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 GPS on the Apple iPhone and iPad - smartphoneGPS.com
 [TOPIC] CoPilot Live Premium for iPhone - Testing
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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 23 mars 2010 :  22:38:08  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for sharing and for reposting here.

I'm also quite happy with the latest version of CoPilot for the iPhone, the new LIVE features, the built-in Google Local search and the optional Traffic information via Inrix (at least in Europe) are a must for a connected device like the iPhone.

The issue I have is with the routes it picks though. It's normal for a GPS system to not always pick the optimal route a local person would take, but over the years the likes of Garmin, Navigon and TomTom have made some great progress in that area by almost always offering routes that make sense. Unfortunately the side by side testing I performed on Sunday with CoPilot for iPhone showed it picked odd routes (a mix of long routes to catch the motorway when there was a four lane road with less mileage, then staying on a two lane road instead of using a 4 lane+motorway combo) compared to the others and didn't offer a new route after I went off course, stubbornly trying to take me back on its original route. It's not specific to the iPhone version because I've seen similar problems on the Android version.

I don't think it's map related since TomTom use TeleAtlas and Garmin and Navigon use Navteq like CoPilot in Europe. I suspect it's down to the way their routing engine works and that's never easy to fix...

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Rick762

Canada
75 Posts

Posted - 24 mars 2010 :  01:17:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well it's interesting that you say that because this version of CoPilot (at least here in North America) has a feature called Routing Profiles. The function of this feature is to allow the user to further customize how the routing engine plots a particular route.

Part of this feature is similar to many other competitive programs, allowing you to set for Automobile, RV, Motorcycle, Walking etc., as well as Quickest, Shortest, Economic and allows to avoid Ferries, Toll Roads etc. However, when you drill down deeper in the Menu (Settings -> Show More Settings) it allows you to either customize an existing Routing Profile or Create a New Profile.

Once in this sub-menu, you can choose different settings for each type of road (Strongly Avoid, Avoid, Neutral, Favour, Strongly Favour) and also set your preferred speed for each type of road. It also has further settings for Toll Roads (Use, Avoid if Possible, Always Avoid) and a detail setting for Congestion Zones (Avoid, Allow or Warn).

I read one review sometime last week where the reviewer said, once he had a chance to customize these settings for the way he liked to travel, the routing engine planned routes that were much better than what he was getting with the default settings. Unfortunately, I have not had an opportunity to play around with these settings yet but I am looking forward to trying several different profiles.

Of course, another option is, once you have planned the route, you can review the itinerary turn by turn and then if you don't believe this is the most efficient route, you can just hit Menu -> Detour -> Alternate Route and the program will choose another route for you to look at. Or, hit Menu -> Detour -> Avoid Roads if you just want to change the chosen roads one at a time.

And one feature that I really like is Optimizing Stops. Once you have entered a trip with more than 3 stops, this feature will automatically reorder your stops in the most efficient manner. By default it will not change your start and end points but if you want, you can choose for it to include the end point when it reorders the stops.

Road Warrior
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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 24 mars 2010 :  11:49:43  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes these are all good features and they've had them for years, but I've spent some time fixing the average speeds to get better routes and better ETA, and it's still not giving the same good results on average than the Garmin, Navigon and TomTom based systems are getting "out of the box" so that's a problem they need to work on, especially for an app that runs on such a mainstream device as the iPhone.

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John R

85 Posts

Posted - 29 mars 2010 :  18:54:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Knowing the ETA and distance to the next maneuver or final destination are most important to me even though the roads may be familiar. Being able to mold a route, even though it may not be the best or optimum or fastest, is a must. As the TomTom program only allows one intermediate stop, this is sometimes impossible. I find TomTom picks better routes "out of the box" in some cases, CoPilot in others.

It seems like, with these latest releases of CoPilot, there has been a quantum leap in the quality of their USA maps. Has anyone else noticed that, or is it just my imagination?


Regards,
John Roper
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Rick762

Canada
75 Posts

Posted - 29 mars 2010 :  19:46:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Although I can't confirm this from my personal experience, I think I would agree. This is the first version of CoPilot I have tried and I must admit that I was more than a little hesitant to try it after reading so many negative posts on the earlier versions. But I have since read many positive posts about this version from others and in particular, that the maps are much improved, both in the US and Canada. And, if this is indeed the case, then that may also lend itself to calculating better routes.

I will be on the road for a couple of days this week and should have an opportunity to do some route planning. I will try to do a comparison with my JVC unit running Navteq maps. And perhaps if I get a chance this weekend, I will also try a comparison with my Sony unit (also running Navteq) and Garmin Mobile XT running on my HTC Fuze.

Road Warrior
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Rick762

Canada
75 Posts

Posted - 08 avr. 2010 :  21:33:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just a small update:

I have spent about a week now traveling and comparing this app with my built-in JVC unit. I still haven't had the time to customize the routing preferences yet so I am still running in the default mode, with the one exception being that I changed from Economic to Quickest. And, although I haven't bought the Magellan (or TomTom) car kit yet, I have been using a generic windshield mount and because of this I have noticed a slight increase in accuracy. Prior to this I had my iPhone sitting in a generic cell phone holder which is mounted on my dash between my radio and air vent.

So far I would have to say that I am impressed with the results. While the calculated routes between the two have been, for the most part different, the differences have been very minor. On short trips or long trips the differences tend to be on subdivision-type roads rather than highways and secondary roads. So, if you are in an area that you are familiar with and decide not to make that turn, the recalculation is fast and you won't miss a beat. And even if you are somewhere you are not familiar with, it will get you there nonetheless.

Most of this testing took place within about 60 miles of Toronto. Next week I will be heading to Northern Ontario and will have a better opportunity to test the routing in some of the smaller population centres.

To address John R's preference of what information he likes to see on the screen while navigating, the information bar at the bottom of the screen is completely customizable. It can be set to show one item or two items at a time or, it can be set to scroll through the complete list. When set for one item or two, your choices are: Destination, Current Road, Next Crossroad, Nearest Town, Estimated Time of Arrival, Estimated Travel Time, Speed, Distance Remaining, Altitude, Latitude/Longitude and Heading.

Also, there is a pretty good review over on iLounge. Keep in mind that this was posted before the last couple of updates so most, if not all, of the negative issues have been fixed with these updates (especially the registration process that went very smoothly and quickly for me).

[url]http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/reviews/entry/alk-technologies-copilot-live-8-north-america//url]

More to come......

Road Warrior
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motif1

14 Posts

Posted - 24 mai 2010 :  13:52:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
DOES COPILOT IPHONE STOP NAVIGATING AT SLOW SPEED?

This is a common criticism of Copilot on the appstore reviews, including at least one person who said it was useless in pedestrian mode for that reason. I am inclined to believe the criticisms because I have current Copilot 8 on a win mobile phone, and in pedestrian mode I see frequent "freezing" where the arrow no longer moves. You have to exit and restart the program, then it resumes OK.

However I'm struck by the lack of the slow-speed criticism in this forum. Do people here see this on iPhone, freezing of navigation at speeds less than ~30km/h, or walking? If not, what's different here from the appstore complainers? If yes, do you find it OK to just live with it?

Otherwise, I like Copilot on my winmo phone, graphics are great, integration with POIs is good (can call POI from navigating, not possible with iPhone Navigon), can advance plan a route (barely possible in Navigon), and abundant and useful settings (unlike Navigon). I would consider it on iPhone if it didn't have the same slow-speed freezing problem that it has on winmo.
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Rick762

Canada
75 Posts

Posted - 24 mai 2010 :  15:06:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was sitting down at the lake having my morning coffee when I read your post regarding slow speed navigating so, I thought I would give it a try. I generally do not use the pedestrian mode so I thought this would be a good opportunity to try it out anyway.

I went into settings and changed it from Automobile to Pedestrian first, then I used Live Search to select a destination that I knew was about .5 kms from where I was parked. I then clicked Go and the first thing I noticed was that the screen was zoomed out further than normal. My 500 meter route was only about 1.5 inches long on the screen. So I clicked on the '+' icon twice to get it so my route now took up most of the length of the screen.

The next thing I noticed was, instead of the red circle icon showing my current position, it was a little red stop sign. Cool as I have never seen this until now. Another thing I noticed is that there is also a green dotted line showing an "as the crow flies" line to your destination. I guess that is for if you want to cut through parking lots and green spaces. Anyway, as soon a I started to walk (about 3 steps) the stop sign turned into the arrow and off I went. As I progressed, the arrow moved very slowly along the green highlighted route with me. However, I did notice that every couple of minutes the red arrow would turn back into the stop sign, even though I was still moving. But this only lasted 1-3 seconds and when it returned back to the arrow, it would move forward along my route to reflect where I was. This transition did NOT freeze the program or my iPhone though.

Next I decided to try it back in the truck at slow speed so I cleared the route, changed it back to Automobile in the settings and set my destination to Home. I purposely then drove for about 2 kms at speeds between 5-40 kph and never once did the red arrow stop moving or change back to the red circle as it does when I come to a complete stop.

Also, I should qualify my findings by saying that since my last post I have purchased the Magellan Car Kit. So the results of my test were based on two different set-ups. Hand-held iPhone 3GS for Pedestrian mode and docked in the Magellan Car Kit for Automobile mode.

And just as an aside, two thumbs up for the Magellan Car Kit. While it is a little pricey, I believe that it is money well spent if you want to utilize your iPhone to its fullest extent. For me it is a perfect solution to use in rental cars when I travel.

I hope this helps.

Road Warrior
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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 24 mai 2010 :  23:27:23  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Seems to be the way it should behave, "slow speed" use has always been a problem on GPS systems as you have to find a compromise between high sensitivity (i.e. it give you a position) and accuracy (i.e. you don't want the position to be too far off). This was discussed in detail in the SiRFdemo tutorial (static navigation) article back in the day, particularly "4. STATIC NAVIGATION".

The problem is made far worse on smartphones that have tiny GPS antennas and tons of potential RF interference (screen, GSM, UMTS, WiFi, Bluetooth, etc...). Not much can be done really apart from adding sensors like the compass/accelerometer.

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motif1

14 Posts

Posted - 01 juin 2010 :  13:56:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Rick762, thanks for testing that. I guess there is slow speed and then slow speed. Maybe it's something they all have a problem with, and I've seen complaints about Sygic for losing its function at slow speed. I haven't personally seen it for either Sygic or Navigon on iPhone at very slow (walking). But Copilot on winmo walking definitely has a problem with this, at least in my hands. The problem is that it freezes with the red arrow showing, not even the red stop sign, so you don't have any indication that the whole thing stopped working and you have to re-start the program. Other than that I like the program including the clean map graphics, and the good itinerary pre-planning. But I wonder why some people have such a problem with this, and others not.
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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 12 août 2010 :  01:11:43  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not exactly the iPhone version but the iPad version has to be close enough and I have some feedback after driving around the SF Bay Area for a week. The graphics are really nice and I've found a decent place to put the iPad...as long as I don't take sharp turns :



I got a 3G AT&T microSIM for my iPad too so I can look up addresses easily, a big plus compared to my "unconnected" nuvi 3790T.

Unfortunately there are three big problems :

1. It doesn't display any speed limits, which is a big handicap here where many large streets have a 25mph speed limit

2. The routes are often "funny", you get there eventually but more often than not it doesn't appear to be the best or fastest route. Case in point, driving 4 miles on a road limited to 25/35 vs 3 miles on a freeway and 1 on that same road.

3. Quite a few roads are incomplete and that's really surprising after using Navteq and TeleAtlas maps in Europe for years. It hasn't put me in a fix so far, but that's certainly made me lose confidence and I'm glad I have the nuvi 3790T on the windshield.

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Rick762

Canada
75 Posts

Posted - 12 août 2010 :  14:46:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, that map is GIGANTIC! Great for us older folks.....never have a problem trying to read those tiny street names again. And yes, I still get the occasional weird routing suggestions on CoPilot too.

Just as an aside, there is a 2-part YouTube video showing a car audio installer who has made a custom iPad mount for his unit. I think it is in a 2009 Toyota Highlander and he has removed the stock radio and fabricated a mount that you slide the iPad into. It fits perfectly in between the 2 air vents, holds the iPad securely and you can quickly remove the device when you exit the vehicle. Really well done and actually looks stock.

As I have mentioned before, I primarily use my iPhone and CoPilot as a backup because I have an in-dash JVC unit as my primary unit. Well, this past weekend my JVC unit started to act up and as far as I can tell, it's a short somewhere on the circuit board. So I had to pull it out and send it in to the Doctor. So as of Monday I have been using CoPilot as my primary setup.

Today I will be taking a 500 km trip and will be using my iPhone and Magellan car kit to stand in for the JVC. I have my BlackBerry 9700 connected to the Magellan car kit via bluetooth for phone calls and my iPhone connected to my factory stereo via 3.5 mm cable for music and navigation instructions. It took about 30 seconds to set up. It's always good to have a Plan B!

Road Warrior
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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 22 juin 2011 :  02:47:51  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
ALK have just announced a new version of CoPilot for iPhone and it looks pretty exciting : new interface, tap & bend route customization, link to wikipedia. Apparently they're calling it "CoPilot Live Premium" : http://www.flickr.com/photos/copilotlive/sets/72157626958758724/


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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 23 juin 2011 :  03:17:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not available in the Apps store yet.

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gpspassion

94027 Posts

Posted - 23 juin 2011 :  04:06:11  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Right, it's "coming soon".

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