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 "All in One" Navigation Systems
 Update v1.1/v6.5.2 for Navigon 2100/5100/7100
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bm_ninada

USA
131 Posts

Posted - 26 janv. 2008 :  04:28:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
UPDATED 20080204 BY GPSPASSION : Navigon have just made available an Update Release 1.1 (v6.5.2 ?) for the 2100, 5100 and 7100 AIOs. It has a size of about 25MB. More details starting on page 4 of this topic.

How to download : the update is available through the MyNAVIGON section of the NAVIGON US website. Select the My Products section and click on the link to download the update for your registered product. When prompted, save the downloaded file to your computer’s desktop. (post by theoldman1)

What's new : " Here's what they say has been updated:

1. Easier POI searches
- Easier Revamped POI Proximity Searches -- greatly improved ability to do a nearby search for pois near an address or poi
- Larger search radius for nearby searches for poi

2. Improved voice guidance
- Updated turn prompts expresses the distance to maneuver in "500 feet" instead of "0.1 miles"
- Updated U-Turn Logic means fewer U-Turn prompts

3. Text-to-Speach (TTS) enhancements
- Guidence given for all streets -- each and every street name is articulated, not just the streets that are of a 500 feet or greater distance
- enhanced articulation of non-standard street names (e.g. expressway)

4. User interface improvements
- revised text strings for some menus
- Better stability when saving user settings
- Direct access POI's updated when restoring Factory settings

5. Improved bluetooth stability on the 7100

6. Better handling of time zones in canada.



Original Post by bm_ninada : Below is the response received from Navigon. So far, if you folks review my various posts, etc. I have NEVER, EVER really gone ahead and criticized the company. However, I am now REALLY FRUSTRATED. Even if, there are NO issues with Navigon product (some have commented the product is fine) nevertheless I believe now, Navigon is taking us for a ride here. Come March - they will push it to June, etc. etc.
I went out of the way today to reach someone at Navigon today through various personal channels, etc. Finally, I did reach someone, who's located at Germany and from the conversation I had with him, it's obvious they are (a) Only tweaking the maps' values, etc. (like we have already got here - through Justin's tweaks) (b) There's no real "meat" in anything the firmwire really does rectify. His statement being - Navigon always released firmwire updates which are mostly geared towards some critical bugs, etc. the Navigon team received from customers, self determined - mostly causing the s.w to crash/freeze. That's the critical portion of the firmwire for US. As for the routing stuff, it is beyond budget for Navigon to re-invest on s/w design and programming - for it's routing logic. It works, proven to work and has been doing so, for so many years. For US, there's only slight changes to preference values, etc. and frankly they have (it seems) tested it out throughly and found in reality consumers' complaints to be instead more biased than truth. Biased in the sense - the consumers so long have been accustomed to web-based mapping software and are assuming it's the de facto standard. However, the unique logic of routing in Navigon goes beyond that and he seemed to challenge me to accept the fact that the unique route is in fact better than what the web programs provided.
So, for all - no need to keep fingers crossed. From my side, I am about to start a thread in BBB - against Navigon and it's deceptive statements and acknowledgments. Some may say - it's just a delay, I say - there's a price for that delay. If we don't price it, countless other consumer will suffer as a consequence to their deceptive marketing policies. As a proof in the pudding, there's ANOTHER mail I sent to Navigon (in Dec. 07) where they clearly PROMISED me, NO COST for map update too!!

"Dear Navigon Customer,
Thank you for your inquiry.

Unfortunately, at the moment updates are not available in North
America.
Updates should be made available by the end of March when our
accessories site launches.

Please contact us at 888-848-0701 Monday through Friday 8am to 10pm EST if you have any other questions or http://www.navigon.com/site/us/en under the Support tab.


Sincerely,
Navigon Customer Support Team
------------------------------------------------
Navigon as a whole is an exceptional product in terms of features and
looks. However, repeatedly I found the unit giving me routes which are
definitely not correct, both within city limits and interstate. Also,
many times sections of the roads do not seem to be in the map, evident
because:
* Turn-by-turn list, shows the turn (arrow) but no road/ramp/exit names - just a blank row
* Many times unit asks driver to LEAVE the road and then rejoin about a mile/couple of miles later.

There aren't any issues with road construction or GPS signal reception, etc.

I was told there's a firm-wire update to be made available in Jan.
2008. It's almost nearing end of Jan. 2008 - what is the ETA for the
firmwire update please?

** wise men learn from intelligentsia's mistakes **

Edited by - bm_ninada on 26 janv. 2008 04:50:59

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poppo

USA
42 Posts

Posted - 26 janv. 2008 :  23:21:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bm_ninada

It works, proven to work and has been doing so, for so many years.



Obviously, they have never used it here.

quote:
Originally posted by bm_ninada


...and found in reality consumers' complaints to be instead more biased than truth.



More biased than truth? LOL. 13 mile detours in order to not make a left turn is not 'biased'.

quote:
Originally posted by bm_ninada


....the consumers so long have been accustomed to web-based mapping software and are assuming it's the de facto standard. However, the unique logic of routing in Navigon goes beyond that



It's not just web based routing. Both my several year old Garmin 2610 and my new Garmin Nuvi 350 have none of the routing problems the my Navigon had. So yeah, their 'unique routing' goes beyond that - 13 miles in my case.

BTW, I finally got responses to my e-mails that I sent about 3 weeks ago. But all they did was tell me to call to resolve my problem (which of course I had already done several times). I just replied to them that there was no need since I have already returned my unit.
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spotter

43 Posts

Posted - 27 janv. 2008 :  05:53:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
the thing is, it most cases their routing does work, in some cases it makes stupid moves (getting off and on a highway to continue in the same direction you were originally going) and for those they don't have to change their routing logic, just figure out why that's occurring and put checks in the logic to prevent that from occuring (for instance, have a check that says if within a small distance you got off and on the same street and there was nothing preventing you from continuing on that same street, don't get off and on). In poppo's case, something worse is going on, and that might be due to how they classify roads internally.

In truth, just like navteq has a "user submission" form for errors in their mapping, every gps vendor should have it for errors in their routing. Where you can submit problem routes and they could then keep a DB of them. They might not be able to solve all of them (corner cases are the bane of programmers everywhere and what generally works in almost every other place, might not work in a specific area), but at least they would know what the problems were.
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guzya

24 Posts

Posted - 28 janv. 2008 :  09:01:15  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
[NOTE BY GPSPASSION - PLEASE READ EMAIL SENT VIA THE FORUMS - DELETE NOTE AFTER READING]
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aer

USA
372 Posts

Posted - 28 janv. 2008 :  13:09:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
While the software update will help with some of the bugs the core routing problem probably lies in errors Navigon introduced into the Navteq maps we have.
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wallstreet123456

388 Posts

Posted - 28 janv. 2008 :  15:48:26  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
having people exit a highway only to get back on at the next entrance sounds like a routing issue to me and not something that should be happening. I think Navigon now has a section to report bugs on their website.

@bm_ninada - Do you have a link to the BBB section that you posted in, I could not find anything for Navigon

Edited by - wallstreet123456 on 28 janv. 2008 15:50:01
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egadgetguy

USA
63 Posts

Posted - 29 janv. 2008 :  01:22:36  Show Profile  Visit egadgetguy's Homepage  Reply with Quote
PHAAAW! biased my sainted grandmother's sweet patootie!!!

How about the one it gave me. while northbound: Get off at next exit, make a u-turn back onto the highway southbound, drive 5 miles [two exits], get off, make a u turn, get back on highway northbound, Pass THE SAME F@#$#ING place you were just at 15 minutes ago!!!

THAT'S NOT A MAJOR BUG?!?!?!

I voted with my pocketbook and took it back for a full refund. I told the customer service person [and showed them] the major flaw I felt was on ALL the Navigons and suggested they PULL THEM from the shelf.

I think the BBB should force a recall on their collective arses!

GPS history: Garmin eMap + eMap [both broke] >> Magellan MAP410 > Garmin GPS'V' +
JensenNVX200 > Garmin Nuvi200 > Navigon 2100 > MIO C230 > Navigon7100!
Current GPSs: Garmin GPS'V' and Navigon7100!
Jensen & Mio use TA maps which suck in AL. Navigon is only good AIO with NavTeq

Edited by - egadgetguy on 29 janv. 2008 01:23:51
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bm_ninada

USA
131 Posts

Posted - 29 janv. 2008 :  02:43:48  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
For BBB forum, you need to go to Chicago BBB chapter and then search for Navigon. I submitted a case for them to review. The message I received, after submitting the case # is that I should not be sharing the number itself. Let me verify that part of the information again. Also, I never found a way @ BBB to search by the case number.

** wise men learn from intelligentsia's mistakes **
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gpspassion

93890 Posts

Posted - 29 janv. 2008 :  03:02:45  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
While it is your right to file a claim, I'm not sure what it is about? Is it because of the so-called bugs? No GPS can provide perfect routing so that won't fly, is it because of the postponed firmware update? There was certainly no such guarantee made to you of an update when you bought the GPS so that won't fly either. I haven't seen any commitment to make an update available? You might be disappointed in that, but it's a free country, so the best answer is to buy a GPS from another brand the next time, chances are you'll also see problems with the unit.

While I know this is not a popular argument, but how much margin go you think they have on $99 2100 with free traffic to support the development of software and map updates? My guess is someting close to zero, while you may dismiss this as being their problem not yours, at the end of the day you get what you pay for, at least in terms of after sales support, including CS, updates, buying spare parts.

Discounts and Assistance/Réductions et Assistance (Club GpsPasSion) / Où commencer?
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poppo

USA
42 Posts

Posted - 29 janv. 2008 :  06:06:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion

No GPS can provide perfect routing......

..... so the best answer is to buy a GPS from another brand the next time, chances are you'll also see problems with the unit.




Well, I will say that even my several year old Garmin 2610 is probably 99.99% accurate and the only 'errors' are from using outdated maps. And my new Nuvi 350 is spot on so far.

And I will disagree that other brands have the same sort of problems. Yes, some have more features and some have less, but none that I've heard of or used have the extremely inaccurate routing the Navigon has.

I agree that it appears that you get what you pay for. But they should have been selling these in the toy department and not as a 'serious' GPS. Right from their home page:

quote:
NAVIGON® GPS devices deliver unparalleled, premium navigation by combining innovative technology and exclusive features with a stunning design.



Edited by - poppo on 29 janv. 2008 06:09:04
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gpspassion

93890 Posts

Posted - 29 janv. 2008 :  13:40:18  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Marketing anyone ? ;-)

As for routing issues in the US, I pointed some of them out last summer while doing some US testing with actual side by side comparisons (7100, 680, 720T) like http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=92153 or http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=88698 (point 2). While the Navigon unit does have some problems, TomTom had equally bad ones and Garmin's ETA was often very optimistic, which some will consider a lesser problem. I don't think most of the people who complain here have had the chance/time to do these side by side comparisons and base a lot of their remarks on what they've read after finding the inevitable problem with routing that all GPS systems will have one day or the other. And again, read the nuvi forums for people complaining about being "ripped off" by Garmin ;-)

Don't get me wrong, my point about "you get what you pay for" was only aimed at after-sales support, in terms of features out of the box the unit should certainly work as advertised and I think that at the end of the day it does the job. I for one would not have a problem relying on the 2100 to guide me around the US, I know it will get me where I need to go.

Discounts and Assistance/Réductions et Assistance (Club GpsPasSion) / Où commencer?
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NeitherFanboy

USA
208 Posts

Posted - 29 janv. 2008 :  17:03:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm so tired of seeing the argument that "all GPS units have routing issues." There is an absolute difference between my GPS taking me on a street I would not have chosen myself and my GPS telling me to get off the freeway, make a u-turn, drive back, make another u-turn, and then continue exactly as I as going. I don't see anyone in the Garmin or TomTom forums claiming that! Or having me exit the left side of the SF Bay Bridge on Treasure Island, making me drive underneath the bridge and get back on the bridge on the right side going in the same direction I was already going before I got off. No suggestions of that in the TomTom or Garmin forums? Or mapping a route which takes you through all 4 sections of a freeway cloverleaf. No suggestions of that in either the TomTom or Garmin forums.
quote:
I don't think most of the people who complain here have had the chance/time to do these side by side comparisons and base a lot of their remarks on what they've read after finding the inevitable problem with routing that all GPS systems will have one day or the other.

I think you are wrong. I know that I got tired of the mystery routing in Navigon and purchased a TomTom One 3rd Edition -- TomTom's LEAST expensive model and only $50 more than I paid for the Navigon 2100 -- and I have been using them in side-by-side comparison's for about a month now. When I connected the TomTom to TomTom Home, it told me there was a newer map than what was included on the unit, and upgraded to it (free since it was within 30 days of purchasing it). The TomTom's routing has been very accurate, the only time it has ever suggested anything other than what I would have chosen myself there have been easily identifiable and logical reasons for the choice. Not so with the Navigon.

As for you get what you pay for, again, if Navigon could not afford to put out a $99 GPS with routing that worked, they should not have offered one.
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gpspassion

93890 Posts

Posted - 29 janv. 2008 :  17:32:31  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Hum...what's with the tone? Can you bring it down a notch? I've been running these forums for 5+ years so I obviously have a fair idea of what's going on and what the potential issues are, ok ?

Having said that, did you even take half a second to click on the links I put in my previous message? No, well then do it. I have not seen any generalized complaints of the horror stories you describe with your 2100, odd routes yes, a frantic behaviour like what you describe, no, and the 7100 I had this summer in the Bay Area certainly never exhibited any of these problems and they have basically the same software. Same goes for the 2100 I have tested in Europe since. Before jumping to conclusions and shooting off your mouth, you should probably ask yourself if there isn't something wrong with the GPS reception on your 2100. What you describe could well be a case of problematic GPS reception with the unit not linking to the proper segment and thus recalculating in error. What car do you have, any chance it has a coated winshield?

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flyingn

USA
33 Posts

Posted - 29 janv. 2008 :  18:11:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I dunno. My 5100 is dead accurate. dead reliable and Im very happy. Can't ask for more then that..
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aer

USA
372 Posts

Posted - 29 janv. 2008 :  19:07:00  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Don't know about what flyign? The 5100 is not dead accurate on routing compared to any of the competitors. Navigon officials on websites have admitted the routing problems and promised a fix. Navigon support has promised the bug fix as well in both oral and email notes.
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gpspassion

93890 Posts

Posted - 29 janv. 2008 :  19:10:07  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Yes, but what "routing problems" are we talking about here, the "odd routing" seen on the 7100 since day 1 and highlighted in the comparisons I did last summer or the frantic behaviour described above? I think you have both a 7100 and a 2100 so what are you seeing, different problems, similar problems?

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