Google
  Web www.gpspassion.com
fiogf49gjkf0d


GpsPasSion LIVE!
www.flickr.com
This is a Flickr badge showing public photos from GpsPasSion Live !. Make your own badge here.

www.NaviBlog.com



Versions

Links/Liens




Portal/Portail
Rechercher

- -

Polls/Sondages
Sondage
Pour vous guider sur la Route :
GPS Mobile (SEM)
GPS Intégré
Smartphone
Autre
Voter  -  Résultat des votes
Votes : 2797




Club GpsPasSion
Soutenez le site!

USA: (US$)
EUROPE: (€)
Guide Paypal


GpsPasSion Forums
Home | Profile | Register/Enregist. | Active Topics | Search/Recherche | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 English Forums - Hardware
 Garmin nüvi forums
 [GUIDE] Working with programmed multi-point routes
 New Topic  Reply/Répondre
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 3

danham

USA
7492 Posts

Posted - 06 nov. 2008 :  23:52:16  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
GUIDE - Working with programmed multi-point routes


Introduction

Using pre-programmed routes with multiple stops is one of the more complex aspects of using a GPS and since this is something I had to figure out how to do on a nuvi 760 during the Scooter Cannonball 2008 across the United States, I thought I would share my experience in this guide. The original discussion is here and please excuse some repetition from that, and introductory info, as it makes it easier to understand the answers to the routing questions.

A Route with Checkpoints

The race followed a pre-determined route, with checkpoints, meaning that the scooter riders had to prove (via time-stamped photos or track logs) when they had arrived at each checkpoint on each day’s route, which mostly followed US 50 from San Francisco to Ocean City, MD. Everyone spent each night at the same location, so each day was its own race, counting toward the total. Sort of the Tour de France method, without the drugs [g].

I drove a support truck, so I was not required to follow the exact route, but in many cases chose to do so to provide a “sweep” function, looking for folks with breakdowns or other problems. I was using a nuvi 760, as was another of the support vehicles. The scooters were using mostly Zumos, but also an assortment of all kinds of GPSes, including nuvis, a StreetPilot, and Garmin’s Mobile X10.

Using the GMapToGPX plugin/java app

The official routes were created in Google maps and I used the excellent GMap to GPX web-based converter to get them into a format the 760 could read. They required a lot of editing. I used RoadTrip (now BaseCamp), the Mac equivalent of MapSource. This was very important, especially when it comes to answering gpspassion’s questions about recalculation, because proper placement of “shaping” points, vias and waypoints has a big influence on the outcome.

Editing the route

You want enough points to “force” the nuvi to conform to the pre-planned route, but you also want to be careful placing and naming them so you don’t get driven crazy by announcements of arriving at “GRTP-0071” or by that announcement overriding and masking an important turn. For example, if the next turn is at Main Street, placing a route point too close to that intersection would be bad. Better to insert the point (if one is needed to enforce the route) a mile or so back and label it “Main St. Next.”

File organization

The first big decision was how to organize the route files. The three choices were as follows. 1) One huge file from SF to MD: bad idea for a number of reasons that should be obvious. 2) One file for each day of the race: this is what most people did, but in my opinion it needlessly raised a lot of the recalc and arrival notice issues explained below. Its main advantages were eliminating the need to push buttons during the day (don’t forget, these guys were on scooters), and lack of confusion about which segment of which day was active. 3) One file for each segment, meaning that each file’s final destination was one of the checkpoints.


Day 6, segment 1, from Garden City to Greensburg, KS.

The plan was to follow the official route to each checkpoint (though I did opt not to in some cases). Above is an example of a segment from Day 6, which in its entirety went from Garden City KS to Fort Scott, KS, a distance of 364 miles. The first segment went from Garden City to a checkpoint in Greensburg, covering 94 miles. Note the two orange flag waypoints which show a dogleg in Dodge City to stay on Rt. 400. There were four segments in all on Day 6.

Here’s why I liked this approach: A smaller file imports faster and there was no problem putting the roughly 50 files needed (10 days times 4-5 checkpoints per day) into the 760 all at once from my computer. Then it was easy to delete the day’s segments each night and import the next day’s, all on the 760. I left my laptop at home. But I should have used better labeling. Calling them things like “Day 8 Segment Two” was dumb – after 3 days on the road I had no idea what day or segment it was and should have labeled them like this: “Cedar City to Bryce Canyon.”

Preventing recalc disasters

But the most important advantage was that it created a kind of firewall against bad recalculations. In other words, no matter what the 760 decided to do if I went off-route (or even if it merely thought I did), the “final” destination for each loaded route was the next checkpoint.

As a safety net I also created a Custom POI file of nothing but checkpoints. That way no matter how badly the nuvi got confused (or I did), I could cancel the route and navigate directly to the next checkpoint using the “fastest” route pref on my 760. A further safety net was a POI file of all the event motels, meaning I could also navigate directly to them.


The end of segment 1. Segment 2 (next route) starts where 1 ends.

OK, so how did this all work in the real world? Pretty well, but not flawlessly. It’s a little hard to tell how much to blame firmware 4.0 and how much is due to quirks of the 760 and its routing engine. It is possible to preview the “worst” of the recalculation problems using BaseCamp or MapSource (force them to recalc your route before transferring it to the GPS), but those programs use different preferences and avoidances than many Garmin models, so you may only be able to detect gross errors.

When you first import the route, it should be identical to what you mapped on your computer. In most cases it was, but one route file, for reasons I have not been able to discover, would load but not begin routing until/unless I changed a routing pref on the 760, forcing it to recalculate.

That’s the bad news. The good news is that for the most part, recalculations did not ruin the routes, sometimes inserting no changes, sometimes inserting small, insignificant ones. But several times it did cause problems with directions that varied too much from the assigned route.

Avoidances

The difficult part was guessing how to set prefs and avoidances to keep this process under control. “Shortest” seemed to produce the worst changes; “fastest” was OK, but bear in mind that we were far enough from major roads that routing to an interstate was often out of the question, so this wasn’t a proper test of prefs in that sense.

I ended up un-checking the U-turn avoidance because it made a big difference during recalcs. With it checked, the GPS would often try a wacky route (again we were in the boonies; avoiding U-turns was not a simple question of jogging right three times through a handy subdivision). Leaving it free to call for a U-turn alerted me that I had gone off-route as opposed to the 760 just losing its mind.

What happens if you go off-route?

Does it :
_a. recalculate the whole route and risk make you use different roads ?
_b. take you back to the next "waypoint" ?

It appears to sort of do “b.” It recalcs the whole route, but picks up where it left off and navigates to the next waypoint or trip point. If this results in a wacky, illogical route (rarely), you can delete the route and re-import it.

I don't know of any way to turn off recalc on the nuvi 760, or I would definitely have done it. The only times I had to "abandon" a route and then re-load it were 1) when the 760 wigged out (perhaps due to FW 4.0) and 2) when I had to backtrack to rescue a broken scooter.

Reloading the route works, but good planning with trip points, vias and shaping points (all ways of forcing the desired route in BaseCamp/MapSource) are also very effective when done in advance.

When you've reached a waypoint, any tolerance?

The 760 appears to treat every possible type of point in your pre-planned route the same way it deals with vias, so it announces arrival at all of them (see above for how this can be both good and bad). The computer software lets you set proximity alerts, but unless it’s a Custom POI in its own file, the 760 ignores this, unfortunately, so tolerance seems to be the same as for a via, meaning if you are way off it may try to make you backtrack to reach it.

Can you choose to jump to the next waypoint?

No, not unless you manually edit the route to eliminate the waypoint, which I did not try. But it will eventually give up and stop trying to send you back if you drive around one on purpose. Under 4.0 this function was too aggressive in the 760, compared to my 350 or 680, which will gracefully yield to my new route choices a lot more politely [g]. It behaves better under 4.2. This is partly why I created the Custom POI list of checkpoints as explained above.

I hope this is helpful and feel free to ask questions and continue the discussion in this forum topic.

-dan

- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA

Edited by - danham on 12 août 2013 17:44:22

Ads


SergZak

USA
1815 Posts

Posted - 07 nov. 2008 :  00:57:09  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Nice guide, Dan. Great job.

nüvi 3490LMT, nüvi 3790LMT, nüvi 765T, nüvi 855, nüvi 760, nüvi 750

Edited by - SergZak on 07 nov. 2008 00:57:47
Go to Top of Page

danham

USA
7492 Posts

Posted - 07 nov. 2008 :  01:00:10  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the kind words. I really enjoyed seeing parts of California I'd never experienced before, like Mt. Hamilton, Yosemite and Tioga Pass.

-dan

- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA

Edited by - danham on 07 nov. 2008 01:00:46
Go to Top of Page

gpspassion

94645 Posts

Posted - 07 nov. 2008 :  01:04:20  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
[OT MODE] - Quite a ride up Mt Hamilton from SJ, eh ? And don't get me started on Tioga Pass, probably my best "road memory" ever, when you start heading down towards Mono Lake, you could as well be on the moon, need to get back out there ![/OT MODE]

Great guide, yes, typically this type of use requires some training and regular use if not you're likely to forget the small details that matter pretty quickly ! Now we'll have a guide to go back to.

Discounts and Assistance/Réductions et Assistance (Club GpsPasSion) / Où commencer?
Go to Top of Page

danham

USA
7492 Posts

Posted - 07 nov. 2008 :  01:44:08  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
[OT] My son will also never forget Rt. 120/Tioga; he crashed his Vespa at 66.9 mph (according to his Zumo track log) when his drive belt failed and locked the rear wheel in a tight downhill curve. Luckily he came thru OK and finished the race on a borrowed scooter. His was destroyed. [/OT]

One detail I left out was moving points that were imported from Google and ended up in "bad" places in RoadTrip. For example, a waypoint which in Google was supposed to force the route to stay off I-5, instead ended up just touching the on-ramp on the CN NT v2009 map and after a recalc sent me many miles down I-5 then back to rejoin the route. The cure was to move the point away from the ramp so that it correctly tracked =under= the interstate and stayed on the local road.

In other words, small differences in maps can make big differences in routing.

-dan



- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA

Edited by - danham on 07 nov. 2008 01:51:57
Go to Top of Page

alokeprasad

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 12 déc. 2008 :  02:41:50  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
--- I started a new topic on this by mistake. My questions pertains to this topic. Therefore, I am re-posting them here --

I have been trying to understand how multi-point routing works on the Nuvi 765T and others. This guide helps a lot with tips on setting up a route and what to expect. But still, there are some questiosn that remain, especially with then newer models like the 765T, on proximity issues and the logic used by the Nuvi under different scenarios.

Firstly, I observed that if a Nuvi is switched off while navigating a route, the next time that it starts up and locates itself, it continues navigating that route. This is obviously not the case if one stops the route navigation (by pressing the stop sign icon) before switching off the Nuvi. On restart, in that case, the Nuvi simply waits for "Where to?" instructions.

Secondly, each location has a specific coordinates associated with it. The coordinates associated with an address may be off by many feet because of mapping errors, location errors of the Nuvi etc. One could arrive at the front door of the hotel, say, and still not pass over the exact coordinate associated with the address of that hotel.

Here is the route with waypoints and some usage scenarios (and questions that come to mind:

Start -> wp1 ->wp2 -> Finish

When driving through: How close do I have to get to the coordinates for wp1, as understood by the Nuvi, for it to consider that I have arrived at wp1 and therefore for it to start directing me to wp2? [This is for situations where I used wp1 as a way to shape the route. I have no intentions of stopping at wp1]

When stopping close to wp1 and powering off the Nuvi: How close to wp1 do I have to get to wp1 so that next time I start the Nuvi, and continue with the route, it starts directing me to wp2? [This is the scenario when I get to the hotel wp1, park nearby, and switch off the unit. Next day, I want it to continue on to wp2]

When stopping close to wp1 and stopping the route navigation and then powering off the Nuvi: How close do I have to be to wp1 so that on restart, it starts directing me to wp2? [This is when I stop at hotel wp1, stop the route navigation, go to local sights using the Nuvi, start it up, reselect the route, and decline to navigate to the beginning.]

When stopping between wp1 and wp2, stopping the route navigation and then powering off the Nuvi: On restart and re-selecting the route and declining to navigate to the beginning, which waypoint does the Nuvi direct me to? [I could need to stop somewhere while driving, need to use the Nuvi for something else, and then want to resume my trip.]

Clearly, the possibilities are endless, and the opportunities to get confused are equally endless when experimenting with this thing. Also, there are workarounds to every situation, like temporarily deleting wp1, navigating to wp2 directly instead of using routes etc.

But don't you feel the need to know exactly what the device is "thinking" as it helps you along the way? That way you know what to expect from it in common situations and not have to get distracted to "fix" it while driving.
Go to Top of Page

danham

USA
7492 Posts

Posted - 12 déc. 2008 :  03:03:47  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Welcome to the forum and thanks for bringing your interesting questions over to this existing topic.

I can't give you precise answers, but one thing which occurs to me is a general observation about nuvi "behavior" with routes: It is nowhere near as dependent on precise location - down to a matter of feet in your examples - as you are assuming.

Put another way, the same kind of algorithm which is at work when "rubber banding" to roads seems to apply to vias and shaping points. By that I mean it generally accepts "close enough" based on a number of factors, just as it does when the vehicle icon might actually be off the road as drawn on the imprecise map, but logic suggests that you are still on the pavement and so it corrects the "picture" you see on screen. This means it works pretty well in the real world, but also makes it difficult to answer any of your questions with a number such as "11.5 feet." [grin]

I just re-read this one: "When stopping close to wp1 and stopping the route navigation and then powering off the Nuvi:" and believe the answer is that it normally never attempts to go back to wp1 - at least that was my experience on my cross-country trip. And even if it did, it would shortly recalculate as you set out toward wp2.

-dan

- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA

Edited by - danham on 12 déc. 2008 03:09:04
Go to Top of Page

alokeprasad

USA
25 Posts

Posted - 12 déc. 2008 :  03:48:41  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the reply. This is why this forum is so great, with people contributing their experience. All the scenarios I have laid out are so common (hotels to stay, sights to see, your cannonball run :) ). I'm guessing that Garmin is using some intricate logic to determine the correct response most of the time, otherwise there would be a lot of upset customers trying to correct the Nuvi's incorrect choices.

Even in your answer of "stopping close to" and proceeding again, lots of us together can pin down whether close enough is 100 feet or the next block or whatever.

Life would be so much simpler if the Nuvi simply had a button called "Proceed to previous destination" and "Proceed to next destination" to to correct any of it's wrong decisions.


Edited by - alokeprasad on 12 déc. 2008 03:56:47
Go to Top of Page

apersson850

Sweden
1274 Posts

Posted - 12 déc. 2008 :  16:15:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A concept not unknown to Garmin, as several of their units can do this with off-road routes.

Anders
Go to Top of Page

danham

USA
7492 Posts

Posted - 12 déc. 2008 :  16:41:57  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks Anders. Good to see you here again.

Another bit of behavior that I =think= arrived with 4.2 is that my 760 uses a new approach to the following situation: My sister-in-law lives at the end of a long dirt driveway off a rural road in the Hudson Valley. My 350 and 680 would announce the left turn into the driveway and then remain silent until we were within say 150 feet of the house (where I had previously created a waypoint) and announce "Arriving at..." Now it announces the turn and says, "Navigate off-road to ..."

-dan

- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA

Edited by - danham on 12 déc. 2008 16:43:06
Go to Top of Page

airamerica

4 Posts

Posted - 26 juil. 2009 :  08:45:14  Show Profile  Visit airamerica's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Any chance to use pre-programmed routes on a Nuvi 250w?
Go to Top of Page

danham

USA
7492 Posts

Posted - 26 juil. 2009 :  15:17:27  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Nope, the 250W does not support pre-planned routes. See our FAQ for workarounds using Vias.

-dan

- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA
Go to Top of Page

wco81

USA
230 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2009 :  08:08:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So I'm going to Spain and I could program a lot of places to visit and save them as Favorites in my Nuvi 670.

I've used Garmin's browser plugin to send places found in Google Maps to the Nuvi as Favorites.

Then I found that on Viamichelin.com, there was a link to send directions to GPS. Well it saved a GPX file and when the Nuvi is mounted, I see a GPX directory as well as a current.gpx file.

Simple matter of copying the GPX file from Viamichelin over to the Nuvi? Of course it's not that simple, because you can't really access alternate GPX files. That is, there's nothing in the UI which lets you do this, even though the Garmin RoadTrip software lets you copy the GPX file to the internal memory or the SD card.

So are there models which let you access GPX files copied to the PND or the SD card? Or do you have to do the trick described in the guide to set enough way points that it follows the directions returned at sites like Viamichelin or Google Maps?

As it turns out, the ViaMichelin GPX files just have beginning and end point coordinates, so it doesn't reflect the directions displayed on their site. But maybe if PNDs supported the use of GPX files with routing/directions info., maybe these sites will create useful GPX files?

Incidentally, it would be great if GPS software for devices like the iPhone did a better job integrating with map sites and computers in general without having to use a half dozen different utilities. It's great that Garmin put out something like RoadTrip but not seeing a whole lot of utility for it.
Go to Top of Page

NanaimoRick

Canada
7889 Posts

Posted - 20 sept. 2009 :  19:39:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wco81


So are there models which let you access GPX files copied to the PND or the SD card? Or do you have to do the trick described in the guide to set enough way points that it follows the directions returned at sites like Viamichelin or Google Maps?


Your problem is that the 670 doesn't support 'routes'. None of the old 3xx and 6xx models do. If you used a Nuvi model that did support routes then you'd be able to transfer a route created in a number of programs directly to the Nuvi and once 'imported' to the device you could call it up and follow it as you travel. These routes and their waypoints can run from either the Nuvi's internal storage or an SD card but you have to use a supported device.

Examples of devices that do support 'routes' are the 7xx, 7x5, 8xx, basically all of them except the 3xx and 6xx and some other minor exceptions.

Rick James - Nuvi Forum Moderator
Nuvi 350 - Nuvi 760 - Nuvi 1695LM - Nuvi 3790LMT (with ecoRoutes HD) - Nuvi 2460LMT - Nuvi 3597LMTHD (with ecoRoutes HD) - DriveLuxe 50LMTHD also TomTom 540S for side by side comparison >> Here <<
2016 Chevrolet Equinox LTZ 6 CYL AWD

Go to Top of Page

hpatlik

1162 Posts

Posted - 22 sept. 2009 :  05:58:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
One "feature" that I just realized that the 7x0 series can do is the ability to create a multi-point route on the fly without using the "Route" function directly. I always thought that adding an additional via point (without creating a route under the "Route feature") would erase the current destination when on an active single destination route is used(as it does on a 3x0 because it can only handle one via point). The 7x0 will stack as many vias points as you want (using Where to?, confirm as via point), with the last via point entered being your current destination. If you wish, you can manipulate (i.e., optimize, etc.) the via points under "Routes" like any other route.

HPatlik
Go to Top of Page

danham

USA
7492 Posts

Posted - 22 sept. 2009 :  14:50:08  Show Profile  Visit danham's Homepage  Reply with Quote
@ wco81:

To add to Rick's advice, have a look at our FAQ and follow the link to discussion of how to "fake" routes in your 670 using a leapfrog method and vias.

-dan

- Nüvi forum moderator -
Nüvi 760 in a '14 VW GTI & zumo 660 on a BMW F800 ST
Guide to working with pre-programmed routes: >> details <<
Language Guide / US Topo / 350 & 680 / MacBook & Intel iMac with OS X & Win XP / BaseCamp / Cape Cod, MA
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 3 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Reply/Répondre
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
GpsPasSion Forums © 2002-2017_GpsPasSion/Manzanite Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0,54 seconds. Powered By: Snitz Forums 2000 Version 3.4.05