarp94

USA
130 Posts

Posted - 05 févr. 2010 :  14:21:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just wanted to further follow up on my experiences with ALK. ALK's main place of interaction with customers is Facebook. My post above does contain some criticism of ALK's product. It also contains some praise. I, and others, have been posting to ALK's Facebook page, airing the same complaints that are aired above. Today, I find that I have been banned from ALK's Facebook page. Just a heads up if you are considering this product, the type of people you are dealing with. Apparently they find it best to try to silence their critics rather than address their complaints.

Still no TTS and now ALK has pulled all mention of it from their website.

Nav experience: Garmin SP III, SP 2710, SP 2730, Garmin i5, Garmin c330, Garmin 760, Garmin 885T, Dash Navigation, TeleNav for Sprint, TomTom 740 Live, CoPilot Live v8, Navigon for Android, Navigon for iPad, Google Navigation, Waze, Garmin Nuvi 3490LMT, Garmin 3590LMT, TomTom for Android, Rand McNally 7725, Rand McNally 7735, Garmin viago
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TimW

311 Posts

Posted - 05 févr. 2010 :  18:04:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the detailed info. I was tempted by the price. I could deal with delays or quirks, but banning you for requesting customer service, on a subscription based feature set you've already paid for? I'll pass. Oops, guess I'm preemptively banned on their FB :)
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jeffcarp94

USA
130 Posts

Posted - 05 févr. 2010 :  19:11:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TimW - just to be totally clear.....Customers have not paid for TTS yet. It is an add-on that would be paid for when released. The problem is, when CPL was released in August 2009, ALK advertised TTS as "coming soon." Later that fall, they changed it to "Q4 2009." That remained on their website into late January when TTS was completely removed from their website all together. Though we haven't paid for it, customers do make purchasing decisions based on what ALK represents is coming (if they choose to do so, which they did). This goes beyond "requesting customer service." The complaints on their Facebook page were fairly rampant (before they scrubbed the posts) demanding ALK make a public statement about where TTS is at, why it is delayed and why it was removed from the website. ALK's own staff, on 4 different occasions posted to Facebook that TTS was coming "imminently" in one case. Then on a Sunday, they said it passed testing on Friday and would be released Monday. That was about 3 weeks ago.

Nav experience: Garmin SP III, SP 2710, SP 2730, Garmin i5, Garmin c330, Garmin 760, Garmin 885T, Dash Navigation, TeleNav for Sprint, TomTom 740 Live, CoPilot Live v8, Navigon for Android, Navigon for iPad, Google Navigation, Waze, Garmin Nuvi 3490LMT, Garmin 3590LMT, TomTom for Android, Rand McNally 7725, Rand McNally 7735, Garmin viago
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jeffcarp94

USA
130 Posts

Posted - 06 févr. 2010 :  17:58:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Last night, ALK released TTS in the US for Windows Mobile. They ended up providing it for free, which was a nice surprise. In a few tests today, it seems to work pretty well. The voices are a little more robotic than their non-TTS voices, but for free, I can't complain about that.

They also released a new map update. I find improvements in the map in my area, some of which are things that I submitted. Don't know if it is a direct result of them responding to submissions, or if it is just part of the evolutionary map update process. Either way, I am pleased with that update as well.

Nav experience: Garmin SP III, SP 2710, SP 2730, Garmin i5, Garmin c330, Garmin 760, Garmin 885T, Dash Navigation, TeleNav for Sprint, TomTom 740 Live, CoPilot Live v8, Navigon for Android, Navigon for iPad, Google Navigation, Waze, Garmin Nuvi 3490LMT, Garmin 3590LMT, TomTom for Android, Rand McNally 7725, Rand McNally 7735, Garmin viago
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 24 févr. 2010 :  06:25:37  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great info jeff, I still use CPL all the time despite it's limitations, I have been periodically checking for updates and just checked today to see the new updates. Downloading everything now, had to uninstall the PC app as there is a bug that prevents auto updating of the app. Once that was done the Phone app installed and the map is downloading now. Most PDA GPS TTS is robotic and resource hoggish, iNav does a hibrid that uses "canned" speech for everything except the actual street name. This keeps things snappier but sounds odd to hear two different voices. Hopefully ALK did a decent job, they certainly took their time.

Very sad to hear that they can't handle any critical comments in public. This reminds me of iNav who pulled out of this forum rather than communicate openly with the community. I dumped them when they went the software locked to memory card and never looked back. ALK has a very well written app that does have a ton of potential, let's hope they keep at it!

Edit, the S/W seems to have downloaded, I see a new Prog Icon but can't see anything that indicates TTS is present??

I downloaded the current map 1.6Gb Feb 5 and it shows the download progress for about 20 min, then extracts and seems to load to the SD, but the file size is still 1.02 Gb, the same size as before so I don't know if the map is really downloading. I've just deleted the map from the phone and PC and am re-downloading to see what happens then.

All in all, the auto checking and updates have been a bit frustrating cause they just aren't behaving as expected.

Frak, after I deleted the NA Map from the PC and Phone, it downloaded the new map with the new 1.63Gb size.....and blew away all my favorites, just great. Still can't see anything on the TTS, WTF? maybe it just works?? There is a greyed out speech key in settings but it's non-functional.

Edited by - rem on 24 févr. 2010 08:45:05
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jeffcarp94

USA
130 Posts

Posted - 25 févr. 2010 :  01:39:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Technically, the map update didn't remove your favorites. What did happen is a bonehead move by ALK and it is the second time since the product was released that they've done it. The issue is, that they keep changing the name of the maps between "NorthAmerica" and "North America." Your favorites are stored within the map's folder structure. When they change the name like that, the map update isn't an update anymore. It is a second map install. You have both on your card now. Your favorites are still there, but in the old folder structure. They aren't copied to the new folder structure. You may actually still be using your old maps in the program depending on which map is selected in your settings. I personally notified ALK the first time they did this and they said they'd pass it on. Now they made the same mistake again. You can manually copy your personal files/folders to the new map folder structure and it will work fine.

Nav experience: Garmin SP III, SP 2710, SP 2730, Garmin i5, Garmin c330, Garmin 760, Garmin 885T, Dash Navigation, TeleNav for Sprint, TomTom 740 Live, CoPilot Live v8, Navigon for Android, Navigon for iPad, Google Navigation, Waze, Garmin Nuvi 3490LMT, Garmin 3590LMT, TomTom for Android, Rand McNally 7725, Rand McNally 7735, Garmin viago
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 25 févr. 2010 :  04:55:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks Jeff, I had seen the exact issue with the map naming and two map copies last time and I too reported it to tech support. This time the app appeared to download but was not recognized by the PC app until I deleted the old file and I had forgotten to check the map naming again. I could have possibly been able to save my favorites after all, but they are long gone now. BTW, Tech support told me that favorites are not saved between versions but they may not know about this naming issue, still.

I actually had to call ALK because the TTS was not there. They almost would not speak with me as their policy is free voice support for 60 days, after that only web support is available. They sent me instructions to delete CPL from the phone, then download the new TTS version from a link in the email, then copy it onto the SD card and over write the existing files and re-install the app. Then buy and activate TTS.

I then had to go to the ALK site and buy (zero $) the TTS application. It requires your CoPilot8 key of which mine was not accepted. I had to get the phone app up and running, then de-activate CPL, then re-activate on-line. Once that was done, the TTS app in the store accepted my product key (it was the same number).

So it's done finally and I tried a test run. I chose a female Brittish voice (from all of the many included voices there are only a couple of TTS voices, denoted with an astrisk). I'd say that the voice is better and more fluid than iGuidance so I'm pretty happy now.

So all of the automated updates and downloaders for CPL look good, but in this pass they were very rough leading to pretty much a manual re-install of everything. Hopefully next round will be smoother.
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shepard

USA
1 Posts

Posted - 05 mars 2010 :  01:58:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
NO NEED TO QUOTE A MESSAGE DIRECTLY ABOVE YOURS, MAKES THE FORUMS EASIER TO READ, THANKS ;-) GPSPASSION TEAM
I purchased a Rightway GPS400 and it had copilot live 7.0 on it with alk maps. The maps are actually at least 7 years old for the United States. I had my house built 6 years ago and our church was built 7 years ago in different cities and neither are on their maps. Our sub-division isnt even on their maps.

Shepard
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jeffcarp94

USA
130 Posts

Posted - 05 mars 2010 :  14:09:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
They are releasing monthly map updates with v8. The maps with v8 are much more current than before.

Nav experience: Garmin SP III, SP 2710, SP 2730, Garmin i5, Garmin c330, Garmin 760, Garmin 885T, Dash Navigation, TeleNav for Sprint, TomTom 740 Live, CoPilot Live v8, Navigon for Android, Navigon for iPad, Google Navigation, Waze, Garmin Nuvi 3490LMT, Garmin 3590LMT, TomTom for Android, Rand McNally 7725, Rand McNally 7735, Garmin viago
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 09 mars 2010 :  03:30:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Update, the update that added TTS also had a new US map and the file was significantly larger 1.6Gb vs 1.02Gb and it seems more up to date in my area in Southern California.

I really like the TTS and do think it's one of the best PPC implementations. It only has a couple of TTS voices, I prefer the female (less robotic sounding), it's Brittish English. The only annoying quirk is that it calls transition ramps "Slip Roads??" "Take slip road to...." rather than "Take off-ramp to...) and it says this a lot so it's becoming more annoying.

Also, the this new updated (TTS) prog is a bit less stable. More than once the app opens with no map displayed, or "no GPS detected", or leaves the "calculating route bar" at the bottom of the screen, or opens with the old route still set. To clear I have to exit the prog, soft reset, and then try again which usually works.

I preferred the previous version's stability, it always opened clean and ready for a new route.
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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 28 mars 2010 :  04:21:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think it's worth mentioning that when I purchased Copilot back in November, TTS was "coming soon", but was going to be a premium add-on. Now that it's out, they did make it free, which is a nice perk!

That being said, I just installed it and I'm not sure it's quite right. I only see one TTS voice (Frank).

It sounds like the live traffic services are not worth it if they won't re-route you around traffic.

Has anyone tried the gas price search?


Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android

Edited by - larryc on 28 mars 2010 05:00:52
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 02 avr. 2010 :  07:17:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There are a few TTS voices that can be downloaded, they have the astrisk. I used a female Brittish voice. I do like the Live services, they don't cost much and it's interesting to see the accidents pop up along the way. I'm glad it doesn't re-route because most often the reported "accident/warning" usually doesn't turn out to be much of an event. I use a company car so I don't shop gas prices so I'm no help there.
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jeffcarp94

USA
130 Posts

Posted - 02 avr. 2010 :  13:56:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Larryc: Judging whether something is worth it is a personal decision, but there are some serious issues with the traffic service. The data is great. It comes from Inrix and I find it to be very accurate. ALK's implementation of that data, in my opinion, borders on worthless. While in a route, a traffic alert will be announced. Along the right side of the screen, a nice distance scale will open and individual icons representing traffic incidents will be shown along the distance scale based on how far the incident is away from you. So far so good.

Where it falls down is that as a driver, you have no idea what you are dealing with, unless you believe it is safe to push those little icons and then read the text associated with them while driving. That is the only way to determine the issue. Worse yet, the text from Inrix give you the traffic flow speed associated with the incident (i.e., congestion: 12 mph) but ALK doesn't do anything with that data. They do NOT adjust your ETA. Your ETA stays the same as it was before the incident ever occurred.

You can select individual incidents and manually detour, but you have no data to know whether that is the right thing to do or not. First, you don't know the delay amount you are dealing with. Second, you have no idea what the traffic conditions are on the route you would detour on to. When you select a detour, ALK shows you the distance change and time change (i.e., +3 miles / + 7 minutes) but that does NOT take traffic conditions into account. So your 3 mile detour could have a 20 minute freeway delay on it that their software IS reporting, but it doesn't tell you that until after you've accepted the detour and gone that way. Then - surprise! Another traffic incident shows up.

ALK also doesn't use the traffic data to calculate the route or to determine en route if a better route is available. Basically, traffic in this product is a reporting system. When you are already in the traffic physically, you already know about it. You don't need a reporting system, you need the system to tell you what to DO about it.

ALK has received a barrage of complaints about this on their Facebook website. To date, they've not said a word about it in response except a few private emails saying "please stop talking about traffic" and telling us how "hard" software development is and how things take time. Blah, blah, blah. This week, they appear to have filtered many of the complaint posts off their Facebook page and blocked new user posts.

The gas price feature works fine. Though it is missing some stations like a Flying J Truck stop and a few convenience stores that have been around for at least 15 years. And in California, while I've been there on business, I never go it to report any prices for any stations.

Nav experience: Garmin SP III, SP 2710, SP 2730, Garmin i5, Garmin c330, Garmin 760, Garmin 885T, Dash Navigation, TeleNav for Sprint, TomTom 740 Live, CoPilot Live v8, Navigon for Android, Navigon for iPad, Google Navigation, Waze, Garmin Nuvi 3490LMT, Garmin 3590LMT, TomTom for Android, Rand McNally 7725, Rand McNally 7735, Garmin viago
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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 20 juil. 2010 :  22:11:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anyone play with the "speak turn warning" setting?
It appears to give options for 2 mi, 1 mi, 3/10 mi, and 'at turn'; however, the specific way it works is undocumented. I opened a ticket about this with ALK (since their online manual did not match what I saw in the program) and I was told the documentation is obsolete.

Specifically, I want to know if any of the alerts are dependent on your speed. For example, while on the highway I'd like to be alerted at 2 mi and 1 mi, but this doesn't make sense when driving on a local road at 25 mph. Sure, I could run a bunch of tests by changing the settings and then going out driving, but that is not so easy to do real-time if you are the driver and the tester! :) Hoping to learn if anyone else knows about this setting.

Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android
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jeffcarp94

USA
130 Posts

Posted - 21 juil. 2010 :  05:25:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just completed a 4071 mile road trip over the last 20 days which took me through 15 states. I used ALK's CoPilot Live the entire time. I've posted a rather lengthy summary of my experience on my blog here: http://tinyurl.com/2arsn9f

Nav experience: Garmin SP III, SP 2710, SP 2730, Garmin i5, Garmin c330, Garmin 760, Garmin 885T, Dash Navigation, TeleNav for Sprint, TomTom 740 Live, CoPilot Live v8, Navigon for Android, Navigon for iPad, Google Navigation, Waze, Garmin Nuvi 3490LMT, Garmin 3590LMT, TomTom for Android, Rand McNally 7725, Rand McNally 7735, Garmin viago
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 21 juil. 2010 :  09:56:38  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by larryc

Anyone play with the "speak turn warning" setting?
It appears to give options for 2 mi, 1 mi, 3/10 mi, and 'at turn'; however, the specific way it works is undocumented. I opened a ticket about this with ALK (since their online manual did not match what I saw in the program) and I was told the documentation is obsolete.

Specifically, I want to know if any of the alerts are dependent on your speed. For example, while on the highway I'd like to be alerted at 2 mi and 1 mi, but this doesn't make sense when driving on a local road at 25 mph. Sure, I could run a bunch of tests by changing the settings and then going out driving, but that is not so easy to do real-time if you are the driver and the tester! :) Hoping to learn if anyone else knows about this setting.
Don't think this can be made speed dependent but will check on my iPad version, keep us posted on their reply.

Discounts and Assistance/Réductions et Assistance (Club GpsPasSion) / Où commencer?
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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 21 juil. 2010 :  20:20:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ALK finally responded that the settings are what they are; in other words the settings are not speed dependent.

Honestly, their answer doesn't make sense, at least compared to all the other gps software I've ever used.

As I wrote earlier, I haven't had a chance to test this on my own (it's somewhat hard to test when you think about it - you have to change one setting, then drive a route, then stop, make a change, and drive the route again, etc).

Additionally, I am having problem related to this setting that I can't seem to solve right now. When I go into this specific "speak turn warning" screen, all the options are unchecked. If I check some or all of them and then save, when I go back to the setting screen, the options are all unchecked. In other words, there's no way for me to make the settings stick.
I opened a ticked about this as well; they first suggested deleting my user.cfg file; that didn't work. They now are telling me to uninstall & reinstall the software. Haven't gotten to that yet but will post my results.

[edit] Just went through an uninstall / reinstall and it didn't fix the problem.
FWIW, that process was a real PITA with many time consuming steps. Uninstall the app and the maps... Download and & reinstall the app... Re-enter the license key... Download the maps to the device... Now enter the upgrade license key to enable TTS... Now download the quarterly update....
The entire uninstall / reinstall process probably took 30-45 minutes. I wish Copilot central 2.0 could store your license keys, so if you have to reinstall, you can simply push them to the device.

Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android

Edited by - larryc on 21 juil. 2010 21:22:22
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