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Page: of 30

Lizard_weasel

USA
892 Posts

Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  22:34:19  Show Profile
I haven't done an uninstall in months, and I have very rarely ever had a problem with Mapopolis.

Axim x50v, A05 ROM/Globalsat BT-338 Bluetooth GPS/2gb PNY SD card/2gb Kingston CF card/Mapopolis 4.7RC4 with NE maps.
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AllanHvass

Denmark
396 Posts

Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  22:37:36  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by CColtManM

Also a reminder, unistall completely before reinstalling. Helped me out more then once.


Unless you're troubleshooting specific issues related to upgrading, that shouldn't really be necessary anymore. Somewhere along v. 4.7 this was a new feature that you could upgrade on top of older versions and keep the settings. I used to do it the old way as well, but I've yet to see an issue that's related to not deleting the old settings file since v. 4.7. And especially for us beta testers it's a huge benefit, because it lowers the barrier to test new beta versions significantly, as there's a number of settings I don't have to repeat for each beta install; my setup is certainly quite different from the default settings

Best regards
Allan Hvass

Using SmartPhone QTek 8020, 512MB miniSD, BlueTooth enabled Holux GM-210, Mapopolis, Parrot BT car kit
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jgoggan

USA
330 Posts

Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  23:12:58  Show Profile
This isn't new to the beta as far as I know, but it is an ongoing problem that I'd love to see a fix for...

Basically, my normal procedure often goes like this: I use Mapopolis to drive to my destination and arrive in a hurry. So, I just hit the power button on my Axim, drop it into it's case, and go to wherever I need to be.

Often, I'll end up not using my PDA again at all that day. The next morning, it is usually DEAD.

What I believe is happening is that it activates itself around midnight to update daily tasks, alarms, and such. (That's what I've been told most PocketPCs do, at least -- a midnight temporary power-on.) Since Mapopolis is running (see above where I just hit the power button in the car -- I never closed Mapopolis) and I have the "don't power off" feature selected, it appears to either stay on or otherwise draw normal power! Thus killing my battery by the time I use it the next day.

Does that seem like it might be the case? Is there a way to detect that the device has powered up only for the nightly update and not manually -- so that Mapopolis would NOT enforce the "don't power off" option when it is in this state?

- John...


---
Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4500 Car Mount w/ wired Pharos button GPS
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irishjohn

Ireland
141 Posts

Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  23:29:08  Show Profile
Hi Ris

Loaded 02 not much to report here, went for a spin down the unknown motorway and the same thing, rerouted about 10 times and then gave up. Another problem I have is I have a landmark saved and no mater what I do when I add it to favourite I cant route to it unless I go SHOW MAPLET chick on it and then click route to. Apart form that Mapopolis is Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat.

Regards
John

Dell Axim x50v / 1gb sd card / Europe Ireland Mapopolis 4.7
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jarredduq

USA
27 Posts

Posted - 26 avr. 2006 :  23:37:00  Show Profile  Visit jarredduq's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by irishjohn

Hi Ris

Loaded 02 not much to report here, went for a spin down the unknown motorway and the same thing, rerouted about 10 times and then gave up. Another problem I have is I have a landmark saved and no mater what I do when I add it to favourite I cant route to it unless I go SHOW MAPLET chick on it and then click route to. Apart form that Mapopolis is Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat.

Regards
John

Dell Axim x50v / 1gb sd card / Europe Ireland Mapopolis 4.7



I'm having the same issue with maplets too, you cannot route to a maplet if it is added to favorites.

Palm Treo 700w - Mapopolis 4.71.02
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lbendlin

USA
482 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  00:20:57  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by jgoggan Is there a way to detect that the device has powered up only for the nightly update and not manually -- so that Mapopolis would NOT enforce the "don't power off" option when it is in this state?


Not really. How should Mapopolis know that you are sleeping at midnight. You might have switched the device on yourself at 12 am...

Your only solution/workaround is to uncheck "Disable Auto Power Off" in Mapopolis.

Lutz
iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
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Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  00:30:27  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by jgoggan

This isn't new to the beta as far as I know, but it is an ongoing problem that I'd love to see a fix for...

Basically, my normal procedure often goes like this: I use Mapopolis to drive to my destination and arrive in a hurry. So, I just hit the power button on my Axim, drop it into it's case, and go to wherever I need to be.

Often, I'll end up not using my PDA again at all that day. The next morning, it is usually DEAD.

What I believe is happening is that it activates itself around midnight to update daily tasks, alarms, and such. (That's what I've been told most PocketPCs do, at least -- a midnight temporary power-on.) Since Mapopolis is running (see above where I just hit the power button in the car -- I never closed Mapopolis) and I have the "don't power off" feature selected, it appears to either stay on or otherwise draw normal power! Thus killing my battery by the time I use it the next day.

Does that seem like it might be the case? Is there a way to detect that the device has powered up only for the nightly update and not manually -- so that Mapopolis would NOT enforce the "don't power off" option when it is in this state?

- John...


---
Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4500 Car Mount w/ wired Pharos button GPS

Hmmmm... this is a very interesting problem. There's no way to programmatically detect why the device has powered on, so we can't really auto-disable the option to auto-disable power off based on this condition.

I can suggest two work-arounds: stop GPS and/or exit Mapopolis (Tools>Exit) before powering off the PDA. Then the option will not be applied, and Mapopolis will allow the device to power off.

I'm trying to think of changes we could make to the feature... suppose it would allow power off if the GPS is running in Mapopolis but the hardware is "not responding"? Presumably in your situation, the GPS is off and unavailable, which implies that you aren't driving with it and don't need it to keep your PPC on, which may imply that we can safely allow the device to turn off in these circumstances. Does anyone foresee pitfalls with this idea? Do we need to make it two options? [X] Disable auto-power off (As-is) vs. [X] Disable auto-power off UNLESS gps is not responding. Hmmm, or this could take a form in the UI like:


[X] Disable auto-power off
    [X] Allow auto-power off if GPS is not responding


---

Also, I think your assessment of the problem sounds very reasonable, and is probably correct. However, if you want to verify that is actually what happens, you might try running the diagnostic version (wait for .03). The log would show time stamps indicating when it ran, so you could actually verify whether the device is turning on in the middle of the night or not.

I can also suggest an alternate theory about why the battery dies: it's not really "off" it's just "suspended". It is not possible to actually turn OFF a WM PPC, only to suspend it. In a suspended state, a WM Pocket PC still draws from the battery in order to keep the RAM powered to avoid the memory getting erased. WM5 improves this so that when the battery eventually dies it behaves like a soft reset instead of a hard/factory reset (avoiding the memory wipe) but my understanding is that it still drains the battery while suspended, if not only to continue feeding power to the RAM and keyboard (the power button). So it's possible that your device does not actually turn itself on in the middle of the night, but rather it could be draining a lot of battery life while suspended.

Speculating here... maybe it's possible that the PPC continues to power the serial port hardware while suspended, since there is a device physically connected to it (your Pharos), which causes it to drain the battery faster than usual while suspended. Maybe unplugging the GPS from the PPC would make give you a longer battery life while suspended.

You should normally be able to get at least a few days of battery life to support a suspended PPC, so it's a big stretch to say that it's just draining too much battery life while suspended, but I felt it was worth mentioning.

Does anyone have any other thoughts about this issue?

Best Regards,
Ris

Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
Mapopolis.com Inc

C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
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irishjohn

Ireland
141 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  01:03:39  Show Profile
hi jarredduq
I have a couple of hundrad maplets and there is only one or two I can't add to favourates and then route to that favourate most of them work

Regards
john

Dell Axim x50v / 1gb sd card / Europe Ireland Mapopolis 4.7
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RixPDA

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  03:09:17  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Ris

quote:
Originally posted by RixPDA

"Find" doesn't seem to work with named landmark favorites but does work with poi favorites from map data. Similar to my previous post concerning "Navigation". Can you confirm?

Rick
Dell X50v, ROM A03, 1GB CF&SD, WM2003SE, Std Video, Mapopolis v4.7.01, NE Maps, Dell BT309 GPS

This is a known bug. Sometimes a favorite cannot be found when using the favorites list, usually after closing and restarting the program. This only happens with favorites that are references to POIs. Favorites which are references to street addresses or intersections do not appear to have the bug. The POI can still be found by a normal search, but something has become broken in the reference data that is the Favorite and the REFERENCE cannot be found, so it says something about not being able to find the map for this favorite. We've been trying to solve this bug for a long time with unfortunately little success.

Best Regards,
Ris

Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
Mapopolis.com Inc

C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!



quote:
Originally posted by IrishJohn
Another problem I have is I have a landmark saved and no mater what I do when I add it to favourite I cant route to it unless I go SHOW MAPLET chick on it and then click route to. Apart form that Mapopolis is Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrreat.



quote:
Originally posted by jarredduq
I'm having the same issue with maplets too, you cannot route to a maplet if it is added to favorites.



Aren't we talking about the same problem I mentioned a page or two back? Old problem, no solution?

Rick
Dell X50v, ROM A03, 1GB CF&SD, WM2003SE, Std Video, Mapopolis v4.7.02, NE Maps, Dell BT309 GPS
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jgoggan

USA
330 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  03:29:19  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by lbendlin

Not really. How should Mapopolis know that you are sleeping at midnight. You might have switched the device on yourself at 12 am...


Um, that's why I asked if there was a PROGRAMMATIC WAY to tell if the device had powered on from sleep mode to do the daily updates. That is how Mapopolis would know that I didn't switch it on myself. Did you even read what I asked?

The fact that MS doesn't provide a way to know this programmatically is just poor design on the part of MS.

quote:
Your only solution/workaround is to uncheck "Disable Auto Power Off" in Mapopolis.


No, there are other solutions that COULD be implemented. That is what I wanted to discuss.

- John...



---
Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4500 Car Mount w/ wired Pharos button GPS
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lbendlin

USA
482 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  03:32:33  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
quote:
Originally posted by RisDoes anyone have any other thoughts about this issue?



Even if the GPS is responding - you can still safely switch back off if the GPS position doesn't change substantially (let's say 50 meters in one minute)

Lutz
iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
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jgoggan

USA
330 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  03:37:58  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by Ris

Hmmmm... this is a very interesting problem. There's no way to programmatically detect why the device has powered on, so we can't really auto-disable the option to auto-disable power off based on this condition.


Ok -- that was worth a shot, at least. I think it is crazy that MS hasn't provided a programmatic way to see why a device was activated. They should tell that it was through a power button, awakened from sleep to do automatic tasks, activate by the voice record button, and so on. Oh well...

quote:
I can suggest two work-arounds: stop GPS and/or exit Mapopolis (Tools>Exit) before powering off the PDA. Then the option will not be applied, and Mapopolis will allow the device to power off.


Indeed, I know that would work -- it is just that, once in a while, I just grab my PDA in a hurry and hit the power button thinking I'll close it later. I'll get used to doing it -- just an annoyance I was hoping to avoid.

Basically, I think the idea that someone might forget to close Mapopolis could mean that their device is dead in the morning is a bad thing in any case though -- even if the user is partially to blame.

On a side note, my GPS is in the card (in an intergrated Seidio mount). Any chance of an option for Mapopolis to still auto-shutoff if it can't find the GPS after a certain period? I mean, if "stop GPS" would solve it -- shouldn't a GPS not being present forever also solve it?

quote:
I'm trying to think of changes we could make to the feature... suppose it would allow power off if the GPS is running in Mapopolis but the hardware is "not responding"? Presumably in your situation, the GPS is off and unavailable, which implies that you aren't driving with it and don't need it to keep your PPC on, which may imply that we can safely allow the device to turn off in these circumstances.


Exactly. (I should have read all of your post before replying above since we had the same idea. )

quote:
Also, I think your assessment of the problem sounds very reasonable, and is probably correct. However, if you want to verify that is actually what happens, you might try running the diagnostic version (wait for .03). The log would show time stamps indicating when it ran, so you could actually verify whether the device is turning on in the middle of the night or not.


Sure -- I'll test this when .03 is out just to make sure.

quote:
So it's possible that your device does not actually turn itself on in the middle of the night, but rather it could be draining a lot of battery life while suspended.


Indeed -- could be. I don't actually know that WM5 does the "on in the night" thing. I know that my PPC2003 device did -- I could just leave it out and catch it powering up for about 20 seconds a bit after midnight.

quote:
Speculating here... maybe it's possible that the PPC continues to power the serial port hardware while suspended, since there is a device physically connected to it (your Pharos), which causes it to drain the battery faster than usual while suspended. Maybe unplugging the GPS from the PPC would make give you a longer battery life while suspended.


I need to update my profile. I recently switched to a in-the-mount Seidio mount instead of the Pharos -- so, when this happens, there is indeed no GPS present.

quote:
You should normally be able to get at least a few days of battery life to support a suspended PPC, so it's a big stretch to say that it's just draining too much battery life while suspended, but I felt it was worth mentioning.


Indeed -- I normally easily get a couple days of life out of it -- well beyond actually. So, you're right, something different is happening when Mapopolis is left running -- even with no GPS connected. That is why my guess was that it was actually powering up and staying up -- repeatedly retrying the serial port. I figured that would be enough drain...

In any case, thanks for the reply, Ris. I'll do some more testing (both with the diag version -- and just watching my PDA a few nights to see if it comes on and stays on)...

- John...


---
Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4500 Car Mount w/ wired Pharos button GPS
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guxu

USA
132 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  17:27:04  Show Profile
quote:
suppose it would allow power off if the GPS is running in Mapopolis but the hardware is "not responding"?


quote:
Even if the GPS is responding - you can still safely switch back off if the GPS position doesn't change substantially (let's say 50 meters in one minute)


This could be dangerous. If the user really is using Mapopolis, but somehow the connection was lost (GPS lost fix and etc., but will recover soon), then will the PPC suddenly power off while the user is trying to restore the connection?

The second "motion-detect" suggestion is even more dangerous. Assume you never take Mapopolis for a walk, but you must stop at traffic light before. Do you want to restart Mapopolis after each red light?

So Ris, if you have to implement this "feature", please, PLEASE make it optional.

iPAQ h6315 + BT 338 + free mount
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jgoggan

USA
330 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  17:38:54  Show Profile
These could be very extended timeouts, of course. I think the "1 minute" idea is crazy. How about after 1 HOUR? If there is no movement or no GPS signal -- and no user input -- for an extended period (whatever that would be -- but something LONG), then there is no need to continue to override any "auto-shut off" settings of the PDA.

By doing it that way, I don't see that you'd even have to put the option in there really. I can't think of a reasonable situation where someone that normally has their GPS power off would want that over-ridden and forced to stay on just because they have Mapopolis up, but haven't used it nor received any GPS data for, say, more than an hour?

- John...


---
Dell Axim X51v (WM5); Mapopolis (v4.x); SanDisk 512MB SD; Seidio G4500 Car Mount w/ wired Pharos button GPS
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lbendlin

USA
482 Posts

Posted - 27 avr. 2006 :  18:25:05  Show Profile  Visit lbendlin's Homepage
jgoggan,

I'll ignore your snide remarks for a second, but I would think that this interval could be made configurable. For me one hour would be way too long, for you one minute is way too short etc.

Don't forget the OS timeout - that is normally set to 3 minutes anyhow.

Lutz
iPAQ 6315, various GPS programs and receivers
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