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 "All in One" Navigation Systems
 Copy protection on Navigon maps (ex-NavigonFresh)
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theoldman1

USA
10 Posts

Posted - 13 févr. 2008 :  22:17:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Note by gpspassion : we now have a new topic about NavigonFresh http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=108006 so this was one was renamed to reflect the way the topic developed.


Just read on Navigon site that fresh won't be here till April Quote:
NAVIGON Fresh will be available as part of the newest software release, Release 1.1, and be ready to use with the launch of NAVIGON USA’s online shop in April.

theoldman1

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NeitherFanboy

USA
208 Posts

Posted - 13 févr. 2008 :  22:38:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Then my bet is the map update won't be ready until April either!
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Kondyke

65 Posts

Posted - 19 févr. 2008 :  04:50:07  Show Profile  Visit Kondyke's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by NeitherFanboy

Then my bet is the map update won't be ready until April either!



Be prepared to pay between $80 & $100.USD for MAP upgrades per Navigon support techs. Just a bunch of BS to me. I don't mind paying if things are right to start with, However I don't need to rehash all the problems Navigon is experiencing with compressed maps and routing here again in this message.

Feel betrayed because your nothing more than a corporate Alpha tester so Navigon could flood the market just before Christmas.

This straight from Navigons Website, My suggestion is Call, Write and Complain right to the source.



http://navigonusa.com/support/questions/12/What+is+your+general+policy+with+respect+to+map+updates%3F


What is your general policy with respect to map updates?


NAVIGON will make next generation maps available for the U.S. and Canada in Spring 2008. Here’s how it works: maps and other exclusive content will be available for purchase on NAVIGON’s online shop in April. Once purchased, content will be easy to download with NAVIGON Fresh. NAVIGON Fresh is a free software application that automatically syncs your NAVIGON GPS Navigator with fresher versions of data.

Call Customer Support Toll-Free.
888-848-0701 Now that Navigon has let the cat out of the bag, it's time to complain! And voice dis-pleasure.

Hours of operation:
9 a.m. - 8 p.m., M-F, Central

Edited by - Kondyke on 19 févr. 2008 05:30:21
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aer

USA
372 Posts

Posted - 19 févr. 2008 :  12:43:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Navigon's support techs don't have any idea what any policy yet to be finalized will be.

I think we are will just see as a result of complaints, a new "faq" claiming the maps are not corrupted. Technically I am not sure they are. I think they have less road class data fields or some of those fields combined. That is why there is a limit to the efficacy of xml tweaks or anything on the mn6.5 end
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Kondyke

65 Posts

Posted - 19 févr. 2008 :  16:47:01  Show Profile  Visit Kondyke's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aer

Navigon's support techs don't have any idea what any policy yet to be finalized will be.

I think we are will just see as a result of complaints, a new "faq" claiming the maps are not corrupted. Technically I am not sure they are. I think they have less road class data fields or some of those fields combined. That is why there is a limit to the efficacy of xml tweaks or anything on the mn6.5 end



Like I said, Not going to re-hash the problems Navigon is having with their series of GPS's marketed in The UNITED STATES. My statement was they are going to charge for maps, when they know they have a problem with routing and proximity to intersections and POI's.

The techs admit the next release of maps will correct the problems. As a user or better yet a Alpha/Beta tester of Navigon products you deserve better.

Now since you don't understand my text version of their website I will now include a picture for you to look at. The May I suggest you make the call and complain.




Make sure you ask to escalate your tech support to the next level if you have called before.
Now that Navigon has let the cat out of the bag, it's time to complain! And voice dis-pleasure.
You can call your local BBB, and watch for any class action filed


Customer Support Toll-Free.
888-848-0701
Hours of operation:
9 a.m. - 8 p.m., M-F, Central
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NeitherFanboy

USA
208 Posts

Posted - 19 févr. 2008 :  19:30:29  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Oh, now you have done it. You just commented to aer "since you don't understand my text version of their website." Be prepared, nobody is allowed to disagree with aer about anything on these forums.
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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 19 févr. 2008 :  21:35:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I don't unsderstand "Now that Navigon has let the cat out of the bag,". What did they let out? I am sorry if I am confused but I would be happy to call as well if I understand this.
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MPBsr25

175 Posts

Posted - 20 févr. 2008 :  01:01:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wallstreet123456

I don't unsderstand "Now that Navigon has let the cat out of the bag,". What did they let out? I am sorry if I am confused but I would be happy to call as well if I understand this.



The fact that Navigon will be charging to correct the problem they created.

And from the looks of it, it won't be on DVD form but will need to be downloaded using Navigon Fresh and will "marry" the Navigon 2100.

Edited by - MPBsr25 on 20 févr. 2008 01:02:32
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NeitherFanboy

USA
208 Posts

Posted - 20 févr. 2008 :  02:03:11  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Yes, it looks like the map will need to be downloaded using Navigon Fresh, but whether it will "marry" to the individual GPS unit is the question. At least one user is adamantaer says "no," I suspect yes. But I don't think Navigon will say ... first, it's not in their best interest to advertise that you can copy maps between units now (because they don't want you to), and if they ARE planning on implementing copyright protection, since that's not a "positive" selling point, they are hardly going to advertise that.

My question to Navigon about whether Navigon Fresh would be required in order to download or "activate" a map came back like this:
quote:
Dear Navigon Customer,
Thank you for your inquiry.

NAVIGON Fresh is not yet available for the North American customers yet, it
will be available when the Map Updates come out
.

Please contact us at 888-848-0701 Monday through Friday 8am to 10pm EST if
you have any other questions or http://www.navigon.com/site/us/en under the
Support tab.

Sincerely,
Navigon Customer Support Team

Saying it will be "available" in no way answers the question "will it be required." We won't know for sure until we see it in person.

BUT, Navigon should absolutely issue a "fixed" map for free to current users, regardless of whether that fixed map includes new data or is the generation we already had. And if they do not, they should be sued - class action on behalf of all existing owners. (I'm gonna get yelled at for this suggestion too, right?)

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L0stS0ul

95 Posts

Posted - 20 févr. 2008 :  02:17:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Of course everything is speculative until the update is out and we know for sure. There still is not a hard line on if the update will be free or will be a charge. They don't say anything in the press releases on how they will fix the routing if they will at all. Navigon has a pretty bad PR problem here and I personally think it would be in their best interest to figure out quickly what it is they want to do to fix their existing customers and get that information out instead of going into this information void. I think just coming out with a "this is what we are going to do" instead of having various people posting various things from various "customer" reps is confusing the problem. I'm not entirely sure they are aware of the PR problem they (and the users) have created with the mixed messages and speculation from boards like this one. I'm going to wait until I hear what it is they plan on doing in a press release before I get angry.

Edited by - L0stS0ul on 20 févr. 2008 02:19:49
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Kondyke

65 Posts

Posted - 20 févr. 2008 :  03:40:00  Show Profile  Visit Kondyke's Homepage  Reply with Quote
quote:
NO NEED TO QUOTE A MESSAGE DIRECTLY ABOVE YOURS, SERVER SAYS THANKS ;-) GPSPASSION TEAM
L0stS0ul,
Did you even bother to follow the arrow on the webpage graphic I posted? It is straight from Navigon. I guess thats not very speculative, Huh? It says available for purchase.

If you sit on your hunches and wait for a press release, I would imagine then it it will be to late because then it will be cast in stone. I am not sure either that they know if they have a PR problem like you suggested, But if you and others don't let them know by calling and using these forums to express dis-pleasure they never will.

Koni
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L0stS0ul

95 Posts

Posted - 20 févr. 2008 :  05:43:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
wow, someone is quite defensive. I'm not going to battle anyone on this. I'll wait and see what transpires. I read what you have in your screenshot and that says nothing about what they will do to fix the problem at hand. Only that they WILL be charging for new data. Who's to say that they are not going to fix the old data. It's all speculation and you're helping to feed it. Who's to say that they are not going to be even offering up new data for free. That is a general statment listed on their site that is not addressing the issues. There have been numerous posts (of who knows how informed) that the updates will be free to fix the routing issues. As recently as today.

Who's to say I've not contacted them? Actually every bug I find in the software so far I've emailed them and informed them of them. I'm not saying not to tell them there is a problem. I'm not saying not to call them or that I'm not contacting them on a 2-3 times a week basis as I am. I'm just not going to fry them at the stake until I hear a solid message from them which has yet to come out. No one knows how accurate these "reports" from posters with 1 or 2 posts to their name is.

Edited by - L0stS0ul on 20 févr. 2008 05:47:43
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aer

USA
372 Posts

Posted - 20 févr. 2008 :  05:48:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by L0stS0ul

Of course everything is speculative until the update is out and we know for sure. There still is not a hard line on if the update will be free or will be a charge.


We agree. You hit the nail on the head. It is not possible anyway to "marry" the map update to Fresh. Almost everything the techs said about current release was wrong as well. The posted faq commits to nothing, it is just a disclaimer. Garmin also said the same thing and I have had no problem getting perfectly legitimate updates to Garmins I have gotten.

Please note it says you have to use Fresh to update maps. This text is a readout translation the European support and is not the case there.
I have used Fresh on a European 6.5.2. It is a tool for ease of use. Everything Fresh does can be duplicated without Fresh as anyone who has read the German forums (much more in depth) and tried various things can tell you.
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NeitherFanboy

USA
208 Posts

Posted - 20 févr. 2008 :  17:16:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
We agree. You hit the nail on the head. It is not possible anyway to "marry" the map update to Fresh. Almost everything the techs said about current release was wrong as well. The posted faq commits to nothing, it is just a disclaimer. Garmin also said the same thing and I have had no problem getting perfectly legitimate updates to Garmins I have gotten.

Please note that the comments about copyright protection, "marrying the maps to Navigon Fresh," are uninformed and incorrect. It may not happen in the new release of Navigon Fresh, but it is entirely possible to do. Both claims that it will include copyright protection, or claims that it will not, are speculation. Claims that it is impossible are foolishness.
quote:
This text is a readout translation the European support and is not the case there.

Irrelevant to the argument. Navigon Fresh for the U.S. has not been released yet, and there is no guarantee that when it is, it will be an exact duplicate of Navigon Fresh in Europe. There is no way to know whether it will have the exact same functionality as the European version until it is released, regardless of claims to the contrary.
quote:
I have used Fresh on a European 6.5.2. It is a tool for ease of use. Everything Fresh does can be duplicated without Fresh as anyone who has read the German forums (much more in depth) and tried various things can tell you.

Same argument. What the European version of Navigon Fresh does is irrelevant. There is no way to know what the U.S. version will do until it arrives. It may provide copyright protection for the maps, it may not. However, saying that the U.S. release will not have copyright protection because you have tried the European version, and "various things," is comparing apples to oranges. Claiming that the U.S. version of Navigon Fresh cannot be any different, when released, than the current European version is an illogical assumption.

Putting aside the argument about copyright protection, LostSoul is correct. Navigon states that it will charge for map updates, but that statement is not definitive. If they release a "fix" for the current map to correct the routing problem, does it count as a "map update?" Or does "map update" only apply to a new version of the maps with more current data? We won't know until they release it. Glad everyone is reporting bugs on a continual basis, the more complaints they hear, the more chance we have that they will fix the routing errors.

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