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 [TOPIC] TomTom's HD Traffic Service - 2011 Update
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Kex

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 02 juin 2010 :  02:23:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The last weekly update of my XL 340S Live this weekend made some major changes to the unit. Of interest for this topic is that when a route is calculated initially, a route summary map now shows a "box", on the right side of the screen, that includes information regarding what is clearly described as "HD Traffic" (yes, that's a quotation).

Don't ask me what this means, exactly! But the world map on TomTom's Route Planner website (when you zoom out to country level, or less) still does not show any "HD" logo on any U.S. city location.

TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired)
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gpspassion

94633 Posts

Posted - 02 juin 2010 :  02:36:55  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Ah good ! Let us know if you see improvements in the traffic data on your routes.

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gpspassion

94633 Posts

Posted - 14 juin 2010 :  09:58:49  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Posted by offthegrid in another topic :

Just in time for the World Cup, TomTom rolls Out Quasi HD Traffic in South Africa, no cell phone info just straight gps probes. They are using 570,000 gps probe data signals from a 'lojack' type service which seems like a fairly good number for a country that size. Plus they'll have their own as they add them.

This would be the equivalent of about 4 million probes in the US - Inrix has 2 million. 1 year included and $65 a year afterwards which seems to mirror the 1000 roll out info.

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Kex

USA
190 Posts

Posted - 14 juin 2010 :  16:54:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
^^^^ And South Africa now appears on the TomTom Routes World map with a HD icon, not just the regular traffic icon!

http://www.routes.tomtom.com/#/map/?zoom=0&map=basic

TomTom XL 340S LIVE, GO LIVE 2535M, XL 340TM (RDS-TMC) in LA traffic
Garmin StreetPilot 2720 (worthy, but retired)
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offthegrid

USA
400 Posts

Posted - 15 juin 2010 :  06:43:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
South Africa is a quasi HD Traffic they have what appears to be a lot of probes (570,000) through a lojack type service and thats what they are using there. That type of service is often installed on laptops, tractors, heavy farm equipment (anything thats valuable and that can be stolen) etc in addition to cars so its tough to say how many probes they have there but no cell phone triangulation in use here unlike Europe.

This or something like it is probable in the US.
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offthegrid

USA
400 Posts

Posted - 01 nov. 2010 :  04:07:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I just read an analysts report that says TomTom expects 90% of its users in Europe to be connected users, 25 million of them by 2014 all reporting back location info.

They apparently have a new flat fee arrangement with Vodafone now as opposed to revenue sharing that enables this.

It also talked about the roadblocks that TomTom has run into in the US such as 'intransigent' carriers and apparently no cooperation from companies such as Intellione and Airsage that have existing agreements in place.

It seems unless TomTom buys one of these companies that any type of HD Traffic here is not going to happen.
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offthegrid

USA
400 Posts

Posted - 07 nov. 2010 :  19:08:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
From the same report. Its hard to believe that the US will get HD Traffic but I suppose anything is possible. Personally I believe that they will be bought out by someone within a year.



------------------------------------------------------------------
TomTom is a little unclear on which countries will get HD Traffic or Live Services and when. The company actually has a total of 30 countries set for Live Services launch within the next 12 months, 17 of which are expected to get HD Traffic.
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offthegrid

USA
400 Posts

Posted - 06 janv. 2011 :  03:14:31  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
TomTom is using the term 'HD Traffic' for a service to be rolled out in the US this summer but is in fact nothing like it.

No cell phone network triangulation is involved unlike Europe where 90 million Vodafone users are tracked for traffic data.

http://www.gpsbusinessnews.com/TomTom-Releases-HD-Traffic-New-Connected-PND-in-the-US_a2694.html

"According to TomTom’s senior vice president of market development Tom Murray, in the United States TomTom relies on historical traffic data (IQ Route), “several hundred of thousand traffic probes” and incident data. TomTom claims to provide traffic coverage for 6 million miles against half a million miles for TMC-based traffic information systems."

This is pure marketing versus a real product. Google has probably 10 million gps probes plus the 130 million triangulated cell phones from AirSage and Inrix probably has 4 million gps probes but TomTom is going to revolutionize traffic here with a few hundred thousand gps probes? Probably not.
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gpspassion

94633 Posts

Posted - 06 janv. 2011 :  03:22:34  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
I'll be talking with TomTom tomorrow at CES so I'll try to get more info, but it does look more like "cosmetics" at this point...they should bite the bullet and work with established "HD Traffic" players to provide the best possible service to their customers.

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offthegrid

USA
400 Posts

Posted - 06 janv. 2011 :  03:50:39  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm not even sure there are 6 million miles of roadways in the US. TomTom appears to be taking creative license here also by using 'lane miles' so each section of road is multiplied by the number of lanes.

continued : http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy234/ConnectedTraveler/cats.jpg - this shows the TrafficCast coverage in red now and with the blue and grey as part of the Dynaflow 3.0 which may be what TomTom is talking about though I understand from another source that the new data is proprietary meaning no one else has that exactly. Could be this plus a blend of IQRoutes and TomTom's own data from their iPhone app, Work and connected gps systems.

It'll be interesting to see what you can gleam from TT tomorrow.
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gpspassion

94633 Posts

Posted - 11 janv. 2011 :  22:26:17  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote

So I had a long conversation at CES with Jeff Kim who is in charge of HD Traffic in the USA, here's what came out of it :

1. The 6 million mile coverage is the potential coverage that they can achieve thanks to the use of OpenLR that allows for dynamic placement of traffic incidents on the map without being limited by the hard-coded TMC codes in the maps. I see they have a page about OpenLR http://www.tomtom.com/page/openLR - not sure when it was announced :



OpenLR sounds useful to increase the granularity of traffic information as you often see incidents being reported on longer sections than needed, typically from one exit to the next on a freeway. However you still need to find good data into the system...

2. I had a hard time getting hard info on what sources they are using...no GSM tracks as they have in Europe due to the lack of an agreement with a carrier, so that's confirmed. They reckon their forte lies in the connected devices they have on the road and that report their GPS position anonymously. That includes the connected PNDs and TomTom for iPhone. Couldn't get any numbers but they feel it provides good data...I also got them to say they worked with traffic providers to get incident data, but no names given. Last but not least "Advanced IQ Routes" that increases the granularity of historical traffic information by having all the data present on their servers in one minute increments, versus 5 minutes as hardcoded in the maps of the GPS systems. Also there is more computing power on the servers to optimize routes using the historical data.

3. Number or probes versus the competition : I asked how they felt they could compete with traffic providers who claim millions of probes...the answer was that you have to sort through the "probes". One point he brought up is that some providers use probes that report data every 15 minutes, TomTom's are every 2 minutes.

4. The HD Traffic USA headquarters are in...Amsterdam (see picture on the first page) at this point.

Final words : I would have liked to get more hard data, especially on their outside sources, but that's all they seem to be willing to talk about, and it was interesting to find out about OpenLR and "Advanced IQ Routes". Feel free to use it for the "Traffic in the USA" summary post you said you were working on ;-)

As usual, the proof is in the pudding and after some quick comparisons between the traffic data shown on http://routes.tomtom.com/ vs http://maps.google.com/ in the SF Bay Area they are showing data not available on Google and also highlighting the problems as opposed to just slow traffic.

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offthegrid

USA
400 Posts

Posted - 12 janv. 2011 :  03:10:01  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Awesome Info!

The 'Advanced IQ Routes' description makes it sound as though some of the actual routing will take place at the server rather than on the unit.

Potential problems there if the 2505 Live here is still a GPRS connection. My 740 (RIP) was slow as molasses - it went like this - request for traffic - then the spinning dohickey for at least a minute saying 'connecting to server' then it would change to 'downloading info' for another minute and thats when it could get through. It got worse as time went on. TomTom cannot afford to have that especially if the routing is being taken off board to some extent.

I like the speed though that you mentioned and thats how Inrix is providing routing to Ford and Toyota so it must work.

They came out with that Open LR a couple of years ago - this is the first time I've heard them talk about using it. Not being tied to TMC is important since they can show traffic anywhere. This is encouraging since it means they are not talking about 6 million TMC miles.

I have to agree with TT about probe reporting. A lot of Inrix's original probes and TrafficCast and Navteq were truck fleets that do not report in real time, are running at night, are loading or unloading freight etc etc.

They have a plan so we'll see. I really liked the Dash method where I was a probe and could actually see my data change the traffic map (some of the time I would be going 65mph through a 'severe traffic backup' so it didn't always work).

I am working on a USA traffic update and will incorporate this. You have opened up the door and let some light in on this. No one else has this info - Kudos!
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gpspassion

94633 Posts

Posted - 13 janv. 2011 :  03:46:12  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Thanks and glad you found that helpful, yes you can't beat talking to the people directly involved to get a better sense of how something has been put together.

Good point about some routing taking place on the servers to take advantage of the increased granularity of "Advanced IQ Routes", I'm not sure how they could do that but there are certainly ways to make it work. Besides some routing info has to be sent to their servers too so that they can populate the traffic incidents on the expected route.

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offthegrid

USA
400 Posts

Posted - 18 janv. 2011 :  13:48:05  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've come to the conclusion that TomTom will offer a year a free traffic/Live services with the 2505 to match Garmin and using just their own probes versus working with TrafficCast has to be costing TomTom much less.

I believe thats the only reason that they are culling TrafficCast.

If I'm wrong we'll find out that they are getting some raw probe data from someone else.
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gpspassion

94633 Posts

Posted - 18 janv. 2011 :  18:38:00  Show Profile  Visit gpspassion's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Based on my discussion with them it didn't sound like they were using any other probes than theirs, which makes sense since they want the instant reporting to build their traffic information.

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