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 GPS on the Apple iPhone and iPad - smartphoneGPS.com
 [TOPIC] Navigon for iPhone / iPad - Testing - v1.8
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 30 juin 2009 :  00:04:29  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
TESTING - NAVIGON FOR IPHONE
Traffic (optional) - Google Local (v1.4+) - Roadsigns
v1.6 : MyRoutes - Facebook+Twitter - Panorama View Option ($10)
v1.7 : Optimized for the iPad (full screen)


Product page on the Navigon site : >> LINK <<


UPDATED 20110414 : v1.80 now available, new maps, Reality Scanner, TrafficCheck, see details on page 16.

UPDATED 20101217 : v1.70 now available, iPad in HD, see details on page 14.

UPDATED 2010709 : Navigon iPhone v1.60 is now available, with new maps.
UPDATED 20100329 : v1.5 is now available via the Appstore with available with : MyRoutes - Facebook+Twitter - Panorama View Option ($10)
UPDATED 20091205 : v1.4 is available with the addition of Google Local as well as other new features see details on page 9.
UPDATED 20091109 : v1.3 is available with the optional traffic module, details on page 8.
POSTED 20090629 - Navigon MobileNavigator for the iPhone 3G and 3GS is now available on the Appstore for €75 with maps of Europe weighing 1.7Gb. It's likely a US version will soon follow as Navigon have recently updated their PND maps to the Q2/2009 FreshMaps (Navteq Q4/2008) even though they are not currently active on the PND market.

My first test runs show this first "turn by turn" navigation solution for the iPhone works well, with a smooth map display and Navigon's typical advanced map rendering that makes the competition look "basic". No "terrain view" as on the 8110 though but the graphics are similar to those of the new 7310 and 8310 PNDs. Route calculations are quite fast too, only route recalculation can be a bit long and it doens't seem the iPhone's oft criticized GPS performance is the cause of this, at least not directly, as I was being tracked on the correct street, just not given a new route to destination fast enough. If you do lose your way in town it might be best to stop for a new route...not something we're used to doing anymore with our powerful PNDs.

This would be my general complaint about the iPhone version of Navigon, it's a competent but limited navigation solution compared to what we've been getting on Windows Mobile devices for years and of course on PNDs. No trip planning, no traffic information (seems like a natural on a connected device like the iPhone though !), no Speedcam alerts or custom POIs, no TTS (Text to Speech), etc...

Here is an overview of the current limitations :
- No traffic information, not good for a connected device that gives you traffic informaion for free on the Google Maps applet
- No Speedcam alerts
- No custom POIs, and it's unlikely POI-Warner or POI:Observer can be adapted for the iPhone in light of its lack of multitasking
- No route list
- No TTS with full street names.
- No trip planning, a usual forte of the Navigon software
- No terrain view like on the 8110, 7310 or 8310.

Call Handling :
- phone rings -> pop-up : call not taken, you go back to the map
- phone rings -> pop-up : call taken -> standard phone screen, end of conversation, Navigon restarts automatically (meaning it had closed down), navigation resumes.
- To make a call, you need to press on the iPhone's only hardware button, i.e. "Home", make your call and then restart Navigon manually and navigation will resume where you left it.

First conclusions : Overall this looks more like a working technology demo than a full blown navigation solution of the caliber we're accustomed to on AIOs or Windows Mobile devices. It's likely Navigon rushed the software to market to be the first and this has served them well based on Appstore numbers, so hopefully they'll add features down the road (for free or for pay ?) but the phone call handling issues seem to be specific to the iPhone platform...Let's stay tuned for more








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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 30 juin 2009 :  00:43:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm looking forward to a comparison with TomTom once it is released! I am in the market for an iPhone navigation app. I have TomTom for Windows Mobile and would be happy if the iPhone version has at least the same functionality. Navigon was also on my list so I appreciate your report.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 30 juin 2009 :  00:50:07  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Sure, we'll have to wait to see what TomTom can do, but based on the demo at WWDC2009 (link in the 3GS topic) it seems it might be quite limited too and the phone call handling is likely going to be a problem too.

I'm hoping Navigon will quickly improve the feature set to get closer to what we get on WM and AIOs, Traffic is clearly a must, but even if they do, will it be for free...

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John R

85 Posts

Posted - 30 juin 2009 :  19:40:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
When the TomTom application arrives, we might have a better idea as to whether some of these limitations are a result of the software itself or restrictions imposed by Apple and their SDK. I have been briefly playing with the Gokivo application (no onboard maps) which, while having some of the issues mentioned above plus some others of it's own, does have TTS with street names and traffic. Gokivo also allows for contact list integration and playing music from within.

Regards,
John Roper
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 30 juin 2009 :  20:09:47  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, it's probably a mix of the two, TTS wouldn't be a limitation of the iPhone though, could you start a topic on Gokivo to share your thoughts on it briefly ?

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John R

85 Posts

Posted - 01 juil. 2009 :  05:15:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Will do. Am making a few notes now and will post as soon as they are "coherent."

Regards,
John Roper
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 04 juil. 2009 :  21:53:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
See my mini-review of AT&T Navigator. In an otherwise disappointing application, the Telenav software has excellent TTS and does street names very well, so it's clearly not an iPhone limitation.

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 05 juil. 2009 :  16:02:49  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks, not very exciting either...added a comment over there.

Another iPhone related problem when I did some testing in Paris on Friday, the GPS performance is ok on the motorway but it just can't keep up in dense urban areas, case in point, it can take several seconds for the position to be updated after a turn, this is not pleasant if you're not sure you made the correct move...




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way

Canada
32 Posts

Posted - 08 juil. 2009 :  01:41:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Took the plunge and purchased Sygic's Mobile Maps America from App Store; will post my initial thoughts once I have played with it. Interesting that these "first generation" TBT applications on iPhone all seem to be sub-par compared to other platforms; each vendor seems to have chosen to "de-tune" their application in different areas.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 08 juil. 2009 :  01:48:14  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Actually Sygic has the same feature set on the iPhone as on Windows Mobile except it doesn't have the usual iPhone interface (scroll, multi-touch, pop-up keyboard, etc..).

In any case, please start a new topic as this one is dedicated to Navigon ;-)

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2009 :  01:26:11  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Still no news for a US version, but Navigon have announced a free update for the European version, notably with the addition of trip planning.

As a side note, "way" has kindly posted his first impressions on Sygic Mobile Maps here : http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=127795 ;-)

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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2009 :  14:08:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The Austrian site www.BenM.at is reporting that Navigon is offering a free Lite version of this application with German, Austrian, Swiss and Lichtenstein maps. One of the limitations is that it does not provide active GPS-based route guidance. I tried to get it (http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=320272051&mt=8) but iTunes tells me it is not available from the US iTunes store. The full version with this limited mapset costs 49.99 Euro.
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 10 juil. 2009 :  15:40:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just got an email from Navigon saying that the "light" version is now available in the US. Here's the text:

I wanted to let you know that the LITE version of the NAVIGON MobileNavigator for the iPhone (North America) is now available in the App Store. This version is for free and also runs on iPod Touch devices. It has no active route guidance, but it is equipped with the latest map material and the capability of displaying nearby POIs (points of interest).

The LITE version can also simulate the full version which will include active route guidance and many of NAVIGON’ hallmark features. We expect the latter to go live soon, and I will let you know immediately. text:

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 14 juil. 2009 :  00:27:59  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not sure what they mean by "simulate", a demo mode ?

Anyway here is the iTunes link for the USA "LITE" version for those who want try it : http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=321509945&mt=8 - fast connection only as it weighs in at 1.3GB, like the European version.

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Adelscott

France
19 Posts

Posted - 16 juil. 2009 :  02:04:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hi !
I bought Navigon because the only thing that made me buy an iPhone for the first time was the opportunity to have a nice GPS Navigation Software on a quite wonderfull phone and get rid of my PPC.
After using it in Paris yesterday, I must admit that you can't decently use it in difficult urban areas while at the same time my Loox720 (4 years old I think!) with a HOLUX M1000 (chipset MTK) was running Tomtom 6 with POIs wonderfully.
It would be great if we could use an external GPS receiver like the M1000 with the iPhone.

(My iPhone is a 3GS 32Gb)
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 22 juil. 2009 :  04:49:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The full app has just been released here in the US. Here is an excerpt from the press release I just got from Navigon:

quote:
The map display, for example, switches automatically from­ portrait to landscape view as soon as the iPhone is turned 90 degrees. There is also the option of navigating directly to an address from saved contacts. If the iPhone is used for talking on the phone during navigation, the software resumes automatically after the call has ended. Furthermore, the multi touch function of the iPhone is integrated into the app and allows users to easily zoom in and out the map view with two fingers.

The NAVIGON solution sells for $99.99 and is equipped with maps of North America from NAVTEQ®. It will be available for a promotional price of $69.99 until August 15.

Key features of the NAVIGON MobileNavigator for the iPhone:

* Reality View™ Pro displays photo-realistic 3D views with actual road signs and lane guidance for virtually every highway interchange and exit drivers will encounter.
* Lane Assistant Pro helps drivers prepare to make an upcoming exit or turn by providing a lane map complete with arrows and actual road geometry.
* Speed Assistant with adjustable audio-visual warning.
* Day & Night Mode for map display.
* Direct Access allows navigation to contacts saved in the iPhone's address book.
* Branded POIs and POIs along the route
* 2D and 3D map view.
* Automatic switch between portrait and landscape format.
* Intelligent address entry.
* Real signpost display.


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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 22 juil. 2009 :  10:39:10  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the heads up, based on various experiences with the European version it's probably not worth spending $100 on it, but have you tried the free version ?

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yuprules

131 Posts

Posted - 22 juil. 2009 :  17:31:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's a nifty video of the U.S. version (you'll hear the voice prompt in the middle of the video), text to speech is "suppose" to come soon.[ed]

Edited by - yuprules on 22 juil. 2009 17:32:57
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 22 juil. 2009 :  18:05:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Haven't tried it, but Navigon has promised me the full version for a review so I'll report on it after I've used it for a while.

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2009 :  12:38:16  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, but don't count on it for accurate guidance in town, as per my testing in Paris. You guys should download the free version, it doesn't do turn by turn navigation, but hopefully you'll be able to get an idea of its accuracy in town.

We know the iPhone GPS performance is not great, but it's possible the Navigon application has issues of its own when it comes to using the GPS signal, based on the very long recalculation times after a wrong turn although the position seems to be correct. Could be some heavy "filtering" going on.

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2009 :  19:16:16  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I have the 3G, no difference at the GPS level with the 3GS as far as we know, we discussed that in detail with gatorguy in the 3GS topic, both use the Globallocate Hammerhead v2 chipset, an excellent platform as seen on the latest TomTom ONE series, but that can't seem to deal with the tiny GPS antenna and RF interference (think jammer) of the other iPhone components.

Still looking forward to your comments if you drive around dense urban areas with your 3GS.

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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2009 :  20:47:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not seeing the Lite version, at least from the App. Store on the iPhone itself.

Sounds like iPhone is more suited for navigation on foot, not in cars.


Given that iPhone is often synced with computers, someone should find a way to integrate Google Maps to these GPS apps. Like say a custom Google Map with push pin locations would become POIs or Favorites in the GPS app. once synced or routes drawn out in Google Maps would transfer over.

Navigon cited offline maps as being an advantage for overseas use, which is true because of the exorbitant costs of data roaming. Maybe that's why they didn't bother to integrate traffic?

Anyways, they need to offer a mount and a charger for heavy use as TomTom plans to do.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2009 :  20:51:43  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Doesn't the link for the lite veroisnI posted on the previous page work ? Here it is again : http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewSoftware?id=321509945&mt=8

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 23 juil. 2009 :  21:00:41  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Huh...maybe they stopped it for bandwidth reasons, can't have been too good for their servers to have people download 2Gb of data !

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 24 juil. 2009 :  23:46:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just got the software from Navigon and will try to report on it over the weekend.

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 02 août 2009 :  22:24:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I had the chance to use the new Navigon software on an down and back drive to Washington, DC on Saturday. Covered about 400 miles. To make a long story short, I was favorably impressed in many ways.

The software supports both landscape and portrait views, unlike TeleNav, and I found the landscape view to be preferable. I was unable to listen to voice prompts because my wife has become so sick of listening to them over the years that she threatened mutiny if I didn't shut off the volume! However, the excellent lane guidance and interchange views made voice guidance completely unnecessary. This is saying quite a bit because there are some very complicated interchanges on the route I took. The Navteq maps were impressively up to date given the construction I encountered on the route.

As far as the display goes, it was clear and crisp and the motion of the cursor was fluid, like what I've come to expect from Nav n Go. There was no jerky motion like TeleNav, which moves bit by bit rather than fluidly. I was impressed. I also noticed something interesting when going through the Baltimore tunnel. The display followed me all the way through, even though there was no GPS signal. It was not a completely simulated display, however, because when we stopped, due to traffic, the display stopped tracking and then started up again when we started moving. However, unlike the fluid display outdoors, this display moved forward in little jerks. I wonder what was really going on. I did have cell phone connectivity in the tunnel, but I don't know if that was a factor.

The drive to Washington is high speed, typically 85 mph or so, and there was no noticeable lag in the display. Route calculation was almost as fast as on a PND and recalculation was very fast, as well.

Clearly the software is a work in progress, however. The App Store says that an update will be available soon which will have more functionality, including route planning with multiple stops. However there are some drawbacks that any purchaser will have to evaluate. First, POIs are extremely limited. (It only has airports, tourist attractions, entertainment, sports, convention centers and marinas - a pretty odd choice.) There are no restaurants at all, for example. There is also no avoid road function, so that you can't force a route change, and many other "normal" functions are missing. There is no traffic, but I have found traffic to be generally so useless around here that I didn't miss it.

The GPS sensitivity of my iPhone 3G was adequate for the trip, but there is no way it would have worked in New York City. No matter what the software, if you will be driving in a challenging area, then the iPhone is not for you. It does help, by the way, to use the phone in portrait mode if you get into reception problems, and luckily Navigon accommodates this. The software behaved the same way Guillaume described above when handling phone calls.

The bottom line is that Navigon is currently the best software out there for the iPhone. Given the lack of route planning and POIs it is more of a point to point type of thing and can be very useful if you don't have a PND with you. But given the inherent limitations of the iPhone platform I don't think any software will ever compete with a PND. However, with the introductory price I would recommend it as it can be very useful to have with you. At the full price, however, I don't know, especially since the POI database is so limited. Naturally, you will need a power adapter as the phone won't last very long on its own batteries. I found, by the way, that running the phone for 4 hours down and 4.5 hours back didn't seem to have any deleterious effect.

That leaves TomTom and I wonder about Nav n Go. A couple of years ago they showed me a "concept" app that worked like a charm on the 3G, so it's hard for me to believe that they don't have something in the works.

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 02 août 2009 :  23:37:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Not in the copy they sent me! I can only report on what I've got.

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 03 août 2009 :  01:13:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So did I!

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 03 août 2009 :  16:13:25  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
But didn't you download it from the Appstore since its publicly available ? Anyway I doubt they have several sets of maps. Also remember that with Navigon, depending on how you search, proximity/town/National you will have different levels of detail, National is the lowsest.

Anyway back to the review, it very much mirrors what I found with the Euro version, the v1.1 update does add trip planning which is a plus. The main problem though is the way it handles the already poor GPS data provided by the iPhone, drinving in town is possible but you have to ve very careful to not miss a turn as recalcs are endless (you'll have to stop) or depend on it to check whether you've made the right turn as it updates after many seconds, sometimes 15. Obviously the more "GPS difficult" the area, the worse it gets. Strasbourg was better than Paris and Manhattan would be worse. This has been reported to Navigon and they are looking into it.

Having said that, I must say it came in handy the other day when I had forgotten my iPhone and needed to get to a place I'd never been in the suburbs of Strasbourg, with a coated windhsield to boot. I was extra careful to make the right turns and got there safely ;-)

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 03 août 2009 :  17:38:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
No, they had me download it from their FTP server and then provided me with a provisioning file. Well, you found the "problem". What a confusing interface! The POIs don't fully appear until you search at the "City" level. The ones I mentioned in the review were on the "State" level. It never occurred to me that you had to search that way. Very unintuitive!

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 14 août 2009 :  15:07:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Navigon has updated their software. It also looks as if text to speech and traffic are coming. Here is the press release I received this morning:
quote:
NAVIGON AG, the leading innovator in the navigation market, today announced the availability of a free update for its North American version of the MobileNavigator for the iPhone.

The free update adds a couple of new features and enhancements to the MobileNavigator. NAVIGON’s route planning function known from the companies PND line enables users to plan a route with different destinations ahead of time. Taking advantage of the iPhone’s own functionalities, a call POI function allows to directly call the number of a POI such as a restaurant or hotel by simply clicking on the number. It is also possible to save it to the user’s contacts. Furthermore, the update provides an optimized volume control when navigating and using the integrated iPod function of the iPhone at the same time. It also allows to decide which POIs should be displayed in the map view.

All current users of the NAVIGON MobileNavigator will get notified by the App Store and can download the update for free. New customers who buy the software in the iPhone App Store will from now on automatically receive an updated version. “NAVIGON is committed to providing the best navigation solution for the iPhone and is constantly working on new features,” said Gerhard Mayr, Vice President World-Wide Mobile Phone & New Markets of NAVIGON AG. “Our customers can expect a lot more functions to come, and spoken street names (text-to-speech) is one of the next additions that will follow soon. Of course we are also looking into offering a powerful real-time-traffic service.”

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 14 août 2009 :  19:05:51  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, v1.1 has been available in Europe for a month or so and has added some useful features, like the navigation info display on the map. Trip planning is a plus, but nowadays with Google Maps trip planner it's not as needed as it used to be on mobile apps and I'm not sure iPhone users will go on a cross-country trip with only their iPhone ;-)

Nice to see traffic information mentioned at the end of the PR, that's really what these iPhone GPS apps need in a hurry!

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AndreTheGeek

Canada
174 Posts

Posted - 19 août 2009 :  00:03:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just bought the North American version of this software. It looks good, but my first test of it was not good.

Part way to my destination, one turn was announced about 5 seconds after I had already made the turn. Too slow to be useful. About halfway to my destination, the voice prompts stopped functioning. Even pressing on the little arrow to repeat the instructions resulted in nothing.

While the software shows promise, I must say that after spending $69 on it.... FAIL. If it's not fixed soon, I will be pestering the App store for a refund.

Nuvi 350 - BMW 335i (and no good mounting solution)
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 19 août 2009 :  01:04:51  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Unless you're driving in a dense urban area that shouldn't happen, see the review in the first message. You should try rebooting your iPhone.

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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 25 août 2009 :  01:53:01  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, I finally took a plunge and installed Navigon on my iPhone 3G 8GB. Still 2.5GB left. Here's few initial observations about overall performance after half an hour drive thru Manhattan from TriBeCa to Midtown:

- Rout calc and recalc speeds are, funny enough, faster than my Nuvi 755. Dunno if it's more attributable to hardware or software differences between iPhone/Navigon or Garmin nuvi platforms. Probably Navignon's software rout calculation engine is simply more efficient than Garmin's even on comparable (or worse?) hardware.

- GPS acquisition time and reliability is more or less on par with stock Maps app which isn't to say is good but still tolerable. At least it shows that Navigon doesn't make iPhone GPS hardware worse than it already is. Garmin in Midtown with all these skyscrapers around wasn't all that much better anyway.

- Map redraw smoothness and speed is nothing to write home about but still sort of better than expected. Signal lag was really hard to judge at slow speeds. I would say overall Navion on iPhone is on par with low-level previous gen PND like my old Nuvi 270.

- Some non map related parts of Navigon's UI are sluggish to the point of being at times annoying especially when you prepare to navigate. Address entry makes you wait for lists of available selections, you touch a button and wait till something happens, etc. Probably it's better on 3Gs. On the other hand switching from 3D to 2D maps is seamless so I think Navigon has some UI code optimization to do.

- Functionally Navigon iPhone is pretty bare, even more limited than a cheap previous gen PND like Nuvi 270. Things like TTS and real-time traffic not speaking of seemingly basic stuff like rout preview/simulation, list of next directions steps, zoom in/out 3D map, detour, etc. were dearly missed compared to my Nuvi 755. Though maybe I didn't figure out yet how to do some of the basic things I'm complaining about. Why Navigon (and TomTom) can't switch automatically between day and night views is beyond me.

- 3D Map view is on one hand well designed and detailed with a nice sense of horizon and flexible selection of POIs to show. On the other hand I didn't figure out how to zoom it in/out and too much of limited screen estate, especially on top, is wasted. I hate how Navigon aligns street names with street direction instead of showing names parallel like everybody else does.

- Address entry is also hit and miss. Overall I think it's more flexible and better designed than the one on Nuvis. Theoretically ability to use iPhone Contacts is very welcome but in practice I found it to be somewhat fiddly. It works only when (1) address in a contact is formatted exactly according to the field labels, (2) uses abbreviations that Navigon understands and (3) exact address how it's parsed by Navigon is in Navteq database. Having zip code in a Contact sometimes helps but sometimes doesn't. I found that if even one of these conditions is not met not only Navigon will reject the contact but it may crash. I had especially bad luck with the following address in Williamsburg, Brooklyn: "162 S 3rd Street, New York, NY 11211". Google Maps, MapQuest and Nuvi had no problem locating it. Only Navigon not only couldn't find it but without "S" (as in South) would simply crash. Latter applied even to manual address entry.

- Most annoying behavior is that when you explicitly (not because of the call) exit Navigon app it doesn't remember where it was. Moreover when you start it later it won't show you the map until it obtains the GPS lock. Which obviously precludes any rout simulation or poking around in a map. That's silly since biggest attraction as opposed to the stock Maps app is that Navigon has all the maps right here on the device and you can't utilize it without GPS signal!

Nonetheless my overall feeling so far is that I was expecting much worse in performance and much better in functionality. iPhone/Navigon combo actually seems to be usable and probably would be worth $70 with TTS and all $100 (but not more) with some basic functional additions mentioned above and most importantly iPhone connectivity utilization like real-time traffic and POIs. At a current state it's more like $50 tops but somehow I don't regret buying it (yet).

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA

Edited by - klopus on 25 août 2009 01:54:18
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gpspassion

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Posted - 25 août 2009 :  18:37:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nice detailed feedback, thanks for sharing!

I take it you are running v1.1 of the Navigon software, performance has been markedly improved since v1.0, especially for route recalculations.

Did you feel you needed to switch to 2D in the city ? Navigon's 3D mode is second to none on the road but it too zoomed out for me in town as I prefer a quick glance at the moving map rather than at the static pictograms.

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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 26 août 2009 :  02:25:59  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
iTunes had 1.1 and I never ran 1.0 before so I can't comment on performance improvements. Though as I said non map related UI delays can be maddening as well a almost 30 seconds startup time.

Yes, when driving in Manhattan I frequently had to switch to 2D view. GPS was loosing signal intermittently and I wish Navigon would announce when it looses and acquires back the lock via voice. Currently it just stops talking all together as though the car had stopped. If you don't glance at the screen from time to time you may assume that all is good while in a meantime you already lost the turn. Btw, most of UI slowness (press the button and nothing happens kind) shows when Navigon struggles to hold on to GPS signal. Probably CPU is being hogged and/or they don't multithread properly.

I also noticed that as with Maps if you switch off WiFi, BT and 3G GPS sensitivity improves noticeably. Guess 4 tiny radio chips and antennae crammed together interfere a lot. It seems that 3G has the most bad influence followed by WiFi so probably no need to fret about BT.

After testing Navigon a little more my opinion basically didn't change - it's totally usable as a backup GPS unit but I wouldn't trust it for any critical navigation in unfamiliar cities. On open road and in suburbs it's totally fine.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 26 août 2009 :  03:46:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I tried using my Garmin Nuvi 670 in Manhattan. Could not get a signal. One was like the 12th floor of the W hotel in Midtown East.

Also tried it on Broadway around the mid 40s. Nothing.

Should have tried it in Central Park.
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gpspassion

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Posted - 27 août 2009 :  01:06:53  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well if it's doing a warm fix, i.e. hasn't been used for 4+ hours, it's going to struggle to download the ephemeris data and get a fix, the iPhone gets them from the network.

@klopus - interesting observations about the signal quality with 3G/WiFi off. I tried putting it in Aiplane mode the other day, unfortunately that also kills GPS!

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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 27 août 2009 :  01:22:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wait, these GPS apps. require a data connection? I thought one reason for these apps. was that maps were stored locally, not streamed like Google Maps.

Wifi isn't an option when you're on the road and 3G isn't an option unless you like paying for international data roaming.

Maybe these PND makers are writing iPhone apps. to up-sell people to the PNDs.
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gpspassion

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Posted - 27 août 2009 :  01:58:30  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
er...no, I was referring to the actual GPS positionnin, smartphones like the iPhone have that advantage over AIOs is that they are connected to a network, so they can use some of its features for optional positioning assistance, it's called AGPS. You can get more details about "Time to First Fix" here http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=157&page=3#TTFF

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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 27 août 2009 :  02:06:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Pretty sure one of the "features" listed for one of these apps. was offline map storage. I understand AGPS but is it possible for the iPhone GPS to fix without a data connection?

I'm going to Andalucia next month and I'm going to tote my Garmin in addition to my iPhone (I haven't bought any GPS apps.). Got international voice but not international data so will turn data roaming off. I might consider buying one of these apps. since my Garmin maps are 2-3 years old. But if these GPS apps. don't work without a data connection, then no point in buying any of them.

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gpspassion

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Posted - 27 août 2009 :  02:12:36  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
The answer is above "for optional positioning assistance".

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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 27 août 2009 :  13:29:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
It will probably work without a data connection, but it might take a long time to get the first fix. I am going to Germany next month and I'll probably get the lowest end international data roaming plan for the month that includes the weeks I'll be there. That plan covers something like 20 MB of data for something like $25.00. Better than perhaps $200 to transfer that amount of data without a plan.
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gpspassion

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Posted - 27 août 2009 :  13:37:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yep, I wish I had done that when I was to Switzerland earlier this year and ran a €90 bill for 13Mb of data after using my phone as a modem and my computer downloaded an anti-virus update in the background.

It remains to be seen whether AGPS will work while roaming, it should, in fact it should not use up any of your bandwidth, but it's going to be hard to verify as the data is small.

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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 27 août 2009 :  17:09:33  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I did try to switch off the data and both Maps and Navigon worked though it took longer to get initial fix.
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gpspassion

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Posted - 27 août 2009 :  19:38:18  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for checking, how long had it been since you'd used Navigon ? Up to 2 hours (theoretically 4) you shouldn't see much difference as the ephemeris data downloaded previously should still be good.

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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 27 août 2009 :  23:02:06  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nah, I used last time yesterday more than 10 hours ago.

BTW, here's a link well buried on Navigon's dismal US site (what not even a User Manual!?) to an official press release that hypes upcoming in 1.2 new features in an almost indecipherable officalize lingo: http://www.navigon.com/site/int/en/press/archive/2009/549 .

It seems to refer to the EU version so let's hope the new stuff gets to our colonial backwaters also. There are rumors all over the net that the new version 1.2 was already submitted to Apple. If Navigon didn't sneak in some nude pics or VOIP there's hope that Apple won't reject it outright or can it researching for half a year. But then with all this crazy AppStore process who knows.

Here's a skinny on new 1.2 features:

* TTS - Hooray! Technology by SVOX AG in Zurich. I'm really looking forward hearing "Martin Luther King Memorial Skyway" pronounced with Swiss German accent :)

* iPod Control - Nav on iPhone is already shaky enough without iPod playing it in the background so I'll pass.

* Location Sharing - Seems like an especially convoluted way to send emails from within an app.

* Auto Day/Night Switch - Hooray! They finally discovered that iPhone has a clock after all. Now Navigon needs to patent it so that TomTom won't still the idea :)

Instead of "Location Sharing" they really could have worked on their iPhone web page so it has at least anything resembling useful not speaking of User's Manual and real FAQ. Also hope that in plans for 1.3 are such basic things as proper rout preview (so you can see how profile affects proposed rout) as well as easy accessible from the map screen the list of next maneuvers. Things like real-time traffic is clearly a 2.0 material.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA

Edited by - klopus on 27 août 2009 23:50:16
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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 28 août 2009 :  22:24:16  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I decided to get Navigon and now have purchased both US and European versions.

So far I'm happy with it and concur with the observations from klopus.

A couple of things I noticed:

- My version does remember where it was when I exited the app with the Home key. When I restart it takes a few seconds, but even while the GPS shows red, I can see where I was before and can interact with the map.

- I paired my phone to the BT system of my car and Navigon actually uses that connection to give audio directions. On the one hand it is nice, but on the other I haven't found a good way to get sound back onto the phone in case I want to listen to something else on the radio. I haven't played with this long, so I may have overlooked something.

- Initially I just connected to the car stereo over Bluetooth and was getting navigation prompts. Then a call came in and after I hung up Navigon restarted. At that time the iPod function was also turned on automatically! It was cool to hear my music. It automatically turned down when a new navigation prompt comes along. I can see where the iPod controls are necessary within Navigon because I had no way to do anything to my songs without exiting Navigon.

- Once the iPod plays over the stereo it insists on restarting where it left off when I get in the car. I have checked that it isn't playing anything while I am out, but when I get in it picks up where it left off. I don't think Navigon has anything to do with this. It is just something between the phone and the car going over Bluetooth.

BTW, I have an iPhone 3GS and I was driving a new Acura TL.

Edited by - Enrique Muyshondt on 28 août 2009 22:26:07
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 29 août 2009 :  00:19:22  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nice info Enrique.

quote:
Originally posted by Enrique Muyshondt


- My version does remember where it was when I exited the app with the Home key. When I restart it takes a few seconds, but even while the GPS shows red, I can see where I was before and can interact with the map.


I probably need to retract my initial observations about this. On my iPhone Navigon behaves kind of weird in this respect. On few first uses it got stuck on red GPS top line and wouldn't show the map that was there during last session. But now it indeed remembers the map that was there when the app was closed. Go figure.

What's confusing is that touching upon Navigon startup Show Map button from the main screen takes its sweet 30 or even more seconds until anything happens. BTW, after iPhone reset (Home + Power buttons) Navigon doesn't remember any map.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA

Edited by - klopus on 29 août 2009 04:03:51
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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 29 août 2009 :  09:06:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the point about playing audio over Bluetooth is not really Navigon, but rathr the phone itself. I have to go into the iPod application to switch back to playing sounds over the phone's speaker.

Yesterday I was in a parking garage. When I started Navigon it said something about not having enough satellite reception and I couldn't get to the map. After a short time outside it had the red satellite bar, but no lock, and then I was able to get to the map.
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gpspassion

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Posted - 29 août 2009 :  12:41:33  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's interesting that the voice prompts are being passed over Bluetooth automatically, wonder if it's over the Bluetooth A2DP profile or just handsfree. If it's the latter it would be of interest to bikers or even to drivers who want to get the prompts in a Bluetooth earphone, will have to try that.

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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 30 août 2009 :  15:25:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I think the iPhone is using A2DP since it also plays music that way. Even if I don't use navigation, as soon as I start the car it starts playing a song where it previously left off (assuming the car is still set to play the Bluetooth auxiliary input).

I didn't double check, but it sounded like the song was playing in stereo.

Edited by - Enrique Muyshondt on 30 août 2009 15:26:32
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 30 août 2009 :  20:20:21  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
With more usage my enthusiasm for Navigon is fading. Now my biggest problem isn't major GPS real-time functionality (which is fine) but something that usually is taken for granted - address entry and, maybe, map quality.

I find more and more non POI addresses that just impossible to enter no matter how you do it - manually or from iPhone contacts. Navigon either crashes or couldn't find a totally legit address. All this is accompanied by long one minute or more delays with subsequent crash. And I'm not talking about new developments in some boonies. That's Brooklyn, Manhattan and Providence (capital of Rhode Island) for all sakes!

For example just try "277 Park Avenue, New York, NY". That's a huge 25 year old office skyscraper stretching 47 to 48 street block between Grand Central and Waldorf Astoria. Navigon usually crashes when I'm typing first "2" of "277". All that after painfully slow process of getting through state change from NJ to NY and entering "New York" and then "Park Avenue". If I enter zip code "10172" it goes wild and starts to suggest totally irrelevant NYC places. Trying to Navigate to the same address from Contacts results either in crash or a list of irrelevant addresses. Funny enough the "270" building just across on the other side of Park is easily found. This story with old totally legit and popular addresses repeats itself in many places including Brooklyn, Providence, etc. I would say I can't navigate to at least 40% of addresses. Needless to say that Google, Garmin and MapQuest have no problems with any of these.

To me it looks like Navigon's supposedly recent Navteq map is screwed up. Maybe compared to Garmin's Navteq map they compressed it too much, thrown stuff out of it or just introduced bugs. Then there's a definite bug in address search software that causes huge delays and crashes when address can't be find. If you look at iTunes Navigon reviews you'll notice that when people use the app longer they start to complain about similar address issues.

So, those with NA maps can you please try "277 Park Avenue, New York, NY" to confirm that this is not some weird conflict on my iPhone 3G 8GB?

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 31 août 2009 :  02:52:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I tried the Park Avenue address and the app crashed after I typed the r. I got thrown bak to the home screen. I then went and selected NY City Metro instead of just Ny and everything worked. I then tried New York again and this time everything seemed to work. I was given a choice of 4 different 277 Park Ave in different zip codes.

There definitely seems to be a bug somewhere.

I didn't see a way to just enter 10172 but I'll try that when I figure it out. It wasn't one of the zip codes offered for the Park Ave address.

Continued : I figured out how to enter the zip code, but 10172 doesn't work. I start entering 1017 and at that point the only choices are 10175 and 10176. 10175 only has 5th Avenue and a Verizon POI as street choices.

Edited by - Enrique Muyshondt on 31 août 2009 14:48:14
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 31 août 2009 :  06:04:04  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thank Enrique. It didn't occur to me to use NY City Metro instead of simply New York.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  03:12:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I also wanted to mention that on my 3GS address searching works well and quickly. As I was trying the searches above I would get updated choices as soon as I typed the next letter. The Navigon application is responsive and easy to use. If only there was a way to keep it running when a call comes in, it would be all I need for navigating.

So far I own Mapopolis, TomTom and Garmin Mobile XT on Windows Mobile and now Navigon on iPhone. Mapopolis is dead an not really competition to any of the other ones. The other three all have some pluses and minuses. None stands out as far superior to the others, and any one of them could be favorite for different users.

For me, I like the TomTom interface slightly more than Garmin, but Garmin has more free features, like traffic and location based services. For the iPhone I went with Navigon because it was significantly cheaper and I liked their demo. The graphics are nicer than the other two, but their street names are harder to read. It is also subject to the iPhone limitation of shutting down when a call comes in. I only started using it this week so I'll have to see how I like it after I've had more time with it.
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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  03:41:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The thing to look forward to is an app. which advances usability beyond what the PNDs offer. Instead of going forward and back a lot like my Garmin Nuvi, you would hope for a more branching interface with easier UI for searching POIs and adding favorites.

But right now, it sounds like all these apps. aren't quite up to replicating the UIs of the PNDs, never mind surpassing them.
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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  05:09:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Navigon does pretty much everything my TomTom 340S PND does, except for the Text to Speech reading of street names (promised for a future upgrade of Navigon). The only issue is that it f a call comes in the application exits and has to start over when I hang up. That takes valuable time when you are driving. The one thing it is not as good with is holding on to the satelite signals due to the less than optimal GPS implementation.

The iPhone does offer a lot of potential since it has a data connection and there could be a lot of location based services offered. That potential has yet to be realized but it is more than what a PND can offer.
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  05:32:51  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
@Enrique Unfortunately both of your gripes (lack of multitasking and suboptimal GPS) are limitations of iPhone stock (non jailbroken) OS and hardware and not the fault of Nav apps. Concerning GPS performance I'm afraid that even with the good GPS chip it's very hard to get proper sensitivity with small internal antenna crammed along with 3 other radios into such a slim body like iPhone.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  10:27:02  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, that's a huge challenge, SiRF say they have a fix for that with SiRFIV but that remains to be seen, details here : http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/news.asp?id=434

The other features we need in a hurry, is : traffic information and adding custom POIs, the latter is going to be a problem with the lack of tools to transfer data easily on non jailbroken phones.

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way

Canada
32 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  14:17:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion
The other features we need in a hurry, is : traffic information and adding custom POIs, the latter is going to be a problem with the lack of tools to transfer data easily on non jailbroken phones.



Maybe the vendors could look at the custom POI issue in a different way; perhaps they could set up a web page to upload custom POI data and then retrieve the data from the device using 3G or wifi; that way they could reuse their internal APIs for loading custom POIs but instead of loading it from iTunes etc. they get from a secure website. The internet connection must be good for some stuff

Edited by - way on 01 sept. 2009 14:18:30
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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  16:13:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

Yes, that's a huge challenge, SiRF say they have a fix for that with SiRFIV but that remains to be seen, details here : http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/news.asp?id=434

The other features we need in a hurry, is : traffic information and adding custom POIs, the latter is going to be a problem with the lack of tools to transfer data easily on non jailbroken phones.



Custom POIs is one area where an iPhone app. could provide superior usability over a PND.

Say find stuff on Google Maps on a computer and sync those locations to the GPS app. somehow.

There are some iPhone apps. which can sync data to PC or Mac applications over Wifi. That's another possibility although the free Garmin utilities for the Mac aren't much to write home about.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  22:33:22  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, something can certainly be done given the "connected power" of the iPhone, but so far the only synching I've seen has been pretty complex, like ewallet : connecting via USB, putting the iPhone in sync mode and then clicking on a button on the PC app or iDicto : synching via WiFi on the same network. Nothing over 3G, there must be some limitation in the Apple SDK and/or rules.

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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  22:47:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Syncing over Wifi with a computer where you can manage POIs would be one thing.

What would syncing over 3G get you exactly?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  22:55:14  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not synching, downloading, downloading content directly, POIs, or via RSS/GeoRSS, it's strange that no app does that so far, must be an Apple limitation.

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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 01 sept. 2009 :  23:04:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought 3.0 SDK allowed in-app. purchases, so things like eBook readers could push content (not sure if it's over 3G but the app. would obviously have to be running to process the transactions).

Presumably, they could do map updates the same way, without downloading a whole new version of the app., unless for some reason they wanted to embed the maps with the specific apps. or app. bundle.
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 02 sept. 2009 :  00:40:00  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately legal ways of delivering custom POIs via WiFi or in-app purchase to the "virgin" (not jailbroken) iPhone are unpractical. They all require a lot of expensive implementation efforts from the vendors. WiFi solution requires not only in-app communication server to establish secure WiFi link but also some desktop app for Windows and Mac to upload POIs. As an alternative to desktop app they would have to implement within Nav app WebDav server so you can upload POI files from the browser. That's exactly what dedicated apps like AirSharing or SplashId Wallet do and that's not a trivial stuff.

In-app purchase API is simpler but still requires vendors to extend their web sites with upload services, storage, user accounts, etc. That's just unrealistic! Look, most of iPhone Nav vendors don't have even a half decent iPhone web site. Heck, in that many months Navigon can't even provide on their site a User Manual or put on web site and iTunes pages a list of upcoming 1.2 changes.

And jailbreaking iPhone isn't a guarantee since it still requires Nav vendors to build an app infrastructure to pick up POI files. They will never do this just for the minimal percent of jailbroken phones.

Apple badly needs to relax a bit their draconian ways and allow for secure and controlled generic way to sync per app file storage (like Palm Hotsync conduits). Or just expose 3rd party app data file storage as an USB drive like they do with Photos. Expose only directories of apps that request it and allow only non-executable files. These requirements won't break any Apple AppStore monopoly or pose a risk to overall OS stability. At worst users will screw up a particular 3rd party app which could be easily restored. This would be an easiest way to allow things like custom POI. Connect iPhone, open the iPhone App Storage drive and copy to Navigon directory POI file in whatever formal Navigon want (like CSV for example). Then it's up to Navigon how they will choose to implement POI import - either pick-up changed file with predefined name or have some Import POI File menu option.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA

Edited by - klopus on 02 sept. 2009 00:43:26
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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 02 sept. 2009 :  01:06:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I didn't realize Navigon was so poor in this respect. Garmin and I would assume TomTom already has established infrastructure for selling map updates as downloads. So TomTom could presumably use the bandwidth they have to send maps to customers of its iPhone apps.

Garmin also has several utilities, for both Windows and Mac, for managing POIs, although they're unsupported. Probably Navigon doesn't have the same kind of development resources and unless their iPhone apps. sell like hotcakes, it probably won't invest in such.

Couple of years ago, PNDs were hot and then the bottom fell out. Potentially, with the volumes that Apple is shipping, iPhone apps. could be lucrative --certainly higher margins and potentially higher volumes if the pricing was attractive relative to stand-alone PNDs. Of course the iPhone OS and hardware don't yet allow the best PND experiences, especially integration with music and telephony. But that should improve over time, with Apple able to secure more powerful silicon at attractive volume discount pricing. The question is whether Apple will try to drive incremental sales by making the OS and the HW more capable of running GPS apps. which not only equal the performance and feature set of PNDs but exceed them.

Besides higher margin from software, you would think development costs would stabilize, as PND makers target one platform instead of having to develop and support all the various hardware platforms they have for their PND hardware. But like Apple of course, it's uncertain that they could raise SW revenues enough to replace or exceed their HW revenues.

Smart phones are hot right now. But it may be in the end that GPS apps. on smart phones are like phone cameras: okay for basic features but still can't match the performance and features of dedicated devices.

Where that analogy breaks down though is that it's almost impossible to integrate the kind of optics and imaging sensor and electronics in a phone but OTOH, it won't be as difficult to integrate good GPS silicon and especially CPU and GPUs which probably already exceed the CPU/GPUs in most PNDs.
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 02 sept. 2009 :  07:05:59  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Another day another address entry disaster. This time switching states.

Bug:

  • I had NY by default but needed address in NJ. Looooong wait until NJ icon appears. Clicked on it and switched to NY.

  • Typed town

  • Typed street

  • On a 1st attempt to type street number Navigon crashes. Restart doesn't help. Can't parse damn address in Contacts.


Workaround:

  • Switch state to NY

  • Type any town and choose any street

  • Choose any address and click Done.

  • Exit Navigon to make sure that the state you need is now default

  • Repeat address entry - now it works!

  • Nice way to enter an address, isn't it?



NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA

Edited by - klopus on 04 sept. 2009 22:11:49
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 04 sept. 2009 :  22:13:54  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
From Navigon's Twitter feed (@NAVIGON_):

"NAVIGON is launching a car kit for the iPhone including a car holder and charger cable to make an ideal positioning... http://bit.ly/ZYdfH"

"Please have a look at the NAVIGON car kit for iPhone here: http://bit.ly/wsMDW"

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA

Edited by - klopus on 04 sept. 2009 22:17:01
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 04 sept. 2009 :  22:43:26  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Interesting and sleek, but it looks like a "simple" mount, no power ?

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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 04 sept. 2009 :  23:25:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
NIce but someone has to offer a beanbag mount.
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 05 sept. 2009 :  00:03:02  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

Interesting and sleek, but it looks like a "simple" mount, no power ?


Release says "car holder and charger cable" for whatever it's worth. Doubt though if it has built-in GPS chip a-la TomTom.

What's amazing about Navigon is why they don't announce things like this on their US site (dunno about EU). Heck, they even don't pre-announce version 1.2 features like others do. Even not on iTunes app page. It's just very stupid marketing. No wonder they didn't survive US market with their PNDs.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 05 sept. 2009 :  02:30:58  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I think that "charger cable" = you get a cable you plug into your iPhone

Better than nothing but not something you can't get elsewhere and probably cheaper too ;-)

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roberthodgson

4 Posts

Posted - 10 sept. 2009 :  03:18:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Version 1.2 has been released today, Downloading now :)
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 10 sept. 2009 :  04:37:26  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
@roberthodgson Cool, thanks for being a guinea pig :) Let us know your impressions.

On a side note. Today I played with Navigon on my friend's 3GS 32GB and I'll tell ya compared to my 3G 8GB it feels like almost a totally different app. UI feels much snappier and all problems and crashes with address entry are gone. I guess crashes are happening when you try to enter information while Navigon still works in a background looking for suggestions while you type and also trying to acquire the GPS signal. On 3GS all prompts and suggestions happen almost instantaneous while you type so there's little actual concurrency. But slower 3G reveals bad Navigon's multi-threaded programming, probably bad thread synchronization and data protection.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 10 sept. 2009 :  12:00:56  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks, I'd been toying with the idea of upgrading to the 3GS...getting harder to resist ;-)

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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 10 sept. 2009 :  13:45:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I love my 3GS. You should go for it!
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 10 sept. 2009 :  15:15:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
New Navigon 1.2 features, here is the press release I received:

quote:
The highly anticipated text-to-speech function lets the NAVIGON MobileNaviagtor announce street names in addition to turn-by-turn directions. It is the first on-board navigation app for the iPhone with this functionality. Instead of only stating “turn right”, the app informs the user to “turn right on to ‘Main Street’, enabling the driver to further concentrate on the road ahead and not become distracted looking for street signs. “With the addition of text-to-speech technology from SVOX, NAVIGON remains on the forefront of iPhone navigation options with the most solid feature set on the market,” said Gerhard Mayr, Vice-President Worldwide Mobile Phones & New Markets at NAVIGON. “SVOX offers high quality text-to-speech technology, characterized by a natural and clear sound as well as a unique polyglot capability – the same voice can speak multiple languages like a native speaker,“ said Eric Lehmann, Chief Sales Officer of SVOX.

NAVIGON, from the outset is committed to not only setting the industry standard for navigation capabilities on the iPhone, but also integrates iPhone-specific functionalities. The new update is the next step in this direction with seamless integration of iPod controls. Drivers can now enjoy the full range of iPod functionalities with a simple one-click from map access to artists, titles, albums, audio books, podcasts and playlist selections. The feature also takes advantage of the shuffle, and automatic playlist generating technology within iPod. The driver can listen to songs again or leave it to the device to generate a random selection.

A new location sharing function makes it convenient to meet-up with friends and acquaintances, on the go. Users can share their own location, an address or a point of interest (POI) such as a restaurant or museum via email. If the recipients are MobileNavigator users, a simple link-tap provides the exact address. The navigation software starts automatically when the link is activated and guides the user directly to the destination, without having to input locations, and waiting for the search results. In addition, the app routinely changes the maps colors switching it between Day and Night Mode determined by time and location. This guarantees optimal display visibility at all times and allows drivers to recognize the route as quickly as possible to improve orientation.

The MobileNavigator transforms any iPhone 3G, equipped with the new Apple OS 3.0 operating system, and any iPhone 3G S into a complete navigation device. It is the only iPhone navigation app on the market featuring Reality View™ Pro which displays 3D views of complex highway interchanges and exits helping drivers to orientate. Also unique are the branded POI’s along the route which make it easier to spot any points of interest that are on the way.

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roberthodgson

4 Posts

Posted - 11 sept. 2009 :  13:46:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am impressed with the new version the speech quality is better then my old Garmin, the Ipod controll feature works great the volume of the song lowers while the navigation turn prompts come up.

I am really glad I went with the Navigon software verse TomTom

If you have not upgraded to the new version you will not be disappointed with the update from what I have seen so far.


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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 11 sept. 2009 :  16:20:43  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I concur with Robert. Even on my slow 8G 3G new version is much smoother and I yet have to crash it.
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jdr

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 11 sept. 2009 :  18:05:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
1. Can anyone confirm that navigon uses only A2dp and does not use handsfree bluetooth? They don't answer email requests and can't find an online manual.
I can connect my cardo scala Fm headset for iphone calls but Navigon voice instructions do not get transmitted over the same unit. this could be a great motorcycle solution if bluetooth worked with the cardo headset.
2. when there is no GPS signal, advanced planning only seems to allow input of destination and not starting points. Am I missing something?
3. Re:NYC park avenue address input, no problem with my iphone 3GS.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 sept. 2009 :  18:40:15  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
1. A2DP only it seems based on Enrique's testing, see the previous pages for details.

2. Use the trip planning mode to input the start point of your choice.

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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 11 sept. 2009 :  19:51:15  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
3. Park Av address is fine only when I use New York City Metro, not New York City which misses many other addresses as well. This distinction is bizarre and took some time to figure. Even with the right selection it presents at 5 choices you have to go one by one since you can't see a zip code.
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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 11 sept. 2009 :  21:51:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
There seems to be a new version of 1.2 up in the App store, at least for the US version. I downloaded it yesterday and the file name was NAVIGON 1.2.ipa. Today I was alerted to an update and the file is NAVIGON 1.2 2.ipa. The European version I downloaded today is NAVIGON 1.2 1.ipa. It did not offer me an updated European 1.2 version yesterday so I don't know if that file changed or not.

The US version copyright screen shows:
Version 1.2.0 (North America build-503 20090825121429)

The European version shows:
Version 1.2.0 (Europe build-503 20090825121429)

Same build number for both versions.

On another note, you can actually navigate while talking on the phone. When a call comes in the app exits, but after you answer you can press the Home button and open the app again and continue navigating where you left off, without hanging up the call.

Today I tried this in my car. I answered with my factory hands-free setup, then restarted Navigon. The navigation instructions even came over the car speakers, in parallel with my phone conversation. The other party did not hear the navigation instruction so everything worked great. Too bad I can't restart the app automatically when a call comes in.

I checked on the Acura Hands Free Link and it only supports A2DP and AVRCP Bluetooth profiles. Thus I think my iPhone must have connected with one of these two. It seems like this would be an iPhone issue more than a Navigon issue.

Edited by - Enrique Muyshondt on 12 sept. 2009 03:24:06
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 12 sept. 2009 :  08:03:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been extremely pleased with the text to speech quality. It may actually be better than any of the units I currently have in pronouncing unusual names correctly. This app is shaping up to be a really first class program. With the addition of a TomTom mount, when it comes out, it may come close to replacing PNDs, IMHO.

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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 12 sept. 2009 :  12:43:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I agree, Paul. In the past I've never really liked TTS and just turned it off. Often the street names were so muddled it was distracting. The TTS in Navigon sounds pretty natural, though. I'm glad I gave Navigon a try. I hope they eventually come out with some location based services. I would like the safety camera databases that are available for TomTom and I'd also like some Google integration like Garmin Mobile XT has. Traffic information and routing according to it would also be welcome.

Edited by - Enrique Muyshondt on 12 sept. 2009 14:37:33
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 12 sept. 2009 :  19:26:00  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
An interesting bit of trivia. MobileNavigator is currently a 2nd top grossing app in the AppStore. TomTom is 7. It's understandable with such expensive apps but that $1 AppBox Pro is 4th top grossing that's really mind blowing.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 17 sept. 2009 :  14:37:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here is a press release I just got from Navigon regarding their live traffic option for their software. It's reasonably priced at $25, with a $20 introduction. They are certainly taking the lead so far. I saw them at a press event in NY yesterday and they are re-opening their PR office in Chicago in the next couple of months, so it looks as if they are still committed to the US market, but just in a different form.

quote:
NAVIGON AG, the leading innovator in the navigation market, today announced live traffic capabilities for its iPhone navigation app. The feature, Traffic Live, will be available in October for the North American version of the MobileNavigator for the iPhone. It utilizes real-time traffic information as well as historic data to calculate better routes that avoid congestion and get drivers to their destination faster.

“By including real-time speed data from drivers on the road, we are adding a next generation traffic service to our app that goes beyond traditional traffic functions which work with radio transmitted messages only. This is clearly raising the bar for iPhone GPS applications,” said Gerhard Mayr, Vice-President Worldwide Mobile Phones & New Markets at NAVIGON. “Providing the driver instantaneous traffic conditions, and offering efficient, alternative routes to the congestion, saves time, fuel and money. The ability to know and navigate around gridlock is a crucial function and we are thrilled to be the first major GPS company to announce this critical, and sought after service for an iPhone navigation app at a flat fee.”

NAVIGON’s new Traffic Live provides the most precise traffic information available today. It uses real-time speed data from over one million drivers across North America including commercial fleets such as trucks and taxis but also regular drivers with a GPS system. So if for example several vehicles on a road report slow speed, the system recognizes congestion and provides an alternate and faster route. The feature also uses an intelligent fusion of information from traffic cameras, speed sensors and conventional traffic messages coming through a radio network. In addition, the system includes historic traffic data to assist with the prediction of road conditions when calculating a route. This includes information about traffic conditions on certain holidays or yearly events, allowing the driver to avoid taking routes that traditionally are congested on a regular basis.

Feature integration into the MobileNavigator is seamless and the functionality is easy to use.

The software automatically includes the traffic information when calculating a route, and users receive immediate on-screen alerts via iconic warnings indicating new incidents and congestion along the current route. The NAVIGON MobileNavigator provides detailed information regarding the severity of the incident and the speed of traffic flow. Based on the real-time traffic warnings and the excellent mapping functionality the user can determine an efficient, alternative route or stay on the course. The software automatically adjusts estimated time of arrival.

NAVIGON Traffic Live will be available as an In App Purchase for $24.99. Users can add the service directly within the MobileNavigator app. For the first four weeks, it will be available for an introductory price of $19.99. After the one-time purchase, users have the service available with no month-to-month service fees[1].

Don't forget the GPSPassion Club!
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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 18 sept. 2009 :  13:30:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cool! I'll purchase this service as soon as it is available.

I am currently using Navigon in Germany and I have been surprised by how well TTS works even for German street names. It pronounces everything pretty clearly.

One thing I haven't found out how to do is how to set the device to use a different language. Right now all instructions are in English. I don't know if there is some way to get the app to speak everything in German (especially since Navigon is a German company!). It's no big deal for me, but I'd like to know this piece of trivia.

Another useful feature I found is the availability of safety cameras. I had to turn them on (they were off by default) in the Options screen, under General, and it pointed out several in the routes I've taken. This is an extra cost feature for TomTom. I had to pay something on the order of 40 or 50 Euros to get a yearly subscription. What I don't know is how Navigon updates its database. I got regular updates through TomTom Home when I had a subscription for traffic and safety cameras.

One thing that TomTom did better was to hold on to the street it was on. This may be related to the GPS hardware rather than the application, though. I'm not sure as there is also a software component to filtering out position error in the GPS signal. When I'm driving on a highway and there's a road close by, the car symbol sometimes jumps off to the road. This happened occasionally with TomTom on Windows Mobile, but it happens much more often with Navigon on the iPhone.

Yesterday on the Autobahn there were also instances where the car symbol would momentarily turn around 180 degrees, as if I was traveling in the opposite direction. It didn't cause a re-reoute, because it was so brief, but I never saw TomTom or Garmin Mobile XT do anything like that.

All in all, I'm still happy with Navigon and I am glad I gave it a try. The user interface is easy to use, and features like TTS, lane assist, traffic and safety cameras are not even announced for TomTom yet.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 18 sept. 2009 :  14:03:46  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Haven't seen these positionning problems on the app, only slow recaculations in v1.0 that have now been fixed, any chance you were in a car with a coated windhsield ?

Careful with the speedcam alerts, it's illegal to use that feature in Germany (in Ireland and Switzerland too), hence it being off by default.

Used the iPod control feature the other day and found it made my iPhone 3G and Navigon rather slow, might be better on the 3GS.

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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 18 sept. 2009 :  15:07:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was in an early to mid 2000's vintage VW station wagon. I don't know what kind of windshield it had. The effects I saw were not too bad and it still beat having to carry around an AIO unit. My co-worker was impressed how in a couple of seconds I found my hotel in the POIs and we were navigating. He's now going to get the app for his newly acquired iPhone.

I didn't know the camera database was illegal in Germany. I did know about Switzerland. The application just says "traffic control" when you approach a location and puts a red dot on the road you are traveling. The dot then fades away after you pass it.

The few times I've used iPod control, it has no noticeable effect on my iPhone 3GS. The S really does stand for Speed :)

One other little nicety is that as you pass a POI pictured on the map, it fades away behind you. That is, it doesn't just disappear at once. As it get further behind you it fades until it is almost invisible as it goes off the screen. Not a killer feature, but it shows some thought was put into the map display. It's just eye candy, but nevertheless nice.
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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 18 sept. 2009 :  16:20:47  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yeah my Nuvi flashed red in France about speed control. I didn't know it had that feature at all and don't see in the menus where to disable it.
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 18 sept. 2009 :  23:05:51  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
@gpspassion Your front page announcement about Navigon's being first with live traffic isn't entirely true. Navigon was just first to announce it, not to deliver. Actually with live traffic ALK CoPilot beat Navigon to the punch with immediate availability today. They just announced Premium Services across all regions for $19.99 per year. To be fair one time Navigon's fee seems to be lifetime (whatever this means). Besides other goodies CoPilot's Premium Services also include live POI search (something Navigon didn't announce) and I believe custom POIs. To top it off they promised free quarterly map updates and web page for users to enter their own map corrections. And CoPilot is still $35. Here's the link: http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS143366+18-Sep-2009+BW20090918

Granted in US CoPilot has very bad reviews on the AppStore (as opposed to EU) mainly due to their dismal maps which as I understand aren't Navteq or TeleAtlas sourced. Today they updated US version with new maps but it's too early to tell from users' reviews if anything changed and if the map is still proprietary. Quite a paradox that CoPilot has inferior maps in US considering that they are located in Princeton, New Jersey.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA

Edited by - klopus on 18 sept. 2009 23:16:05
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 19 sept. 2009 :  03:00:57  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Actually I was referring to the availability of the app, not of traffic ;-) Can you repost your comments about CoPilot in its topic -> http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=128830 - thanks !

Discounts and Assistance/Réductions et Assistance (Club GpsPasSion) / Où commencer?
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jdr

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 03 oct. 2009 :  06:25:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I can't figure out how to enter trip planning mode so I can manually enter a starting point per the suggeston of GPS passion. Please advise.
Also, has anyone found an online manual?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 03 oct. 2009 :  11:59:07  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You need to press on the last button on the bottom right in to get more options, including the trip planning mode.

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 06 oct. 2009 :  22:35:58  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Just got back from San Francisco where I used my iPhone 3G and Navigon for the last 10 days. The software performed just fine and took me back and forth wherever I needed to go. Nothing unusual to report. The iPhone performed perfectly in San Francisco and never lost a GPS lock. I kept it in portrait mode as I got better reception that way. A winning combination as far as traveling goes.

Don't forget the GPSPassion Club!
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 08 oct. 2009 :  04:46:33  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, I also keep iPhone vertical and not only because of better reception. I prefer to see more rout ahead than more surroundings. I used iPhone for the few last trips. Yesterday for comparison reasons I switched back to my standalone Garmin 755T and was surprised how I missed Navigon's real 3D map display and portrait orientation, all this despite iPhone's smaller screen. Though you can't change voices, TTS on Navigon is also better in terms of clarity and correct pronunciation of street names. It's also "richer" with pointed words like "now".

Hope Navigon will add live traffic, rout step by step display and avoidance. If this happens I probably will seriously consider sending my Garmin to eBay.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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kyteflyer

13 Posts

Posted - 11 oct. 2009 :  02:52:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Anybody having success with speed cam and overspeed warnings? Aussie version allows setting up but doesn't deliver at all
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 oct. 2009 :  13:13:53  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You mean neither feature works at all or not fully ? Overspeed seems ok here, I activated speedcams this morning, will check again tonight.

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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 11 oct. 2009 :  22:13:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have seen the speedcams work in Germany just a couple of weeks ago. You do have to be navigating to a destination and drive by a camera. Just driving around I think only shows an icon on the street but doesn't seem to provide any warnings, at least if you are not going over the speed limit. I haven't done a thorough test, though. Could it be that there just aren't any speed cams in the Australian database?

The overspeed works too, but you have to exceed the speed limit by an amount you set up under Options-> General Speed Limits. I didn't try this with the European version but it does work in the US.
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kyteflyer

13 Posts

Posted - 14 oct. 2009 :  16:51:22  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Subsequent to my previous message I have found out that the Navteq maps of Australia are seriously lacking in the information department, so in most cases its the map provider not the software. Navigon is a good looking bit of kit, but in Australia, doesnt do the speed stuff very well (apparently it works somewhat in capital cities). Likewise, the same applies to the other apps which use Navteq rather than the Aussie Sensis/Whereis (oh except tomtom which for some reason, even having the info, chooses not to let its software access it. Cams yes, overspeeding no. grrr. I'm left with Sygic as my best option)
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 16 oct. 2009 :  01:41:02  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Navigon today announced that they submitted Live Traffic update for EU to Apple. As it's customary looks like US version will be announced in next 2 weeks. For UK they also will have paid post code search. Kinda bizarre to pay for such a simple thing. Or is it something inherently more complex with UK codes than with US zip codes?

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 22 oct. 2009 :  13:42:33  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, the UK has zip codes with 7 numbers and in some areas you can't find an area unless you have that zip code, still seems a bit extreme to charge for it!

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darthpaul

18 Posts

Posted - 28 oct. 2009 :  02:16:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The 7 digit post code went live via an in App purchase earlier today.

It costs £1.19 - the 1.3 maps must include the actual data - because there is no furter downloading, the purchase just unlocks it.

Any news of when traffic will appear in the UK? On Navigon's twitter page the UK isn't even mentioned :(
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 30 oct. 2009 :  14:36:46  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Really ? I was under the impression that traffic came with v1.3 ? In the USA only maybe ? Maybe it still needs some fine-tuning !

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 30 oct. 2009 :  16:59:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Navigon is at v1.2 in the US. They say that traffic is coming, but they have never said when it will arrive or on which version number.

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caryrae

USA
591 Posts

Posted - 10 nov. 2009 :  00:14:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Navigon 1.3 is out if you want to start a new topic or not.

-Navigon Traffic Live in U.S. (in app purchase)
-Extended map area search after destination input
-Launching the app in landscape mode is possible now

Edited by - caryrae on 10 nov. 2009 00:15:59
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 10 nov. 2009 :  00:26:47  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good to hear, I'll just go ahead and rename the thread and put a note in the first message. Curious to find out what the traffic looks like in the US, in Europe it's pretty poor so far with tons of "fake" incidents, such as being alerted to traffic problems at toll gates when it's merely people slowing down to pay the toll...FCD (Floating Car Data) is not all "magic" ;-) I'm also being alerted to events not on my route but in a general radius it seems, e.g. on a 10 km trip tonight there were supposedly 34 incidents on my route :

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caryrae

USA
591 Posts

Posted - 10 nov. 2009 :  14:56:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Traffic Live employs crowd-sourced real-time speed data from over 1.3 million drivers including other Navigon app users, commercial fleets such as trucks and taxis, and regular drivers with a GPS system. The feature also utilizes an intelligent fusion of information from traffic cameras, road sensors and conventional traffic messages coming from ClearChannel’s Total Traffic Network.

Navigon Traffic Live is offered as an In App Purchase for $24.99. The app can be purchased for an introductory price of $19.99, till next four weeks
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 11 nov. 2009 :  22:43:31  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, it's impressive on paper, but have you tried it ? So far in Europe it's unimpressive for the reasons I highlighted above. Is it also by Inrix in the US ?

Tonight I did a direct comparison to TomTom's much critisized HD Traffic feed (FMD) on the 950 and I was surprised to see the 950 do better, as it correctly showed the full traffic jam, while the Navigon thought for some reason it had cleared up. I'm disappointed because I would have thought that FCD was more accurate than FMD.

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gatorguy

USA
648 Posts

Posted - 12 nov. 2009 :  00:09:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, it's at least partly based on Inrix traffic data for the US. The giveaway was the reference to 1.3 million traffic probes.

Garmin 1695 / 760 / 255 / Navigon for Android / Navigon 8100T / Garmin Dakota 10 / Geomate
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gatorguy

USA
648 Posts

Posted - 20 nov. 2009 :  19:46:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A heads up that Navigon should have a sale going on for their iPhone app from Nov. 20th thru the 30th. Save $20 on the app or $5 on traffic.

Garmin 1695 / 760 / 255 / Navigon for Android / Navigon 8100T / Garmin Dakota 10 / Geomate
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corrado959

71 Posts

Posted - 27 nov. 2009 :  02:23:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do you need cell coverage for the traffic to work?

thanks,
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 27 nov. 2009 :  02:27:33  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, it's via GPRS, no external RDS TMC receiver for the iPhone avaialable so far...and unlikely to be made available in the future given the "connectedness" of the iPhone ;-)

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corrado959

71 Posts

Posted - 27 nov. 2009 :  03:07:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks gpspassion!
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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 02 déc. 2009 :  06:17:16  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Navigon showed on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/navigon) pictures of already submitted to Apple for approval 1.4.0 version. As far as I can tell additions are:

- Enhanced pedestrian mode
- Built-in Google POI search
- Ability to enter location by coordinates

Internal Google search is nice (personally don't care much about other 2 features) but I would've much preferred to finally have such basic things like rout preview as a turn-by-turn list and ability to block certain parts of rout.

NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 02 déc. 2009 :  11:37:41  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes it's interesting how the GPS software editors are now communicating when they submit an app, not sure whether Apple appreciates the extra pressure to get it approved quickly ;-)

The Google search is an excellent idea indeed, at last we are seeing some more "connectivity" on the iPhone GPS apps.

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 06 déc. 2009 :  02:28:56  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Not sure about the US, but v1.4 is available un Europe and the new Google Local feature is a pleasure to use, very fast searching (at least in 3G) and relevant results. It makes up nicely for Navigon's "challenged" POI searching.

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klopus

USA
146 Posts

Posted - 06 déc. 2009 :  05:38:00  Show Profile  Visit klopus's Homepage  Reply with Quote
My prayers were answered - v1.4 has turn-by-turn directions, see http://www.flickr.com/photos/navigon/4159259559. Navigon has a really strange way of announcing new features - on Flickr before their own site. Go figure...


NYC
Defunct TomTom Nav 6 NA/EU on Palm Treo 680
Garmin nuvi 270 NA/EU & 755T NA, Navigon iPhone NA
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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 06 déc. 2009 :  17:06:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ver 1.4 is not available in the US store yet. I own both US and Europe versions. I also tried setting my country to Germany (where I sit as I type this), but eventually I got a message that my iTunes account is only authorized for US purchases.
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leoj

19 Posts

Posted - 06 déc. 2009 :  17:19:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
@Klopus, thanks for the post on the 1.4 update, they seem to be dribbling this info out bit by bit. I agree that the route directions have been something I've really wanted, even though you could always review a route map, it was never quite satisfactory for me. I also like being able to input coords and search Google for POIs. Any idea when we'll get this update?
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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 06 déc. 2009 :  17:25:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
An Austrian site mentions that the new version also allows manual zoom during routing/navigation. I would really like that feature. Most of the time I'm OK with the auto-zoom, but there are many times I'd like to set my own zoom level. Can anyone confirm that this new feature is included?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 06 déc. 2009 :  17:32:57  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, you just zoom in/out with the usual "two finger expand/squeeze", then when you want to go back to autozoom, you tap "autozoom" at the top of the map as seen below, I played it with it a lot at first ;-)


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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 06 déc. 2009 :  17:59:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Cool! I missed being able to set a fixed zoom level when I switched from iGuidance to TomTom a while back. TomTom lets you zoom (on Windows Mobile, at least) but then returns to what it deems the appropriate level after a few seconds. I prefer to tell it when I'm ready for it to go back to autozoom, like Navigon appears to do now.

When V 1.3 came out it took a day or so for the update to make it to the US. Hopefully tomorrow or the day after I will be able to try it out myself.
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navxguy

133 Posts

Posted - 08 déc. 2009 :  22:59:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's the first complete list I've seen of the potential 13 features in v1.4 ... can't confirm since i'm awaiting US approval.

1.4 New features list:

- SOS / Direct help
- Google Search
- Enhanced Pedestrian Mode
- Turn-by-Turn route list
- Manual 2D/3D zoom while navigating
- Favorites are displayed on the map
- Country info when crossing borders
- Switch between audiobooks and music (iPod mode)
- Browsing traffic messages
- Intermediate destinations with phonebook entries
- Using phonebook contact groups
- Faster boot time
- Coordinate Input

thanks to Picazzo

+++++++++++++++++++++++++

Updated on 12-16-2009 ...

Now that I've had a chance to use ... some add'l features:

- GPS accuracy shown on Map page
- Audiobooks display in app
- Podcasts don't show in app, but can be started outside and played during navigation
- "POI on route" doesn't allow Google Local Search, but GLS can be used under "Add an Interm Destination"
- Turn-by-turn list is good, but doesn't allow any edits (block a segment)
- "Save Position" allows you to mark a spot; e.g. parking spot, etc

What am I missing?

Edited by - navxguy on 17 déc. 2009 07:30:59
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 15 déc. 2009 :  01:51:51  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Been using v1.4 quite a bit lately to go to places I wasn't familiar with and found the Google Local feature to be priceless, just type where you need to go and you'll get results in a second or less courtesy of the 3G+ connection. On the TomTom GO x50 with its slow GPRS connectin it can take up to 5 seconds to get 5 results and again 4 seconds if you need to ask for a second page.

A smaller thing, but you can now also cycle between ETA and TTD (Time to destination) by tapping on the info field (that exta field needs to be activated in the options).

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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 15 déc. 2009 :  04:54:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't know what the holdup is, but v 1.4 still hasn't shown up in the US store (neither the US nor the European version). I also wrote to Navigon to try to find out if the traffic subscription was a lifetime or one year subscription. They haven't answered yet. Does anybody here know the answer?

I thought it was for one year but someone in the AT&T forums says it is a lifetime subscription.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 15 déc. 2009 :  16:28:26  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
It's always been described by Navigon as being "lifetime" what makes you think it might be for one year only? Wonder what the problem is with v1.4 in the US too, maybe the Google Local search feature or new maps that aren't quite ready.

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navxguy

133 Posts

Posted - 16 déc. 2009 :  07:03:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
As far as I am aware, it's lifetime ... and looking forward to v1.4 in NA. We're at 2 and a half weeks and counting for approval process ... I'm wearing out the 'Check for Updates' button in iTunes!?!
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Enrique Muyshondt

USA
409 Posts

Posted - 16 déc. 2009 :  14:53:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
OK. I probably just made a wrong assumption since I used to pay yearly for my TomTom traffic subscription when I had a Windows Mobile phone. I couldn't find anything that said it was one way or another on the Navigon site so I wanted to clear up my own confusion. Good to know. I purchased US and European subscriptions and I'm happy that they are good for life and I won't have a recurring expense.
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navxguy

133 Posts

Posted - 17 déc. 2009 :  04:07:18  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Navigon v1.4 is out in USA ... downloading now. it's about time!
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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 17 déc. 2009 :  04:40:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just downloaded it and the Google connection is fantastic. Works like a charm. Even though the App Store still only shows 1.3, iTunes detected an update and downloaded 1.4.

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navxguy

133 Posts

Posted - 17 déc. 2009 :  07:39:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Google Local Search isn't giving me any results when I use "Current Location" default - even though I have GPS lock ... I have to put a word or description; and a specific location to get good result list. I wonder if the range of 'current location' search is small area?

Any suggestions?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 17 déc. 2009 :  14:22:41  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
You shouldn't have to worry about setting the location, that's the old (and clumsy) Navigon POI search method, just hit the "Google" button at the bottom of the page and type your text.

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paulkbiba

USA
5064 Posts

Posted - 17 déc. 2009 :  14:47:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Navigon has made a whole slew of changes in 1.4. Here is the press release describing them all:

quote:
Google Local Search

#149; Enhanced pedestrian mode

#149; Turn-by-Turn Route List Provides a detailed list of directions, which update automatically during navigation; eliminating each maneuvers in real-time.
#149; Audiobook Mode Drivers can now enjoy even more of their iPod while in-route music and audiobooks without missing MobileNavigator#146;s clear text-to-speech navigation announcements. In music mode the volume is automatically reduced during the voice announcement. Now while listening to audiobooks and navigation, playback is automatically paused and rewound for one second while directions are given, and resumes playing when the directions stop.

#149; Coordinate Input Employ longitude and latitude coordinates as a destination as an alternative to traditional input like an address or POI by name. Email geographical coordinates for precise location identification.

#149; Emergency Help Tapping one of the predefined categories such as Police, Hospital, Pharmacy or Gas Station provides detailed textual description of current position sorted by distance. Includes list with the street name, zip, city, distance to next big intersection, and geographic location. Emergency Help tells you exactly where you are, so you can tell other how to get to you.

#149; Favorites displayed in map Destinations marked as favorites by the user are now displayed on the map in a named flag icon.

#149; Swipe Screen integration for Traffic Messages Users can browse Traffic Live messages with the flick of a finger.

#149; Contacts as interim destinations One-tap sets contacts as an interim destination. Using contact groups in the phonebook as interim destinations is now also possible.

#149; GPS display enhancements If the iPhone GPS signal becomes too weak during navigation, indicated by a red bar on the top of the display; MobileNavigator now calculates the approximate position and shows the estimated position in the map (grey positioning indicator) to provide better orientation. Active route guidance remains switched off but continues normal navigation until a valid signal is available.

#149; 3D map zooming As they navigate, users can now zoom in on the map section both in the 2D and 3D display using the iPhone#146;s intuitive fingertip control.

#149; Country Info When the user crosses a country border, pointing out the country#146;s most important traffic regulations #150; such as the maximum permissible speeds or alcohol limits.

#149; Faster start-up

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navxguy

133 Posts

Posted - 18 déc. 2009 :  06:25:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow ... w/o doing anything, Google Local Search started working properly. I understand that Navigon recognized that some customer's searches weren't being handled properly on one of their (or Google's) servers ... got it fixed, works like a charm. Now we just need distance and direction arrows to show proximity (like our good 'ol Nuvi), and allow Google Search to be used w/ 'on route POI', and an 'avoid' button on turn-by-turn segments, etc ... it's coming along nicely.

And thanks Paul ... Nice list and descriptions

Edited by - navxguy on 18 déc. 2009 07:14:57
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navxguy

133 Posts

Posted - 20 déc. 2009 :  16:56:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I must post my experience ... the v1.4 GPS fix is much improved. It now mimics the Maps speed and precision ... in fact, the other day i was inside (interior room w/o windows), and I received a 'lock' ... now it was using 3G triangulation, but my prior location was miles away from my house, and w/in 20 seconds, the map screen went from 'red status GPS' to 'ready to navigate' pin pointing my location (or at least w/in 50m or so) ... amazing improvement from v1.3

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 02 janv. 2010 :  12:11:44  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
No more LIVE traffic or GOOGLE Local in Europe since yesterday, any similar problems with the USA version ?

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caryrae

USA
591 Posts

Posted - 02 janv. 2010 :  16:20:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I am still getting traffic info and am able do a google search for US version.
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 02 janv. 2010 :  17:33:49  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Good, a European problem only then, let's hope they fix it quickly ;-)

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navxguy

133 Posts

Posted - 02 janv. 2010 :  18:47:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
On the first day v1.4 rolled out in US, some people (incl. me) experienced server issues w/ Google Search (nearby feature wouldn't work) ... Navigon confirmed on Facebook/Twitter, and w/in 24hrs it was fixed. You might check there or communicate w/ them there ... good luck!
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 02 janv. 2010 :  19:03:57  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks, I have a direct channel of communication with them but so far, no news, probably some bug on their server in Europe, my guess is that it will be fixed on Monday.

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navxguy

133 Posts

Posted - 03 janv. 2010 :  04:57:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
... should have assumed
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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 06 janv. 2010 :  08:58:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
How is Google Local different than just searching in Google Maps?

I realize you won't get turn by turn directions dictated to you.

But does Google Local have a better database that Google Maps doesn't have?

Or if you wanted to find a gas station for example, GL has a POI database of gas stations near your location while in GM, you'd have to search for "gas station" or "Shell" or something like that?
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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 06 janv. 2010 :  23:38:18  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Well for a start it's much easier to you, type a place, find it, click GO. Beats switching from one app to the other, and cutting and pasting, that's really a no brainer.

As for the database, yes it's slightly different it seems, the location seems to be more accurate with Google Local.

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navxguy

133 Posts

Posted - 14 janv. 2010 :  17:20:30  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Here's a new "feature" for Navigon 1.4, combining the prior two posts ...

AroundMe just launched and updated app with Navigon integration. And what's nice about it is that it's basically Google Maps integration with Navigon. So you search for your POI in AroundMe which has a simple interface, it's displayed on Google Maps, and you pick your destination and it launches Navigon to give you text-to-speech direction. Best of both worlds.

AroundMe is now sitting right next to Navigon 1.4 on my homepage ... Maps may drift back a few screens

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/aroundme/id290051590?mt=8

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gpspassion

94154 Posts

Posted - 15 janv. 2010 :  00:07:14  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Indeed that's pretty neat, there will certainly be cases where it will complement the Google search of Navigon, especially if you're looking for a type of POI without knowing the name. You're not limited to your current position too, you can set it manually.

Did a brief test and made some screenshots of AroundMe :




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wco81

USA
227 Posts

Posted - 15 janv. 2010 :  02:19:06  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Those screens are from the Google app. offering to send routes to Navigon or Google Maps (Cartes)?

Or post something to Twitter or Facebook?
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