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deichenlaub

USA
127 Posts

Posted - 15 avr. 2006 :  01:21:49  Show Profile
Ris,

Thanks for your reply.

quote:
When you say it stopped routing... did it completely delete the route?


That's exactly it. It wasn't a big deal, because I have taken to saving routs in a file every time. It's just a few clicks to restore the route. One of the really good things about Mapapolis is that when you do this, Mapapolis doesn 't complain that you aren't at the starting point, but just picks everything up right away.


quote:
quote:The other thing I noticed is that Mapapolis seems to be sensitive to the sequence in which I start the program - enter the route - plug in the GPS card. ... When I used this sequence, the GPS refused to start.

So it remained on Not Responding?


I wish I could say I had been methodical about this. But in fact I was trying to get into the rental car and get to my destination. What I remember is that Mapapolis said the GPS was not responding. THe GPS light was not on. I had the impression that Mapapolis had decided it couldn't start the GPS. I couldn't find a way to make it go back and try to start from the beginning (open the port, see if the GPS is there, etc.) I don't remember for sure, but it is pretty likely I had set up the PDA well ahead of time, then left Mapapolis active (with the route) and turned the PDA power off. When I got to the car, I most likely either turned the PDA power on and inserted the GPS; or else inserted the GPS which turns power on for me. This could be a dead state in the GPS driver.

quote:
Before you exited and restarted Mapopolis, did you try anything else to get it working? In particular, my suggestion if this happens again would be to stop GPS in Mapopolis and wait for it to say "Not Running", then remove and reseat the CF card, then start GPS in Mapopolis.


You are quite correct. This is not necessarily a Mapapolis problem but could be a stuck GPS receiver. I assumed the light on the side of the GPS simply meant that power was applied to the CF port, but it might be more complicated than that. I didn't consider the GPS receiver being the problem because Mapapolis never said it was scanning the serial port, or indicat in any way it was looking for the receiver.

I wouldn't worry about starting the GPS receiver too much. In the end, it's not a big deal. The other point is that using the WM5 GPS driver has a high probability of changing this behavior.

Regards,

Dennis

HP iPAQ 2490 / WM5 / Mapopolis / GlobalSAT BC-337 (Holux CF GPS)
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Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 15 avr. 2006 :  02:00:20  Show Profile
Hi deichenlaub, thanks for the nice reply. We have discussed a similar issue over at the Questions forum, which may interest you...

"Mapopolis loses COM4 on WM5?"
http://www.gpspassion.com/forumsen/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=49593

Edited by - Ris on 15 avr. 2006 02:01:33
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joshua362

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2006 :  03:04:16  Show Profile
Hey, where did everyone go! Here is some error log entries from tonight while simply routing home on a known route.

Are there any guidelines as to what the "GetLastError" codes mean? I wonder if my problems are GPS or memory error related (or both). Is it a good idea to do a soft reset before using Mapopolis, I think that would help memory errors, assuming I am getting them.

Regards, Joshua

Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:40:05
WM message 32771
WM Parms 0, 0
Code 5
Flags 0
Address 33195716
XR Parms 0, 573046784
GetLastError: 6
Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:46:17
WM message 512
WM Parms 1, 21758169
Code 5
Flags 0
Address 33194840
XR Parms 0, 338165760
GetLastError: 0
Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:46:53
WM message 512
WM Parms 0, 22937889
Code 5
Flags 0
Address 33194840
XR Parms 0, 338231296
GetLastError: 120
Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:47:05
WM message 512
WM Parms 0, 23396595
Code 5
Flags 0
Address 33197052
XR Parms 0, 338231296
GetLastError: 120
Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:47:27
WM message 513
WM Parms 1, 21430607
Code 5
Flags 0
Address 33197052
XR Parms 0, 338231296
GetLastError: 120
Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:47:30
WM message 513
WM Parms 1, 22216932
Code 5
Flags 0
Address 33196380
XR Parms 0, 338231296
GetLastError: 120

Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
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irishjohn

Ireland
141 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2006 :  21:53:14  Show Profile
They are all working very hard at 4.71.02 it will be great wont it Riss and Lamar

Dell Axim x50v / 1gb sd card / Europe Ireland Mapopolis 4.7
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RixPDA

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 20 avr. 2006 :  23:27:24  Show Profile
I noticed that after choosing tools/navigation/find route, when I select choose destination and a drop down menu appears. The top half is select, etc and the bottom half is a list of recent selections or favorites, not sure. Anyway if I select an item from the bottom half that is a landmark that I gave a location name, it doesn't transfer to the destination field. In other words I can't select it from the favorites list. However, if I select a favorite that I didn't create myself as a named landmark it is transferred to the destination field. It doesn't seem to have a problem with points of interest that are defined by the map data.

If I go directly to the landmark on the map and select route to then it places the name I gave it along with the address in the destination field.

Rick
Dell X50v, ROM A03, 1GB CF&SD, WM2003SE, Std Video, Mapopolis v4.7RC4, NE Maps, Dell BT309 GPS

Edited by - RixPDA on 21 avr. 2006 02:24:46
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Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  00:16:02  Show Profile
Your log shows 6 crashes over the course of 8 minutes. Since you asked about GetLastError, I will break down all the info in the first crash report, as an example to explain what this log information shows us...

quote:
Fatal Exception in Main Window Procedure
Program version: 4.71.01 Beta
Date and time: 2006-04-19, 19:40:05
The meaning of this much should be obvious.

quote:
WM message 32771
The WM message shows the highest level command Mapopolis was processing when it crashed. Up until now, all of the crash logs I have seen since later 4.6x betas have begun with WM message 32770 which is defined as WM_GPSUPDATE, which means that the background task which reads and processes GPS input has posted some updated data to the main window procedure, and now the main window procedure is making use of the new data, i.e. to repaint the map at the new position, etc. However, this one was WM message 32771, which is a NAVIGATION update, which means that GPS data has NOT changed, but something else has changed to necessitate redrawing the navigation panel.

Which panel mode did you have showing?

I see that the time was 7:40pm. Maybe that is pertinent. One of the cases where it can trigger a navigation update is after redrawing the map for night colors when automatically switching from day to night (or vice-versa). Was it the exact moment of dusk when this happened? Do you have the option turned on to automatically switch colors?

It's possible this gives us a clue about the GPS Update crashes. When a GPS Update is running, it also has to perform a navigation update if a nav panel is showing, but it just does it - that is, it does not post a WM message to have it done later, so that part of the GPS Update process does not appear as a separate event under the crash log if something goes wrong. It's possible you have just narrowed down our problem to an error while repainting the navigation panel... for example, one obvious thought that jumps to mind is that if we try to draw past the bottom of the screen, then we are writing to a memory address that is past the end of the display buffer, which is a memory access violation, code 5...

quote:
WM Parms 0, 0
These are the windows message parameters, and their meaning depends on the WM Message. The problematic WM messages for us have been WM message 32770 (GPS Update) and now 32771 (Navigation Update) both of which are application-defined and do not use the parameters for anything.

All WM message codes less than 32769 (hex 0x8000 or binary 1000000000000000) are defined by Microsoft and most of them use the parameters, for example WM message 273 is WM_COMMAND which tells us there was a user command generated by executing menu commands and/or pressing toolbar buttons, in which case the WM parms indicate a numeric code for which command, for example Zoom In, Zoom Out, Show GPS Data Window, etc. This sometimes helps us narrow down what part of the program was running when it crashed, but not in this case.

quote:
Code 5
This is the "exception code" also defined by Microsoft to describe what kind of Fatal Exception occured. A Fatal Exception occurs when an application program like Mapopolis breaks the laws of programming and tries to do something it is not allowed to do (almost always because of a programmer's error). By far the most common is code 5 which is a "memory access violation" which means that Mapopolis tried to use a memory address it did not own. (I think I saw a code 6 once a long time ago, but I forget what code 6 means...) Memory access violations are critical in a multi-tasking operating system, otherwise the different programs you run at the same time would accidentally overwrite each other's memory and they would BOTH crash instead of just one.

quote:
Flags 0
These are the exception flags and can indicate more detailed information about the exception. I've never seen them non-zero, but hey, some day it might provide some useful clue.

quote:
Address 33195716
This is the memory address Mapopolis was running in when it crashed. One might think you could use this to find the line of code that failed, but alas no. The OS loads the program to a different "random" memory address every time you start the program, so without knowing the start/load address for this session, this memory address is not useful. Even with the starting address, the memory address of the exception is usually inside a library function which was CALLED incorrectly.

For example the statement "memcpy(0,0,0);" calls a library function to copy memory. It says to copy zero bytes of memory from address zero to address zero. Memory address zero belongs to the OS, not Mapopolis, so this will cause a memory access violation, code 5 exception, but the memory address of the last line of code to be executed before the exception will be inside the memcpy function, which may have been called from hundreds of different places throughout the Mapopolis code base... so even if we could use this memory address to find that it crashed inside memcpy, that doesn't tell us the critical logical error that happened some time before the crash in our own code...

quote:
XR Parms 0, 573046784
More extended information about the exception that may some day tell us a useful clue, but in general do not provide useful information.

quote:
GetLastError: 6
GetLastError is a Windows API (Application Programmer Interface) which returns the last error code encountered by any other Windows API. In this case, GetLastError 6 means "the handle is invalid" and later on you got GetLastError 120 which means "this operation is not supported on this system."

Unfortunately, in most cases, the GetLastError code in one our crash log reports is completely irrelevent because MOST Windows API functions are EXPECTED to fail under certain situations, and we have already checked for this failure and taken appropriate steps without always calling SetLastError(0) to clear the result from any future call to GetLastError().



After the first crash, it crashed 5 more times, most likely as a direct result of the first crash. After it crashes the first time, we give you a chance to "attempt error recovery" Let me explain briefly what that means... We reset a few critical pieces of data, and then we pretend than the error never happened. But we do not fully reset the entire state of the program, and it's likely that something is still messed up, because when it crashed, it never finished what it was in the middle of doing at the time, which leaves loose ends untidied... these loose ends are likely the cause of the subsequent 5 crashes you received.

quote:
Is it a good idea to do a soft reset before using Mapopolis, I think that would help memory errors, assuming I am getting them.
In theory a soft reset should not prevent memory errors because the complete memory usage state of a program is supposed to be wiped out, cleaned, and any problems fixed by the OS when it exits. In practice, sometimes programs leave the OS in a permamently broken state until you soft-reset. So unless you've had a crash in some program since the last time you soft-reset, it's unlikely that a soft reset would prevent memory errors, though it is very slightly possible that it can help. Sorry that's kind of a vague answer...

Anyway, bottom line here is that I think the 32771 may be a critical clue and we're going to take a good hard look at the nav pane code to see if we're going past the bottom of the screen in some cases or something like that. If you have had a crash like this, please let us know which Panel To Show was showing when it crashed.

Best Regards,
Ris

Project Manager for Windows Mobile Platforms
Mapopolis.com Inc

C Code; C Code Run; Run Code Run; Run Damnit Run!!
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joshua362

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  02:10:05  Show Profile
Hi Ris, thanks for the very detailed explanation. I certainally did not mean to cause you this much work!

Hopefully something good can come from the 32771 error explaination - I am fairly certain since I always use the smaller "navigation pane" almost 100% of the time and that was what was displayed at crash time. But doesn't it automatically go "large" size (about 1/2 the PDA screen) when a manuever is coming up (can't recall)? Maybe this is a clue since my crashes seem to always occur just before/after a turn (when needed most!). And the map certainally zooms in automatically near an upcoming turn (unrelated?).

I'll certain pay much more attention to it now. I always leave it on the small navigation pane when routing since it just make sense to me (to show the next manuver and display as much map as possible).

Finally, I do not use the auto day/night color switching so you can rule that out.

Thanks and regards, Joshua

Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
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joshua362

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  16:00:32  Show Profile
PS - since I seem to get these on a regular basis, would it be benefical for me to run the diagnostic version? Is the detail contained in that log of greater help to you ? (Downside - I know its a lot to weed through to find the crash when it occurs). I'm glad to help in any manner. Joshua

Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
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Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  20:24:03  Show Profile
Hi Joshua, thanks for the continued info. I want to make sure I understand... When you say the "smaller navigation pane" do you mean literally the "Panel to Show > Navigation Pane" in the not "[X] Large Format" (i.e. small) format? Or do you mean the smaller "Panel To Shown > Turn Reminder" panel, which is like a smaller version of the Navigation Panel?

quote:
But doesn't it automatically go "large" size (about 1/2 the PDA screen) when a manuever is coming up (can't recall)?
The [X] Large Format option does NOT turn itself on when a maneuver is coming up, however the option to "[X] Show Automatically" will switch it from the smaller Turn Reminder panel to the larger Navigation Panel when a turn is coming, and then back to Turn Reminder when the maneuver is complete.

So I have the idea that you run it in Turn Reminder panel mode most of the time (also my favorite mode) and then occasionally when it switches to Navigation Panel mode because of [X] Show Automatically and a turn coming up ahead, it will crash.

Are you using the "[X] Large Format" option ON or OFF?

If you're getting the problem on a regular basis, then YES, the diagnostic version would be very helpul.
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joshua362

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  22:07:19  Show Profile
Thanks for the message - Yes, I have "[X} Large Format" always OFF and navigate primarily using the "Panel To Show > Turn Reminder" mode most of the time. I just get to it differently, by using the hat switch to cycle through the various panel views (which I love). And the "[X] Show Automatically" is always enabled.

quote:

So I have the idea that you run it in Turn Reminder panel mode most of the time (also my favorite mode) and then occasionally when it switches to Navigation Panel mode because of [X] Show Automatically and a turn coming up ahead, it will crash.



This pretty much sums my normal navigation mode although I can't swear that the crashes are always triggered by upcoming turns. They seem to occur around "manuvers", most notably AFTER a turn and the resulting positive routing on course "ding" sound. But I've also had one in recent memory along a expressway some 20 miles in between turns, so go figure.

I will gladly install the diagnostic version, I have done so in the past but had problems with the version expiring in the middle of business trips.

Thanks & regards, Joshua

Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10
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joshua362

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  22:35:26  Show Profile
Ooops - I just intstalled the diagnostic version from the link on page 1, the PC installer version, installed it over the normal beta. When I went to run it, I got a wierd error message about an unexpected log (?) and then a "debug build expired" message, then termination.

Edit - did a fresh install of the cab version and got the same "debug build expired" message. Going back to the normal beta for the weekend.

Help?

Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10

Edited by - joshua362 on 21 avr. 2006 22:53:18
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lamar@mapopolis.com

USA
2508 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  23:00:58  Show Profile  Visit lamar@mapopolis.com's Homepage
Hi, Joshua,

I'm sorry I didn't catch this sooner. The debug builds have a short expiration life. I usually tell folks to wait until the NEXT beta version is posted to try it.

Lamar

"A journey is like marriage. The certain way to be wrong is to think you control it." –- John Steinbeck
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cgavula

USA
230 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  23:08:58  Show Profile
I have a question that I've seen at least partially mentioned, but it's a bug I've been running into for the last few revisions and I didn't see an answer in the forum yet, so I suspect there aren't a lot of us with this glitch.

The problem is that I get a GPS connection (I'm using an Emtac S3 BT Receiver and an HP 4705 running WM5) and once the connection is made I can ONLY get a N up view. Looking at the GPS page, I can see LAT/LON and altitue but nothing for heading and nothing for speed, no matter how fast I'm going. The icon on the map follows my position, but, as I said, the display is N up only and there is no arrow/pointer bulge to my icon - only the blue circle. Any idea what might cause this? This doesn't happen in TomTom or OCN 5 (among others) so I don't think it's a receiver problem/

Also - in earlier versions the fix was reported as Enhanced 3D (I'm assuming for DGPS support or WAAS support) but now it only ever shows 3D, the Enhanced never appears. Nothing has been changed on the receiver and other apps seem to use it correctly.

Anyone else seen this?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
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Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 21 avr. 2006 :  23:11:01  Show Profile
Oh yeah, sorry about that. This expiration issue comes up a little too much, so we'll extend it from two weeks to a month. I don't want to extend it further than that because after much time passes, we've usually made enough changes to the program that the older diagnostics are not useful anymore.
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RixPDA

USA
44 Posts

Posted - 22 avr. 2006 :  01:41:25  Show Profile
"Find" doesn't seem to work with named landmark favorites but does work with poi favorites from map data. Similar to my previous post concerning "Navigation". Can you confirm?

Rick
Dell X50v, ROM A03, 1GB CF&SD, WM2003SE, Std Video, Mapopolis v4.7.01, NE Maps, Dell BT309 GPS
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