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| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| offthegrid |
Posted - 12 juin 2012 : 02:17:40
Details on Apple Website : >> LINK <<
Original post : This was only a matter of time. This hasn't hit their share price yet but I have to believe that the stock will jump tomorrow on the news.
Great news for TomTom fans.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/06/11/apple-tomtom-ios-6-maps/
Been wondering exactly which data service is replacing Google as Apple's map provider? According to these leaked screenshots (shown above) from the iOS 6 developer beta running on an iPhone 4S, it appears to be TomTom. The company is no stranger to iOS, as its navigation app and car kit have been available on the iPhone since 2009. On an interesting note, the maps application specifically mentions "data from TomTom, others," which means there may be other suppliers that aren't getting called out by name. We'll keep you posted as we hear more what's going on behind-the-scenes.
Update 1 : TomTom has independently confirmed to us that it indeed "has signed a global agreement with Apple for maps and related information."
Update 2 : TomTom up 15% in European trading. Like shooting fish in a barrel. |
| 15 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| wco81 |
Posted - 14 oct. 2012 : 06:16:42
Just got the iPhone 5 this past week and put the navigation to the test today.
It wasn't the most toughest test, just a trip from Santa Clara valley to San Francisco for the day. I was going to use my Garmin to find off street parking in the City but I searched for parking garages and had found one with decent rates and was going to plug in the address.
Instead I said to Siri "give me directions Bartlett-Mission garage and it found it. So I just went with it. Took my Garmin but didn't turn it on. I have a car charger with USB ports so I hooked up the iPhone. Didn't have a mount so I laid it between the front seats. Turned the volume all the way up and I could hear the turn directions well enough, though there's some resonance in the speaker output.
The screen displays a zoomed in view of the immediate road with exits clearly labeled. It had some generic 3D buildings on the sides of 280 where there are some homes sparsely spaced out. On the top is the destination with the ETA. There I are buttons to end the navigation or an overview button which will zoom out to show your whole route.
You can pinch zoom the overview screen, which I think is a HUGE improvement in UI over PNDs. There is nothing like it on my Garmin. I'd have to tap the minus bottom many times and recenter it awkwardly as the sluggish redraw and poor responsiveness would make for a sluggish experience. And probably not a good idea to do while driving. I did that in Italy once to confirm the routing and set a waypoint in order to force the Garmin to reroute the way I wanted to go.
Well with the pinch zoom and the capacitive screen, the redraws are instant so you can see and change the route if necessary. I didn't try this but on the way back, while it was navigating, I asked Siri to search for restaurants from the Chipotle chain and it found four and said two were actually not far off my current route. It displayed addresses of the four along with distances. I could just tap one of them and it would reroute.
Before I had set off I actually ran the Chipotle app while I was still in San Francisco and it churned and churned and didn't return any results.
Overall the experience was good. It rerouted instantly when I missed a turn. It updated the distance to the next turn much more frequently than my Garmin. It doesn't say "recalculating" like the Garmin, just does it. Maybe it would be good if it indicated so that you know you missed the original turn.
It didn't warn me to stay in certain lanes near a major interchange like my Garmin does. In fact the Garmin goes into 3D mode and shows the signs over the lanes and indicates which lanes to stay on. iOS navigation also directed me to make a u turn at an intersection where u turn was not allowed. In fact it was at a freeway on ramp.
Otherwise I'm going to look for a mount. Specifically it has to be a mount which has to be portrait or it can rotate to portrait because the display is more useful in portrait, showing more of the route on both the navigation and overview screens.
On the way up, I had the screen on all the time and the iPhone got a little warm. But if I locked the screen, it would black out and then display the main routing screen as it gave directions. If I wanted to see the overview screen I'd have to unlock the screen.
I think the interesting test will be overseas. Would I tell Siri to look for parking nearby or pronounce foreign destination names as they'd be pronounced in English? Or would I say the foreign word for parking? |
| Kex |
Posted - 23 sept. 2012 : 19:54:13
I really do think the key to this is going to be how quickly Apple can upgrade the maps data, specifically POI information. How were Google maps when they first came out? Were they not using TeleAtlas or other partners for a long time in many countries? and how long did it take them to improve using customer input? It seems to me that if the customer input for corrections is handled expediently, things might look very different in six months from now.
Other complaints concern the lack of public transportation options that were available with Google. Very important, I should think, in cities like New York, London, Paris, Tokyo ...; less so in cities like Los Angeles, but still very important for tourists everywhere who don't want to rent a vehicle.
Finally, some are complaining about the loss of street view, helping to figure out what a location should look like when driving in unfamiliar areas. |
| danham |
Posted - 22 sept. 2012 : 19:24:13
My son, who lives in NYC, has upgraded and says he is having no problems with Maps. My daughter, who lives in MA, is taking my advice [g] and waiting until Apple fixes Maps. The problem, from what I have read, is two-fold. First, Yelp's POIs make Garmin's look accurate and up to date [g]. They are terrible. Second, even though TomTom's underlying map data is probably OK, Apple has not done a good job of integrating it with their very pretty but complex and flawed display mechanism, hence the now infamous glitches like the Eiffel Tower looking like a Dali painting.
I'm intrigued by iOS6 for several reasons, especially crowd-sourced traffic. I use the Google map app on my iPhone 4 to check for traffic before setting off on trips and (at least when a passenger is available to push the buttons) along the way.
Apple has reportedly put its Maps team on "lockdown" until the glitches are addressed. I'm holding off on iOS6 until that happens.
-dan |
| gpspassion |
Posted - 22 sept. 2012 : 16:06:15
So has anyone upgraded to iOS 6 ? I haven't yet but according to the Apple’s Maps App: Just How Bad Is It? article there are scores of problems. Many of them seem to be software related rather directly due to map errors (which would be strange as they are apparently using TomTom/TeleAtlas maps) but the end result is not very convincing at this point. |
| offthegrid |
Posted - 20 juin 2012 : 04:20:30
Ford does use Sync as a lead selling point - do they not? I see it in a lot of Ford ads on tv and in print. They are using that as a selling point on those cars they want to sell. Not the only selling point but a selling point.
The Siri button is not going to be user configured because Apple wants to be the headend controlling your vehicle entertainment and nav.
So there is a battle going on for control an auto's electronics. Microsoft is with Ford and right now practically everyone else has sided with Apple apparently. Android isn't in the race yet. We are seeing the beginning of strategies being formed for the future.
The best voice recognition software will win. I've read reviews of Ford Sync and people really enjoy it and surely that will bring back customers over and over again. Along with that Ford makes a great car.
I too am getting off topic but this is enjoyable banter. |
| wco81 |
Posted - 20 juin 2012 : 04:08:28
I was thinking more of the import brands, especially the luxury brands.
They only have inventory of cars with expensive packages and if you want built-in hands free or HID headlights, you have to get a whole tech package which includes the GPS.
Anyways, one motivation for the car makers who sign on with Apple would be that Apple does heavy advertising so they really push their brand and product names. Car buyers who have iOS devices will be aware of Siri and may be more inclined to buy a Siri-ready car than one that isn't. It would at least be an additional check box for them to tick off when appraising car features. |
| Kex |
Posted - 20 juin 2012 : 04:00:48
I tend to agree that the "Siri button" really needs to be a user configured voice control button, which could integrate with Android voice control (and potentially others) as well. We'll see how it is implemented, but the manufacturers probably consider that the average iOS 6 user is going to have a higher net worth than the median, and is therefore worth more effort on their part. Clearly, if iOS 6 would allow an iPhone user to integrate mapping features (including the TomTom app, with IQ Routes mapping and HD Traffic) using the vehicle's display options and audio system, that would be even better. That link you posted shows how useful it is to have full integration using a phone based application.
I also wonder if any manufacturer makes much money on those expensive integrated systems, currently, despite their seemingly exorbitant pricing. |
| Dewi |
Posted - 20 juin 2012 : 01:33:33
Disclosure: a close relative of mine is part of Ford management (you probably guessed that already  )
I can tell you Ford doesn't think that way. They are not looking to sell $2,000 onboard navigation systems anymore. They are looking to sell $15,000-$60,000+ vehicles that customers want in a very competitive business. Whether that includes an onboard navigation system or some offboard solution (or no navigation), they are open to it.
I don't know if you are familiar with how a offboard product like Scout integrates, but if not check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6le6P4cHks
What irks me about the Apple announcement is the presumptuousness of it. Why would anyone implicitly commit to any particular smartphone platform for the lifespan of a vehicle. (Unless those who have already drunk apple flavored "Kool-Aid".) Smartphones are changing all the time. I wouldn't commit to one ecosystem for more than two years.
Anyway, sorry for getting a little OT. |
| offthegrid |
Posted - 19 juin 2012 : 20:40:15
Ford loses money with Siri as the front end which is the point.
quote:
Originally posted by Dewi
"Sync replicates all these features..."
--> The other way around. When Siri buttons are eventually integrated in cars Apple will replicate what is already offered by Sync today.
"Ford has every interest in keeping those features in its dashboard rather than ceding them to the iPhone."
--> But they are on record as being solution-agnostic with this respect. Proof of this are multiple navigation solutions which include on-board (integrated) and off-board (Sync Services Directions or TeleNav Scout, as an example). Scout is being offered despite the potential of losing sales of integrated navigation options, because that's what some customers want. There's also no reason why any other smartphone-based navigation app or consolidated voice control app (eg. vlingo) couldn't be controlled via Sync in the future.
I think we're saying about the same thing. I realise from the PR that Ford has not signed on to rebrand their system with the addition of a Siri-branded button. That wouldn't make sense. My point was Ford doesn't have to develop an integrated Siri button as it already can utilize Sync whenever it needs to. The fact that access to the cloud is a requirement for Siri (or Scout for that matter) to even work at all is a big downside in my mind.
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| wco81 |
Posted - 19 juin 2012 : 18:56:46
Isn't Sync a co-branded with Microsoft product?
Anyways, the car makers would like you to pony up for fancy mobile electronics built into the car. But like GPS systems, they're often overpriced and inferior.
Not to mention by the time they get out into the market, they're probably quickly outdated as mobile devices are on a blistering development path.
If a car buyer had a choice, would they pay thousands more for some tech package in a car or get the latest tablet/smart phone, which will cost them far less? They'd have to find some mounting solution but they'd get way more tech bang for the buck, just as PNDs are better values than the built-in GPS from the auto makers.
But you know some of these marques will try to market the Siri button as part of expensive tech packages, like $3 thousand or more to get GPS, bluetooth, HID and the damn Siri button. |
| Dewi |
Posted - 19 juin 2012 : 18:49:22
"Sync replicates all these features..."
--> The other way around. When Siri buttons are eventually integrated in cars Apple will replicate what is already offered by Sync today.
"Ford has every interest in keeping those features in its dashboard rather than ceding them to the iPhone."
--> But they are on record as being solution-agnostic with this respect. Proof of this are multiple navigation solutions which include on-board (integrated) and off-board (Sync Services Directions or TeleNav Scout, as an example). Scout is being offered despite the potential of losing sales of integrated navigation options, because that's what some customers want. There's also no reason why any other smartphone-based navigation app or consolidated voice control app (eg. vlingo) couldn't be controlled via Sync in the future.
I think we're saying about the same thing. I realise from the PR that Ford has not signed on to rebrand their system with the addition of a Siri-branded button. That wouldn't make sense. My point was Ford doesn't have to develop an integrated Siri button as it already can utilize Sync whenever it needs to. The fact that access to the cloud is a requirement for Siri (or Scout for that matter) to even work at all is a big downside in my mind. |
| offthegrid |
Posted - 18 juin 2012 : 21:39:23
The head of mobile applications at Inrix debunks the myth that Waze is providing routing and traffic, several blogs have said incorrectly that Waze is providing the traffic and routing which as we know is wrong.
intomobilequote:
Kevin Foreman:
Actually Waze is providing map data only, No traffic data.
https://twitter.com/#!/kforeman
quote:
Originally posted by Dewi
quote:
Originally posted by offthegrid
TomTom will garner every other cell company and this also gives them a foot in the door with all the car companies that are putting a Siri button on their steering wheels which was most every car company except Ford, Nissan and some smaller ones.
Why do you say except Ford? Ford is actually ahead of the game in this respect, as they already equip their newer models with Sync AppLink which would allow their voice command button to work with Siri with the "flick of a switch".
This article shows what Ford not working with Apple means.
http://gigaom.com/apple/ford-versus-apple-siri-versus-sync-over-connected-car/
The big red flag is navigation. When you ask Siri for directions, it isn’t accessing Ford’s own vehicle nav system and services; rather it’s tapping into Apple’s new Maps service (also unveiled at WWDC). The other features, such as dictating text messages, playing stored music, and reading back notifications seem innocuous enough, since they tap into the iPhone’s core functions, not competing services’. But Sync replicates all of these features through its own voice commands, and Ford has every interest in keeping those features in its dashboard rather than ceding them to the iPhone.
Ford won’t make revenue off a dictated email, but it will off its own core in-vehicle navigation, information and entertainment services. Ford is also turning Sync into a platform, inviting third-party developers like Pandora, Stitcher and most recently MOG to develop apps that take advantage not only of Sync’s voice-command capabilities but the console display and dashboard controls.
If Ford, however, gives up even basic functions like message notifications to Siri, it basically starts ceding its platform, becoming a peripheral set of speakers and display to the iPhone. |
| gpspassion |
Posted - 18 juin 2012 : 20:26:36
quote:
Originally posted by wco81
Hoe would you guys compares the TomTom POIs to the Google Maps data set?
I would say Google is better than Garmin's/Navteq. Certainly a lot easier and faster to search.
There's no comparison really :
1. Google off-board POIs : full text search, everything and the kitchen sink, not always properly placed (automatic geocoding)
2. TeleAtlas/TomTom on-board POIs : cumbersome search by category (yes you can do a text search now but it's slow), placed by TeleAtlas map makers in theory.
Having said that, TomTom seem to be pushing a "TomTom Places" service now in Europe : http://places.tomtom.com/ that is clearly trying to compete with Google Local, or whatever it's called now, and would take care of the full search and server lookups.
The irony is that people may have to buy the TomTom Navigator software for iOS to maintain access to the Google POI search...
@offthegrid - Since the iOS 6 GPS app is server based, I see no problem having IQ Routes data residing on the server. |
| Dewi |
Posted - 17 juin 2012 : 20:46:29
quote:
Originally posted by offthegrid
TomTom will garner every other cell company and this also gives them a foot in the door with all the car companies that are putting a Siri button on their steering wheels which was most every car company except Ford, Nissan and some smaller ones.
Why do you say except Ford? Ford is actually ahead of the game in this respect, as they already equip their newer models with Sync AppLink which would allow their voice command button to work with Siri with the "flick of a switch". |
| Kex |
Posted - 17 juin 2012 : 19:08:11
it's a little off topic, but TomTom's POI locations are sufficient in my opinion, if you're lost. I just tried them recently in a smallish town where I was not familiar with the area. I did get to a few places that weren't there, or weren't exactly where they were supposed to be, but I did find what I wanted eventually. A familiar scenario for most (all?) PND users, and somewhat frustrating. However, if you have TomTom LIVE Services, the connected local search function included with that integrates seamlessly with the navigation functions of the device, making the limitations of the official POI data pretty much meaningless. I don't think the POI data is as complete as Google maps search, though.
I'd also say that it's easier to use Google maps for search on a decent smartphone, so hopefully, the POI options with iOS 6 will also be better than the TomTom or Navteq. How does the current TomTom app for iPhone integrate with the search functions of the phone? Maybe it'll be a moot point. |
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