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| impreza276 |
Posted - 27 avr. 2011 : 20:40:54
Just saw the report on Engadget that TomTom sold anonymous user data to the Dutch police which was subsquently used to determine the best places to set speed traps. |
| 7 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Niko |
Posted - 19 mai 2011 : 05:28:53
quote:
Niko, you're forgetting that nobody has ever been "turned in"
My point wasn't about the anonymity but a dig at the "idealistic" view that all speeding deserved punishment, especially the fact that revenue raising is primarily the purpose of the fine and not to save lives necessarily.
Encouraging this is TomTom's fault and the issue of losing lives at black spots because of a temporary radar rather than a permanent (that the government won't do because of costs) makes it not so mole hill issue. |
| Kex |
Posted - 15 mai 2011 : 18:28:57
Niko, you're forgetting that nobody has ever been "turned in". The data is anonymous. Even if TomTom were cheating, and secretly giving user specific data (which is probably only possible from a Live Services device with a SIM card, or when the unit updates and "sends" it's IQ Routes history or something), there probably isn't a civilized country in the world where this method of prosecution might be held up. For that to work, amongst many other things, there would probably have to be a warning on the box telling the prospective buyer that their data may be used against them in court. In that case, everyone at risk (regular offenders, not just casual ones) would turn off IQ Routes reporting and the effectiveness of IQ Routes would suffer.
All this is doing (or was doing) for the Dutch police is identifying the stretches of road where people in general tend to speed. How effectively they use that data would be up to them. For example, if they use that data to identify a school zone where the limit is 25 mph (here anyway), but users frequently speed at 50 mph because it happens to be a very straight street, then some of us would be all for putting a speed trap there to catch those people and dissuade future offenders, before a child gets hit by a car that couldn't stop in time. Obviously, if drivers start being fined for driving at 60 mph instead of 55 mph in a rural area with few cars on the road, that would be very different.
The examples above are extreme on purpose to highlight one side of the argument (and make me seem sanctimoniously close to sainthood at the same time) and opinions are sure to vary. It's the whole "safety vs. persecuting harmless residents just to make money for the city" debate, which isn't going to be solved here (there are plenty of more contentious forums for that). On the whole, however, this is still making a mountain out of a mole hill for some of us, and if I get caught speeding at 10 mph or more above the limit in a residential area, I'll blame myself for throwing my money away for nothing, not TomTom. If I get caught for "speeding" at 5 mph above the limit in a rural area with little or no traffic, I'll blame a crooked officer with neo-nazi tendencies and possibly corrupt local officials, not TomTom.
IQ Routes has been such a tremendous success for diverting around rush hour commute traffic in Los Angeles that you won't see me switch from TomTom yet, unless it were for a Garmin ... but that would only happen if and when Garmin got trafficTrends working properly. |
| Niko |
Posted - 15 mai 2011 : 13:06:55
quote:
Originally posted by gpspassion
Yes, it does look "bad" but they're a business out to maximize profit and their statement seems reasonable to me...and at the end of the day, the use of TomTom's crowd-sourced data only hurt the people who were beaking the law by speeding on the road so it's hard to feel too sorry for them.
It's an act of desperation, and not to become bankrupt if anything. It is inconceivable that speedsters are a minority of all motorists and that in-inadvertent speeding deserves such beratement. Put your hand up all those who deliberately or accidentally sped and didn't get caught... well that's everyone. Don't forget to visit your local Police Station and hand yourself in, no wait, TomTom has done that for you!
When I see a fixed camera at an accident prone intersection with a warning sign rather than a multanova (portable speed camera) I will believe in the "safety" aspect of punishing drivers.
It's difficult to recall your data after the fact, TomTom did the wrong thing, no question about it. No doubt many will be put off using TomTom and see how well their maximising profits work then. |
| WackyT |
Posted - 01 mai 2011 : 02:59:55
This just goes to show the one and only concern police worldwide have, ticket revenue. |
| gpspassion |
Posted - 29 avr. 2011 : 03:12:27
Yes, it does look "bad" but they're a business out to maximize profit and their statement seems reasonable to me...and at the end of the day, the use of TomTom's crowd-sourced data only hurt the people who were beaking the law by speeding on the road so it's hard to feel too sorry for them. |
| Kex |
Posted - 29 avr. 2011 : 03:07:37
These articles would tend to suggest that the original intention was to manage congestion, but that the Dutch Police decided they could do more with the data. It's still something of a storm in a tea cup in my opinion and I'm not going to feed on any associated paranoia that might manifest itself in relation to this (as long as anonymity is completely secured). It should probably not detract from the immense usefulness of IQ Routes.
I haven't viewed the video apology in this article:
http://www.gpsbusinessnews.com/Dutch-Police-Mines-TomTom-Data-to-Place-Speedcams_a2994.html
quote:
As part of its business to business activities TomTom is reselling historical speed databases to help governments and local authorities understand congestion. But this data can be used in very different ways, as shown by the Dutch police which used it to map the best location for their speed cameras.
Obviously the data sold by TomTom is completely anonymized, but it nevertheless made some waves in Netherlands and brought some bad press to TomTom to the point that its CEO Harold Goddijn made a written and video statement about it yesterday.
There's even some humor in this one:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/27/tomtom-user-data-sold-to-danish-police-used-to-determine-ideal/ quote:
We like it when the accumulated speed data from GPS devices helps us avoid traffic incidents and school zones. As it turns out, though, there are some other uses for the same stats. Dutch news outlet AD is reporting that such data captured by TomTom navigation devices has been purchased by the country's police force and is being used to determine where speed traps and cameras should be placed. TomTom was reportedly unaware its data was being used in such a way, but if the police would only agree to sell the data on the location of its speed cameras and traps back to TomTom, why, this could be the beginning of a beautiful relationship.
The whole thing even made it onto a major news broadcast here in L.A. (I think it was ABC local, but it might have been NBC). |
| gpspassion |
Posted - 28 avr. 2011 : 18:54:04
Very unfortunate indeed but we'll have to wait for an official statement to know exactly what happened, still nothing here http://corporate.tomtom.com/releases.cfm although some reports clame TomTom extended their apologies for what happened.
Actually there is something on their website here : http://www.tomtom.com/page/facts?Lid=4
quote:
This is what we really do with your data
Dear TomTom customer,
Customers come first at TomTom.
When you use one of our products we ask for your permission to collect travel time information on an anonymous basis. The vast majority of you do indeed grant us that permission. When you connect your TomTom to a computer we aggregate this information and use it for a variety of applications, most importantly to create high quality traffic information and to route you around traffic jams.
We also make this information available to local governments and authorities. It helps them to better understand where congestion takes place, where to build new roads and how to make roads safer.
We are actively promoting the use of this information because we believe we can help make roads safer and less congested.
We are now aware that the police have used traffic information that you have helped to create to place speed cameras at dangerous locations where the average speed is higher than the legally allowed speed limit. We are aware a lot of our customers do not like the idea and we will look at if we should allow this type of usage.
This is what we really do with the data:
* We ask for your permission to collect historical data. You can opt in or opt out and can disable the data collection function at any time.
* If you are using a LIVE device, you receive traffic information in real time and you automatically contribute to generating traffic information.
* We make all traffic data anonymous. We can never trace it back to you or your device.
* We turn anonymous data into traffic information to give you the fastest route available and route you through traffic jams in real time.
* We are working with road authorities around the world to use anonymous traffic information to help make roads flow more efficiently and safer.
* Our goal is to create a driver community capable of reducing traffic congestion for everyone.
Sincerely,
Harold Goddijn
CEO, TomTom
Again it's unfortunate and I've had my doubts about TomTom collecting data for free from their customers since they announced they were doing it in August 2006, for IQ Routes as we later found out...and of course to generate more business. |
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