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| psycogeek |
Posted - 21 juil. 2009 : 21:47:25
uhh? HI, I just ended up with one of these, and i was hoping that other persons heavily interested in the GPS aspects of it, would be here (gps passion).
do you have one? please check in, and TELL ME HOW TO RUN THE DANG THING 
i am having a terrible terrible time getting the GPS to work all by itself without the A-GPS and all.
i am beginning to think the reason it doesnt come up in the Search here, is because the gps chip in it sucks, cause so far it does.
it is probably a Smurf-star chip 
if i posted in the wrong place, please point me (as long as its not in french)
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| 14 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| patruns |
Posted - 03 févr. 2010 : 20:58:02
Bumping up................
Now with free navigation wandering what people's experiences are............. |
| gpspassion |
Posted - 25 nov. 2009 : 12:45:27
Makes sense, shouldn't be too hard of a bug to fix, "out of date ephemeris" + "no network connection" -> "try to acquire new ones" ! Even if it has a small antenna given a good view of the sky and some time it should be able to decode the live ephemeris data broadcast by the satellites, something that normally requires a -143dBm signal level. |
| dim33 |
Posted - 25 nov. 2009 : 10:07:17
Unfortunately after further testing my earlier post does not yield relieble lock results.
However, on a cold start this morning after 8 minutes no lock and only two very weak signals detected.
After shutting down the GPS (Garmin in my case - although that makes no difference) I then went into offline mode without removing the SIM or rebooting). Within 1 minute it could see 6 satellites and was locked after another minute on 5. After that I could go back to online mode without any further GPS problems. This is the second time in a row this process has worked (I believe it also works for other Nokia GPS mobiles experiencing the same problem, but I cannot test this first hand).
I would put money on the fact that this is to do with the ephemeris data. On a cold start any ephemeris data held by the unit is out of date (ephemeris data is only good for 4 hours). When you activate any GPS unit it first looks at its ephemeris file to see what satellites it should be able to see (based on the last time it was active). This is why a warm/hot start is so much quicker. I reckon that when using Integrated GPS without assistance the Nokia native application is trying to use out of date ephemeris information instead of just building its own new ephemeris data by reading the satellite signals it can detect. Therefore it has almost no chance of getting a lock (unless by coincidence some of the same satellites happen to be in orbit that were in view last time the unit was used). In this case it will manage a weak slow lock, which is exactly what has been happening with my unit.
I say I would put money on this being a likely explanation because in Garmin XT if you look in GPS info you get a circle that shows where each of the satellites it can see are located. When I activated the GPS this morning this circle contained a full compliment of satellites, which indicates to me that it is looking at ephemeris data. After I went into offline mode and reactivated the GPS, this circle was completely blank and it started to populate it as it found satellites.
So going back to the action that leads to this problem (be it installing a newer version of OVI maps or using AGPS at some point in the past), something is stopping the GPS from properly cold starting (i.e. determining which satellites are visible from scratch and getting a fix). It seems that going into offline mode allows the unit to properly cold start.
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| gpspassion |
Posted - 20 nov. 2009 : 23:52:26
Nice research! I don't have a 5800 to look into it but it seems you've figured ou the problem. One thing though you hadn't activated the "plane" mode for your testing, that has adverse effects on all the "radio" features generally. |
| dim33 |
Posted - 18 nov. 2009 : 21:42:06
I've been experinementing with the issue of getting a lock without AGPS for days now. I have a data plan so for the last 2 months that I have owned the 5800 I have been getting a lock extremely quickly.
Since I will be going to France in a month and therefore will turn off data, I was curious to see how long it would take to get a lock without GPS. I was astonished to see that it could not get a satellite lock at all. Since then I've been reading everything I can, but whilst there are a lot of users complaining about the problem I have not managed to find any solution.
I am running v31.0.101 firmware. I recently flashed it back to v21.0.25 (with a Cyclone box), but unfortunately I was not aware of the problem then so did not test the lock before I flashed back to v31. However reading around the lock problem seems to affect pretty much all firmwares.
I also bought a bluetooth GPS receiver and the 5800 works perfectly with it.
To understand why the lock problem exists using only the integrated GPS (without AGPS) I have fully looked through the Private folder on the C drive and have tried removing files like LastKnownPos.dat just in case it was holding up the lock, but to no avail.
The internal receiver is clearly alright as it works perfectly when AGPS is enabled.
Today however, I managed to get a lock without AGPS. Using Garmin XT I looked at the satellite lock bars. As usual without AGPS it would only see one satellite no matter how long I waited. I then disabled the Integrated GPS receiver from within Garmin. I then enabled it again and this time (without me moving an inch) the 5800 could see three satellites. I disabled the Integrated GPS again, waited a few seconds and then reactivated it. This time the it could see 5 satellites and then achieved an accurate lock. Finally after another minute it could see 7 satellites and was locked to 6. I did this successfully twice today.
My feeling is that this has to be a software glitch. By software I mean the 5800 firmware as there is nothing wrong with Garmin XT or the phone hardware. I can't imagine that Nokia don't know about this, it's just a question of whether they will/can do anything about it. |
| patruns |
Posted - 11 nov. 2009 : 15:13:42
psycogeek, you get any further with this without resorting to aGPS? I too do not have a data plan and have no desire to buy one. I have my iPAQ 310 for regular use but I would like to be able to use this while walking, especially when traveling. |
| psycogeek |
Posted - 25 juil. 2009 : 02:18:27
good idea, agps on, but access to data transfer set to ask permission. the thing keeps begging to connect , when i tell it NO, i hear that familiar Brapp in my speakers, of the phone connecting to the cell tower. Now i am wondering what it was trying to do when i had told it NO.
dang, wish i just could afford to spend $600 bucks a year on another net connection (data plan) to bad it wont do squat if there is no cell tower, like everywhere i hike.
now i have it down to a repeatable event:
this time i even had a postition lock on 3 sats, which is common, to have about 2.5 sats .
with a position lock at that time, should the thing be able to snag the other sats?
I dont even know how that works, but i do know that after the 2nd or 3rd aquire , usually the GPSs then rapidly aquire the rest of the available sats.
but Hours later with 3 sats and a postiton lock, ONLY those 3 would be locked in. i close the gps Turn on the Assist and BAM 9 sats and a good signal lock on 7 of them.
so its failing like clockwork :-) and Fully explains the hours and hours of User data i have been reading about the unit, and its lock and aquire time and accuracy.
generally users say:
a few seconds to a few minutes to aquire on assist
a few seconds to about 20 minutes (mabey hour) to aquire without assist
what they didnt say, although i could read between the lines, the non-assisted doesnt have a good lock just a postion via about 3 sats. as indicated by them indicating that its not really accurate
What is it that most GPS recievers would use , to do that RAPID connect to the "rest of the Sats" after it gains a first 2d or 3d lock from 3 sats? |
| gpspassion |
Posted - 23 juil. 2009 : 11:22:03
Looks like they've hard coded the GPS to AGPS, maybe you could try leaving AGPS on and stopping data transfers ? |
| psycogeek |
Posted - 23 juil. 2009 : 04:38:07
back from testing it much longer, and fiddling with it.
i have spent days trying to get a lock and it wont, UNTIL i turn on AGPS and aquire data from the assist server.
after i get "assist" i can get 7 of 12 good signals that waver a bit, while its holding 6-7 Sats , the tracking it shows is very close, only getting off a bit when i lose a few of the sats.
(7 of 12 , meaning after 5 min or so my other gps would have actually aquired up to 12, the signal is to low on the other 5 to HOLD, although it jumps between different 6-7 sats)
so, completly usable, then close everything, even restart or whatever (different tests) then turn off Assisted server connection, and bring it back up and nothing again for HOURS it will not connect.
other Notes: the GPS reciever thing does actually turn off when no program is accessing it, which conserves power.
It seems to be able to share? i had BOTH the gps viewing app, and a map app getting data from the gps device at the same time, and working? |
| gpspassion |
Posted - 22 juil. 2009 : 00:46:27
Could be something wrong with the antenna indeed, as per my testing, tracking was decent on the N95, don't think it would be worse on the 5800. |
| psycogeek |
Posted - 22 juil. 2009 : 00:01:30
http://www.semsons.com/gpsrean.html
i never knew those even existed, a gps repeater sorta thing.
yes i have a hp310, with a great gps, but my old phone got stolen, because i left it in the car  because it was useless without a signal from cell tower. (where people arent there is rarely cell service)
Sooo, this phone was going to have a purpose, if only rarely, but if it wont work without AGPS , there is no agps out in the boondies, because there is no cell coverage.
i am thinking (now that i finnaly got a single lock) that internally the antenna isnt even connected , all the other devices would have had 12+ sats going outside here.
i dont know where the antenna is in the device, for best orientation, or where the gps power level settings or are to hack or anything.
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| gpspassion |
Posted - 21 juil. 2009 : 23:43:56
You can buy a reradiating antenna from www.semsons.com I believe, but I'm not sure it's worth the investment since you have an iPaq 310 to navigate I think ? |
| psycogeek |
Posted - 21 juil. 2009 : 23:17:43
ahh, i see, so where do i get/make a re-radiating antenna
i have had it outside for 3 - 8 hour sessions, inside for the rest of the time ON, and it has finnaly got 3 sattalites locked in Woooooo!
but then no more satalites locked after i finnaly got the 3?
with AGPS $$$ it locked up in less than 20 minutes
dont have a data plan, so agps is not an option, i already got stuck with $1.30 charges for not observing what was connecting to the evil charge you to death phone company :-) |
| gpspassion |
Posted - 21 juil. 2009 : 21:52:38
Not sure what GPS chipset they put in there, TI I suppose, like on the N95. TTFF is always going to be slow on a phone without AGPS, but I'd found tracking to be decent -> http://www.gpspassion.com/fr/articles.asp?id=226 |
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