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 PPC 4.71 "Fanfare" back up
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gordias

United Kingdom
137 Posts

Posted - 17 juil. 2006 :  12:38:49  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by lamar@mapopolis.com

Hi, Gordias,

Actually it was post about three pages back by you that mentioned "finger friendly menus" that made me think WHAT finer friendly menus. That's I found out that the wrong version got posted.


Damn, damn, damn, damn, damn. Sorry folks!

Vodafone V1620 WM2003SE / GlobalSat BT 338 GPS
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Lizard_weasel

USA
892 Posts

Posted - 17 juil. 2006 :  15:10:48  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by mswlogo
Yes, I tried it, you mean the startup menu with more items on it that you have to scroll. Didn't really think that much about it. It's really hard coming up with a "Big Button" UI that does evrything and does it without too many clicks. This really takes a total application design to apply it. I think Tom Tom did a nice job.

About the whole UI thing. I don't think you should be pecking the PDA while driving with any brand GPS. The one reason I stick with Mapopolis is I think it's synthetic voice is the best and allows me to keep my eyes on the road (same reason why I don't care about 3D views). So I have not minded the lack of a "Big Button" UI.

The app currently looks inconsistent. You want things done in a consistent way so users can predict where a feature will be even though they never used that feature. That takes some serious craftsmanship.

Mapoplis has some nice features. But you need to clean up what you have first before thinking about a new UI approach. My immediate knee jerk reaction to the startup menu is to always dismiss it (Even though it looks pretty) because it's different than the other menu's that do the same thing and (the application tends to default the old menus) and my brain likes to do things one way. I always hit View Map. Then use the software.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PPC-6700 WM5, Fortuna Slim GPS Sirf III Bluetooth. North America NE maps (MA and NH)



That would explain why I didn't see it....I never look at the front splash screen anymore.

Axim x51v, A12 ROM/Globalsat BT-338 Bluetooth GPS/2gb PNY SD card/2gb Kingston CF card/Mapopolis 4.71.05 with NE maps.
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rfsmithsr

USA
39 Posts

Posted - 17 juil. 2006 :  19:45:31  Show Profile
I've still got the "removed" program installed and it appears to be working without any problems. While the rotating menues are pretty slick I'm still not a fan of setting up routes while I'm driving. They do make it easier to setup a route but the large menu keys disappear after a few taps and then you are back to the regular menues. A nice option would be "rotating menues" or "regular menues". We'll have to see what the Real product looks like.

Ron Smith

4.71.05, North America NE Maps, hp iPAQ 5555, WM2003, 1 GB SD Storage, BlueLogger GPS
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Ris

USA
679 Posts

Posted - 18 juil. 2006 :  10:15:07  Show Profile
It's late at night and I'm bored not wanting to go to bed yet, so I thought I'd lurk here a little bit, and then thought hey, I might as well post a few words about my final release 4.71.05... (especially after reading all of your kind words on my goodbye thread )

There was only one release note for this one: fixes the crashes. Unfortunately, I see from skimming the last few pages that some people are still experiencing crashes. These should have at least been reduced in quantity. I will try to explain a little bit without getting too technical...

The short story is: it's Microsoft's fault. Just days before I left, I discovered a case where Microsoft's compilers are failing to follow the C++ spec correctly. This error occurs in such a way that C++ objects' destructors may be called twice, resulting in dynamically-allocated memory getting released twice. This leads to a corruption of the memory heap. Later, at any random time, that memory heap corruption comes back to bite us with a memory access violation, usually in the form of a failed dynamic memory allocation which returns a pointer to memory that is already in use instead of actual newly allocated memory, which is bad.

I had found only one case where this was occuring - the root case, where the destructor was being called twice. A function parameter was passed by value, but some optimization was being applied to share that object and pass it by reference rather than create a copy. The reference was deleted, and then the original was also deleted... but they were the same object, so the same memory was freed twice, thus the problem. A copy should have been made so that the copy would be deleted, and then the source object also deleted, which would have been OK. Instead, the same object was deleted twice, BY THE COMPILER (read: Microsoft's fault) I changed the code to avoid the possibility of this happening, and thought that my final release would be safe from this compiler bug, but alas, if anyone is still experiencing crashes, it seems like a possibility that this bug is still effecting the software from some other function call.

However, I was not able to find any additional offending function calls that were triggering this compiler error after a thorough search, and I really think that my final release 4.71.05 is the best ever, and it's the one I would recommend as the safest and best version you can get for now.

/End lurking for today

Best Regards,
Ris

Not affiliated with Mapopolis - just a guy.

Mobile Crossing Waypoint 200, PPC 2003 First Edition
Mobile Crossing BlueTooth GPS
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mswlogo

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 18 juil. 2006 :  13:57:48  Show Profile
Ris,

Do you have example code that fails outside the context of mapopolis?
That's the only way to really prove to yourself you have a compiler bug.
Other bad behaving code can cause havoc on the heap and the debugger.
I can't tell you how many times I thought I found a compiler bug and later to find, oops it's me.
There was a reason why Java and C# was created. C++ can bite you to many ways.
I like Java better because it has less "clever" tricks than C# (by design). Like no destructors period.
I also learned over the years you cannot release C++ code with out Purify and/or Bounds Checker
(Which I don't believe exists for CE platform). Ooh wait Purify does exist for CE, have you ever run it or anything like it?
There are quite a few cases that can cause a destructor to get called twice.
Most of the time the compiler "bug" is that it failed to flag code that will cause trouble (because C++ was too complicated to catch the zillion ways you could do things).

http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=%22destructor+called+twice%22

P.S. I would have PM'd this but you're not PM-able. Neither am I.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PPC-6700 WM5, Fortuna Slim GPS Sirf III Bluetooth. North America NE maps (MA and NH)
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JakeRich

USA
584 Posts

Posted - 20 juil. 2006 :  14:23:07  Show Profile
I am beginning to see some strange behavior with the latest version of the beta. I run with BT off most of the time, turn it on when I need it for Mapopolis. If I forget to turn it on before I start Mapopolis, no problem, I just start it and we're good to go. That was how it used to work.

Now, however, if I fail to activate wireless before starting Mapopolis it goes through the "Press the wireless button.." routine but the wireless doesn't actually start. If I try a second time, not only does it not start, it kills the BT manager and I have to do a soft reset to get it back again. I'm wondering if Mapopolis is now stepping on the BT manager somehow when it didn't used to do that. If I do remember to start BT first, I don't have any problems.

Dell Axim X50v, WM2003SE, starting with about 22 Mbytes of program memory available.
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joshua362

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 20 juil. 2006 :  16:49:28  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by JakeRich

I am beginning to see some strange behavior with the latest version of the beta. I run with BT off most of the time, turn it on when I need it for Mapopolis. If I forget to turn it on before I start Mapopolis, no problem, I just start it and we're good to go. That was how it used to work.

Now, however, if I fail to activate wireless before starting Mapopolis it goes through the "Press the wireless button.." routine but the wireless doesn't actually start. If I try a second time, not only does it not start, it kills the BT manager and I have to do a soft reset to get it back again. I'm wondering if Mapopolis is now stepping on the BT manager somehow when it didn't used to do that. If I do remember to start BT first, I don't have any problems.

Dell Axim X50v, WM2003SE, starting with about 22 Mbytes of program memory available.



I think I see what you experience, as I can't turn on the BT from the side hardware button on the side in the normal map display. But I went to the Tools>GPS page and could turn it off/on at will with the side hardware button. Maybe a good thing by design, who wants to accidently turn off the BT while navigating?

Thanks for the input on your Dell x50v - I'm very similar, using vBar to switch/manage kill apps and Launcher to open programs from the Today screen and 25MB free before starting Mapopolis.

I wonder if the map version differences has something to do with it - I can't say 100% for sure but I don't recall having these crashes until the 07/"G" series. I've been buying maps since 2002, the 03/"C" series, I think. Doesn't seem logical but could it be possbile? Lamar? Thanks.

Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10, 4.71.05 beta, NGC / 07 Maps
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lamar@mapopolis.com

USA
2508 Posts

Posted - 20 juil. 2006 :  19:59:10  Show Profile  Visit lamar@mapopolis.com's Homepage
Well, I'm not going to be great help with this one. From long habit, using both some buggy Palms and some buggy Pocket PCs, I always start the BT radio before starting Mapopolis.

Lamar

What I'm using now: Palm - LifeDrive and Treo 650, Pocket PC - Axim X50v, Smartphone - MPX200, NEW - Globalsat BT-328, consumer grade GPS with good performance and good price - Coming (borrowed) Motorola Q.

What the heart has once owned and had, it shall never lose.
~ Henry Ward Beecher
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rfsmithsr

USA
39 Posts

Posted - 20 juil. 2006 :  20:24:02  Show Profile
quote:
Originally posted by lamar@mapopolis.com

Well, I'm not going to be great help with this one. From long habit, using both some buggy Palms and some buggy Pocket PCs, I always start the BT radio before starting Mapopolis.

Lamar

What I'm using now: Palm - LifeDrive and Treo 650, Pocket PC - Axim X50v, Smartphone - MPX200, NEW - Globalsat BT-328, consumer grade GPS with good performance and good price - Coming (borrowed) Motorola Q.

What the heart has once owned and had, it shall never lose.
~ Henry Ward Beecher



Lamar

I have not had any crashes, lockups, etc. I always do a soft reset before connecting to my BT GPS, then I start the GPS, then connect.


Ron Smith

4.71.05, North America NE Maps, hp iPAQ 5555, WM2003, 1 GB SD Storage, BlueLogger GPS
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mswlogo

USA
109 Posts

Posted - 27 juil. 2006 :  01:07:32  Show Profile
I decided to go back to the released version 4.7. Although it didn't have some issues like 4.71 does, it's routing is completely messed up. It notified me a couple times right AT the turn instead of before (so I missed it). Another time it routed me into an infinite loop. I've never seen it do this.

Last version that I know that work was 4.6 on WM2003SE (other versions may be stable on WM2003SE too but I'm stuck on WM5 now)

Anyone know what is the most stable release on WM5?


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PPC-6700 WM5, Fortuna Slim GPS Sirf III Bluetooth. North America NE maps (MA and NH)
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guxu

USA
132 Posts

Posted - 28 juil. 2006 :  23:13:34  Show Profile
I am running latest 4.71 on my MDA WM5. No problem so far.

Edited by - guxu on 28 juil. 2006 23:14:57
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joshua362

USA
84 Posts

Posted - 29 juil. 2006 :  00:10:32  Show Profile
You know, I am going to jinx myself, but after 2 quick crashes once 4.71 came out, I haven't had a crash since. I've been running it daily to work (40+ miles each way) for 2 weeks now. But my vacation starts Sunday and I'll be going into unfamilar territory. I know it sounds illogical, but if its going to crash for me, it will be at the worst possible time. Otherwise, great version Ris, we miss you already. PS - just try DeLorme 2005 or MS Streets 2006 for the PDA just once and you'll be looking at Mapopolis in a whole new light.

Dell x50v, WM2003SE, 1GB CF & SD, Garmin BT GPS10, 4.71.05 beta, NGC / 07 Maps
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lamar@mapopolis.com

USA
2508 Posts

Posted - 30 juil. 2006 :  15:54:44  Show Profile  Visit lamar@mapopolis.com's Homepage
Hi, Joshua,

Have a safe trip. I put 550 miles on my X50V a couple of weeks ago with 4.71.x and no crashes. I hope it works for you, too.

Lamar

“Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone you may still exist, but you have ceased to live.” ~Mark Twain
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gordias

United Kingdom
137 Posts

Posted - 30 juil. 2006 :  18:28:24  Show Profile
I concur; I am driving around the US between Washington DC and parts of MD and so far, so good. Longer trip coming up....

Vodafone V1620 WM2003SE / GlobalSat BT 338 GPS
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spikoman

21 Posts

Posted - 07 août 2006 :  06:50:30  Show Profile
Hi,

I am using Mapopolis_Smartphone_v4.71.05.zip on a Audiovox SMT5600 and I got a bug report to file.

1) My screen won't turn off if I have mapopolis running.
2) Back lite won't turn off if I have mapopolis running
with "Auto-Start GPS" but no GPS hardware available.
3) Doing anything immediate after starting mapopolis with "Auto-Start GPS" on but no GPS hardware available will cause the program to get stuck.
- Turn on "Auto-Start GPS"
- Exit program and turn off GPS
- Restart application
- Go to "Find Address" immediately
- Wait about 5 seconds
- Press the down arrow (This will kick me out of the Find Address screen and into the map screen although the left smartbutton is now labeled Done instead "This Location")
- Go back to "Find Address" and I get a different "Find Address" screen. (Probably one from the PPC version if I had to guess) I can't type anything or get out of that screen. I usually have to kill the app via task manager.

I usually get stuck if I restart the app then go to "Choose Map", "Find Route", or the setup screens immediately. I can't reproduce the problem if I turn off "Auto Start GPS".

------------------
Audiovox SMT5600 + GlobalSat BT-338
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