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 [TOPIC] ALK CoPilot GPS v8 USA for Windows Mobile
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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 26 nov. 2009 :  18:58:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Updated 20091204 : Review by rem below who first used CoPilot when it was at its v1 in 2001, impressed with the features and usability, but wishes they used a better map database.

Original Post : Anyone try Copilot Live 8? It's on sale this weekend, so I was thinking of picking it up first, but I'd like to hear from someone with first hand experience. I found some reviews but they were from general "PCMag" type sources that don't have a lot of GPS experience.

Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android

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gpspassion

93894 Posts

Posted - 26 nov. 2009 :  19:29:06  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
For Windows Mobile ? It's very similar to v7 -> http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=80008

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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 26 nov. 2009 :  19:36:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks gpspassion. I had found that review, but it was from 2 years ago.
Was curious if there were any significant improvements going from 7 to 8, given that there was a fair amount of criticism of v7.

Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android
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gpspassion

93894 Posts

Posted - 26 nov. 2009 :  19:39:25  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I can't remember seeing any difference between the two versions actually other than the new maps and "junction view" signs (at least in Europe, probably not available in the US as they don't use Navteq maps), you can also check out the CoPilot iPhone topic as it the same v8 generation -> http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=128830

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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 27 nov. 2009 :  03:50:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Some googling got me to a "what's new in V8 page": http://www.alk.eu.com/copilot/

Still looking for people who have tried the US version (the iPhone topic only seemed to have one real user). But I guess for $19.99 (the sale price till Monday) I can try it out without much risk.

Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android
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larryc

USA
224 Posts

Posted - 27 nov. 2009 :  16:57:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm kinda talking to myself here; hope no one minds :)

I found another review online, which had some interesting comments: http://forum.theiphoneblog.com/iphone-apps-games/177720-review-copilot-live-8-a.html

quote:

The biggest issue I had with CoPilot live was the choice of routes. Again, for small, everyday routes, the directions seemed very accurate. If the road was listed (there were a few times where newer roads weren't on the map - my home street was not listed for planning directions), the route was very straightforward. However, for longer routes, I had some problems. You can choose between a quickest, shortest, and economical routes (with specifications for avoiding tolls roads and similar options). Now, I plugged in the same trip I have been doing for all the apps - Edinburg, TX to Terlingua, TX. About 600 miles as I drive it. The shortest route came up with the standart shortest route (by miles) at about 590 miles. However, the quickest route had me going about 100 miles out of my way, up to San Antonio. And the ETA's for both of the trips was, well, insanely wrong. The trip has taken between between 10 and 12 hours. The estimated travel time for the quickest route (690 miles) was 18 hours. For the shortest route (590 miles) it was over 20 hours. Now, I could understand if it was driving back roads the whole time, but we are talking about driving on highways with a 70 or 75 mph speed limit!



What's really interesting is Mary from ALK responded to the blogger. She wrote:
quote:

Chris questions our entire routing capabilities because our travel time was 18 hours instead of 10-12 on his test route. The problem is that the route we give you has nothing to do with the travel time. You might drive that route and take 15 hours while he might drive the exact same route and take only 12 hours because he drives much faster than you. That’s the first point.

The second point is that if he gets into the Route Preview screen and hits the Options button he should see a selection titled Custom Routing Type. He can create a new Routing Profile (he can store many different Profiles if he wants) and inside that Routing Profile he can set the speeds for different classes of roads to whatever he thinks he drives. So I increased the speed on Interstates to 75 MPH and Divided Highways to 50 MPH and that route then took 13 hours and 57 minutes.



I think it's great that someone from the company is willing to engage with reviewers; however, I am disappointed in her justifications. I think the point that is missed by ALK is that their ETA estimates seem to be way out of line with just about other navigation app. Also, the user should not have to manually choose the speed of Interstates in order to improve the ETA estimation. This is the job of the GPS application! Also, the speed of interstates varies - some are 55mph, some are 65, some are 70. Ideally, the application should have this info stored for use; it should not have to estimate it.

Mio Moov 500 / Google Nav Android / Copilot 8 Android
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gpspassion

93894 Posts

Posted - 27 nov. 2009 :  17:22:42  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, it's not much of an answer, it should work properly out of the box. Not that it really matters but It's not due to the use of their proprietary maps in the US as it's the exact same problem in Europe with often odd routes and grossly underestimated average speeds that produce inaccurate ETAs, I've told them several times over the years so it seems they're not interested in fixing it...too bad for the average user.

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qwalls

5 Posts

Posted - 03 déc. 2009 :  13:34:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I picked up CoPilot 8 this past weekend while it was on sale. I like the interface and speed a lot. Routing is excellent. If it had TTS and better maps, it would be about perfect. Route generation is faster than Garmin XT and IGO8 on my HTC Touch Pro 2. Long distance routes are the best of the 3, but more similar to Garmin than IGO8. For me at least, IGO8's long distance routes are pretty bad.

Garmin is the slowest of the 3 in starting up and generating routes, and is the only one of the three that has GPS lag of about 4 seconds.

IGO8 is very customizable and has a lot of additional features. TTS is decent and the maps are great. It isn't as finger friendly as the other two.

I'd like to try iGuidance 2009 - I used version 1 for a while years ago and liked it a lot, but I don't like their change of being locked to their memory card. With version 1, I could install what I wanted from CD to my own card.

Anyway, CoPilot is a great value at $20, it would just be nice if the maps were more current.
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 04 déc. 2009 :  08:29:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I picked up CoPilot8 for my AT&T Tilt-2 (AKA Touch Pro 2) with Flashed Rom (Energy). After iGuidance went to locked software on memory cards I called them and BLASTED them, then dumped them. I HATE any company that forces me to use their cards, I use 16Gb microSD and will jump to 32Gb as soon as one shows up, I've no plans to be swapping memory cards on the road. Damn these companies, I'm no software thief, and there are a zillion companies selling "locked" software that is NOT tied to physical media, sheese... I thought I'd give CoPilot another try after leaving them for iGuidance many years ago.

For the price, I was actually shocked at how well CoPilot8 worked out of the box, it's "live" capability where it augments it's database with internet data is great! I did a search for some oddball shops in the area and much like GoogleMaps, it found them and offered to call them or navigate to them. It also has live traffic congestion warning and routing (optional, which I ordered as well $19 anually). Initially I was traveling in Austin Texas for a family wedding, with no idea where I was, I trusted this unknown product to get me around and it did great. The map auto zooms in 3D, locks on to satellites very quickly, updates approx 2-3 times per second, very fluid and stable.

Incoming calls seem to be handled gracefully as well, in all I was very pleasently suprised at how well the product works. It is the most finger friendly GPS app that I've used to date. Then I got home...

In my home area, Southern Calif., I've been using the program wherever I go, to see how it routes. I've found that it's fast at routing and fairly accurate with ETA's (I did set MY speed preferences for different road types). At this point the lovefest has dimmed a bit, the map data is simply not as good as NavTec's that I've been using for years with iGuidance. I've been routed to intersections that cross but aren't connected (e.g an overpass situation), streets that that aren't thru streets (leaving me looking across dirt to the road in the distance), I've watched it "snap" off of the highway to side streets (which causes it to re-route and bark incorrect instructions until it snaps back). Even my home address is off by over 1/2 block compared to GPS which is irritating.

In short, the database simply sucks compared to others like NavTec. They should just lic. a better database and charge more for the product (it's very inexpensive currently). I really want to love CoPilot8 but it needs work. Their PC app connects to the internet and uploads your trips to help with their database, but I wonder how much they use the data to really fix things. Currently that PC app has had almost nothing new to offer in the way of options or add-on's. I purchased the "Live weather/traffic" option, the only option currently offered. No text to speech yet either.

I decided to contact tech support and offer some feedback to see what happens, iGuidance was never very helpful or responsive but they made an OK product that improved at each version. We'll see how this goes...

Here's my email to support;
Hi I used Copilot v1 years ago and then went to IGuidance for many years with very good results, until they locked the S/W to a memory card. I use 16Gb and have no intentions to swap memory cards on the road. So I moved to Copilot8, which has some very nice features, like the "live" aspects. On My At&T Tilt-2, the program has been very stable, it recovers well when phone calls come in and end. My only usability complaint is volume control, other mapping progs like iGuidance have seperate volume controls from system volume which is really nice. On the tilt I have system vol up high which causes CoPilot to be Too Loud.

I've been a mobile PDA/Phone mapper for many many years now and I have to say that the actual routing/map accuracy is pretty bad compared to what I've been using. On almost every trip, at some point, the program routes to intersections that don't exist (e.g an overpass where streets cross but aren't really connected). Even my own house is pretty far off from GPS vs the address location. On freeways, the program jumps to side streets and back which causes many incorrect verbal commands along the way.

So while I like the user interface and really want to love the product, the actual mapping is simply not very accurate compared to iGuidance's NavTec maps. I'm simply stating the facts that I'm seeing from my couple of months usage. I'm glad to see that my trips seem to upload to you but wonder if these will ever be analyzed and corrected since the PC application seems woefully empty of updates and add-ons for the product. I don't think I've seen any changes since I purchased the product.

I also had become used to 2nd generation text to speech and while the CoPilot is OK for now, it is helpful to have spoken street names. Will this capability be available anytime soon?

Hopefully you care enough to respond.

Thanks

Ed

Edited by - rem on 04 déc. 2009 08:38:26
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gpspassion

93894 Posts

Posted - 04 déc. 2009 :  11:37:37  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the thorough feedback and "long term" testing, I still remember these posts on PocketPC boards in 2001/2001 when CoPilot first came out and didn't have full coverage of the US. At the time we had no idea there could be different map providers, and look where we are now with Google Maps, Street View, etc... ;-)

You're right, they need to bite the bullet and move on to better maps, Navteq or TeleAtlas, for their consumer products (different story for their trucking products maybe), these old "no intersection" problems, are not acceptable and will worry anyone who needs to rely on GPS to get from A to B. Hopefully the success of the iPhone version will encourage them to do that.

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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 04 déc. 2009 :  16:30:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I should add that the overall useability, look and feel, Live features, and stability make this one of the best apps I've ever used. On the Touch Pro 2's large QVGA screen (480x800) the app is really gorgeous. I hope they further develop the program and the maps (e.g. use NavTec in the USA), I believe they are now using NavTec for EU and offer the intersection views etc. that aren't offered in the USA version right now. I really hope they are responsive.... If I see map data glitches on virtually every trip (not trip stopping, but minor irritations), that must mean that the data is rife with them.
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gpspassion

93894 Posts

Posted - 05 déc. 2009 :  01:53:04  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Actually they've been using Navteq (they changed their name in 2004 I think) maps in Europe since they launched there in mid-2003 so using them in the US shouldn't be too hard technically speaking.

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crash

63 Posts

Posted - 05 déc. 2009 :  11:55:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
i jumped on their deal last week. as others stated above, i really like the interface. the maps themselves are pretty poor. my purchase came with a map. i then downloaded their copilot central software and saw i was being offered a new map for free. i live in a development that is 2-3 years old. it showed up on the ocn8 map that came out last year and finally started showing up on mapquest and good around the spring and summer of this year. this area still does not appear on either copilot map and their latest map is dated november. i find it pretty sad that last years ocn map is more accurate than last months copilot map. unless they get their act together it seems like i wasted $20.
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gpspassion

93894 Posts

Posted - 05 déc. 2009 :  12:35:05  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, it could be argued that even if the price is low it doesn't mean it's right if you don't feel confident it will give you reliable guidance mist of the time. Not having the latest housing developments is annoying, but non-existent intersections can be much more problematic and even dangerous. This type of problem with Navteq or TeleAtlas is far rarer.

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ve7mdt

Canada
170 Posts

Posted - 05 déc. 2009 :  14:25:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do they cover Canada now? I recall they didn't in earlier versions?

iPad WiFi w/ RoqyBT to use BT GPSr, LG Optimus G2x, BenQ S6, Samsung Q1, Toshiba e830, Toshiba e805, HTC Advantage X7501, Nextar MN2707 running P7, Magellan Springboard GPS on Visor 2MB, Haicom HI-303III + BT slipper, Holux GPSlim236, eTrex yellow
TomTom 1.9 for iOS, Navigon 2.0 for iOS, Navigon for Android, Garmin Mobile XT, Delorme Street Atlas 2009, Streets & Trips 2010, MapPoint 2010, APRSIS/CE, APRSIS/32, APRSDroid
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rem

USA
197 Posts

Posted - 08 déc. 2009 :  05:28:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is ALK's response to my email from above, I may send a few corrections to see if they do fix errors;

quote:
Thank you for contacting CoPilot Technical Support.

You may want to check in CoPilot Central 2.0 for map updates. Log in with your CoPilot ID and locate the North America region. Make sure you select "Download" and not "Add to cart".

If you notice a road or an address that you believe needs updating or experience a routing issue, you can report it directly to us at http://www.alk.com/Maps/map_updates.asp. We will verify the information, add it to our maps and distribute it, along with any other changes, to everyone through an update within 45 days.

If you have any further questions, or feel that this incident has not been resolved to your satisfaction, please do not hesitate to bring this to our attention.

Regards,

CoPilot Technical Support

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