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 English Forums - Hardware
 GPS on the Apple iPhone and iPad - smartphoneGPS.com
 [TOPIC] Navigon for iPhone / iPad - Testing - v1.8
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Page: of 16

way

Canada
32 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  14:17:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion
The other features we need in a hurry, is : traffic information and adding custom POIs, the latter is going to be a problem with the lack of tools to transfer data easily on non jailbroken phones.



Maybe the vendors could look at the custom POI issue in a different way; perhaps they could set up a web page to upload custom POI data and then retrieve the data from the device using 3G or wifi; that way they could reuse their internal APIs for loading custom POIs but instead of loading it from iTunes etc. they get from a secure website. The internet connection must be good for some stuff

Edited by - way on 01 sept. 2009 14:18:30
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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  16:13:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

Yes, that's a huge challenge, SiRF say they have a fix for that with SiRFIV but that remains to be seen, details here : http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/news.asp?id=434

The other features we need in a hurry, is : traffic information and adding custom POIs, the latter is going to be a problem with the lack of tools to transfer data easily on non jailbroken phones.



Custom POIs is one area where an iPhone app. could provide superior usability over a PND.

Say find stuff on Google Maps on a computer and sync those locations to the GPS app. somehow.

There are some iPhone apps. which can sync data to PC or Mac applications over Wifi. That's another possibility although the free Garmin utilities for the Mac aren't much to write home about.
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gpspassion

94046 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  22:33:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, something can certainly be done given the "connected power" of the iPhone, but so far the only synching I've seen has been pretty complex, like ewallet : connecting via USB, putting the iPhone in sync mode and then clicking on a button on the PC app or iDicto : synching via WiFi on the same network. Nothing over 3G, there must be some limitation in the Apple SDK and/or rules.

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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  22:47:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Syncing over Wifi with a computer where you can manage POIs would be one thing.

What would syncing over 3G get you exactly?
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gpspassion

94046 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  22:55:14  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not synching, downloading, downloading content directly, POIs, or via RSS/GeoRSS, it's strange that no app does that so far, must be an Apple limitation.

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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  23:04:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought 3.0 SDK allowed in-app. purchases, so things like eBook readers could push content (not sure if it's over 3G but the app. would obviously have to be running to process the transactions).

Presumably, they could do map updates the same way, without downloading a whole new version of the app., unless for some reason they wanted to embed the maps with the specific apps. or app. bundle.
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 02 sept. 2009 :  00:40:00  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately legal ways of delivering custom POIs via WiFi or in-app purchase to the "virgin" (not jailbroken) iPhone are unpractical. They all require a lot of expensive implementation efforts from the vendors. WiFi solution requires not only in-app communication server to establish secure WiFi link but also some desktop app for Windows and Mac to upload POIs. As an alternative to desktop app they would have to implement within Nav app WebDav server so you can upload POI files from the browser. That's exactly what dedicated apps like AirSharing or SplashId Wallet do and that's not a trivial stuff.

In-app purchase API is simpler but still requires vendors to extend their web sites with upload services, storage, user accounts, etc. That's just unrealistic! Look, most of iPhone Nav vendors don't have even a half decent iPhone web site. Heck, in that many months Navigon can't even provide on their site a User Manual or put on web site and iTunes pages a list of upcoming 1.2 changes.

And jailbreaking iPhone isn't a guarantee since it still requires Nav vendors to build an app infrastructure to pick up POI files. They will never do this just for the minimal percent of jailbroken phones.

Apple badly needs to relax a bit their draconian ways and allow for secure and controlled generic way to sync per app file storage (like Palm Hotsync conduits). Or just expose 3rd party app data file storage as an USB drive like they do with Photos. Expose only directories of apps that request it and allow only non-executable files. These requirements won't break any Apple AppStore monopoly or pose a risk to overall OS stability. At worst users will screw up a particular 3rd party app which could be easily restored. This would be an easiest way to allow things like custom POI. Connect iPhone, open the iPhone App Storage drive and copy to Navigon directory POI file in whatever formal Navigon want (like CSV for example). Then it's up to Navigon how they will choose to implement POI import - either pick-up changed file with predefined name or have some Import POI File menu option.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA

Edited by - klopus on 02 sept. 2009 00:43:26
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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 02 sept. 2009 :  01:06:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I didn't realize Navigon was so poor in this respect. Garmin and I would assume TomTom already has established infrastructure for selling map updates as downloads. So TomTom could presumably use the bandwidth they have to send maps to customers of its iPhone apps.

Garmin also has several utilities, for both Windows and Mac, for managing POIs, although they're unsupported. Probably Navigon doesn't have the same kind of development resources and unless their iPhone apps. sell like hotcakes, it probably won't invest in such.

Couple of years ago, PNDs were hot and then the bottom fell out. Potentially, with the volumes that Apple is shipping, iPhone apps. could be lucrative --certainly higher margins and potentially higher volumes if the pricing was attractive relative to stand-alone PNDs. Of course the iPhone OS and hardware don't yet allow the best PND experiences, especially integration with music and telephony. But that should improve over time, with Apple able to secure more powerful silicon at attractive volume discount pricing. The question is whether Apple will try to drive incremental sales by making the OS and the HW more capable of running GPS apps. which not only equal the performance and feature set of PNDs but exceed them.

Besides higher margin from software, you would think development costs would stabilize, as PND makers target one platform instead of having to develop and support all the various hardware platforms they have for their PND hardware. But like Apple of course, it's uncertain that they could raise SW revenues enough to replace or exceed their HW revenues.

Smart phones are hot right now. But it may be in the end that GPS apps. on smart phones are like phone cameras: okay for basic features but still can't match the performance and features of dedicated devices.

Where that analogy breaks down though is that it's almost impossible to integrate the kind of optics and imaging sensor and electronics in a phone but OTOH, it won't be as difficult to integrate good GPS silicon and especially CPU and GPUs which probably already exceed the CPU/GPUs in most PNDs.
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 02 sept. 2009 :  07:05:59  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Another day another address entry disaster. This time switching states.

Bug:

  • I had NY by default but needed address in NJ. Looooong wait until NJ icon appears. Clicked on it and switched to NY.

  • Typed town

  • Typed street

  • On a 1st attempt to type street number Navigon crashes. Restart doesn't help. Can't parse damn address in Contacts.


Workaround:

  • Switch state to NY

  • Type any town and choose any street

  • Choose any address and click Done.

  • Exit Navigon to make sure that the state you need is now default

  • Repeat address entry - now it works!

  • Nice way to enter an address, isn't it?



NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA

Edited by - klopus on 04 sept. 2009 22:11:49
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 04 sept. 2009 :  22:13:54  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From Navigon's Twitter feed (@NAVIGON_):

"NAVIGON is launching a car kit for the iPhone including a car holder and charger cable to make an ideal positioning... http://bit.ly/ZYdfH"

"Please have a look at the NAVIGON car kit for iPhone here: http://bit.ly/wsMDW"

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA

Edited by - klopus on 04 sept. 2009 22:17:01
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gpspassion

94046 Posts

Posted - 04 sept. 2009 :  22:43:26  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Interesting and sleek, but it looks like a "simple" mount, no power ?

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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 04 sept. 2009 :  23:25:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
NIce but someone has to offer a beanbag mount.
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 05 sept. 2009 :  00:03:02  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

Interesting and sleek, but it looks like a "simple" mount, no power ?


Release says "car holder and charger cable" for whatever it's worth. Doubt though if it has built-in GPS chip a-la TomTom.

What's amazing about Navigon is why they don't announce things like this on their US site (dunno about EU). Heck, they even don't pre-announce version 1.2 features like others do. Even not on iTunes app page. It's just very stupid marketing. No wonder they didn't survive US market with their PNDs.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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gpspassion

94046 Posts

Posted - 05 sept. 2009 :  02:30:58  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think that "charger cable" = you get a cable you plug into your iPhone

Better than nothing but not something you can't get elsewhere and probably cheaper too ;-)

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roberthodgson

4 Posts

Posted - 10 sept. 2009 :  03:18:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Version 1.2 has been released today, Downloading now :)
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